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  1. #1
    Community Member SolarDawning's Avatar
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    Default The Solar Phoenix - Healing Amplification Paladin/Monk

    Preface:
    This is not an exhaustive guide on what feats, skills, and enhancements to take at each level. If you'd need to ask that, then likely the build is too complicated or gear-intensive for your level of play, and is not what you're looking for. I write this to have a proof-of-concept on paper (so to speak), and so that other players can follow my train of thought, and add comments of their own, or derive possible inspiration for their own characters.

    Goals of the Build:
    - To create a character capable of fully healing his/herself easily via resources which are renewable without resting, primarily through the use of Fists of Light's Healing Curse, and the Healing Ki finisher.

    You rush into battle without fear. Though unarmored and armed only with your small kama blades, you relish in the harm dealt to you by your enemies, knowing that each blow you take is one your allies do not have to... and the shock of seeing your wounds heal before their eyes as you fight surely shall unnerve even the fiercest of foes.

    Race and Level:
    Human 12 Paladin/ 7 Monk/Rogue 1

    -Reasoning for Race and Levels:
    The main reason for Human is for the Human racial line of Healing Amplification enhancements, which contribute significantly to the main purpose of the build.

    Defensively, 12 Paladin allows for Devotion I-IV, and Paladin Hunter of the Dead II, both of which are key to the build. HotD II provides 20% Healing Amplification and immunity to negative levels, while Devotion IV increases the effect of Healing Ki. Also, of course, are the numerous other defensive benefits of the paladin class, such as Divine Grace and Aura of Good.

    Offensively, Paladin provides smites and Divine Sacrifice, which are key to this build's offensive damage, which admittedly will be weaker than other paladin builds, due to this build's use of kamas as primary weapons.

    (Note, this build opts to take a level of monk and rogue instead of having 14 paladin, and thus looses access to level 4 paladin spells, namely Zeal, which due to being a Sacred bonus to attack speed, is highly desirable. This build prefers the increased healing amplification available at monk 7, alongside Rogue 1's sneak attack damage and haste boosts.)

    Monk 7 provides Evasion, 20% additional healing amplification, second tier elemental stances and strikes, and most importantly, Fists of Light, which is this build's main source of healing.

    Rogue 1 provides 1d6+3 sneak attack damage and Haste Boost I, both of which are helpful to contribute towards damage in raid boss target situations. With proper gear and skill allocation, Rogue 1 also provides the ability to handle a good number of traps and locks throughout the game.

    Key Benefits of the Build:
    -Evasion.
    -High Saving Throws
    -Ridiculously excessive healing amplification. (approx. 401%)
    -A powerful self-centered AoE cure, which will heal the caster by 245 HP on average, and can be cast once every 9 seconds, using Ki, which is an easily renewable resource.
    -Constant healing while attacking an enemy. 4 or 8 per hit from Fists of Light and, when applicable, 4 from Lesser Vampirism on Dream Edge Kamas.
    -Capable and steady strength-based two weapon fighting melee damage.

    Starting Ability Scores: 36 Point Buy
    16 Strength
    15 Dexterity (With a +2 tome, this meets the requirement to take Greater Two-Weapon Fighting)
    14 Constitution
    12 Wisdom
    10 Intelligence (With a tome, this will allow for the use of Silver Flame favor healing potions without self-incapacitation from ability score damage.)
    14 Charisma (With a +2 tome, this will allow for Paladin Divine Might II)

    Final Ability Scores:
    (Note. These scores include +2 tomes, which are easy for me to acquire. They do not presume any higher tomes.
    Only permanent scores are included, not temporary buffs.)

    34 Strength. (16 base + 1 Racial Enhancement + 5 Level Up +2 Tome + 6 Item +2 Sun Stance, +2 Exceptional [on a mineral II kama or ToD ring] )
    24 Dexterity. (15 base + 1 racial enhancement +2 Tome +6 Item)
    22 Constitution. (14 Base + 2 Tome +6 Item)
    20 Wisdom: (12 base -2 Sun Stance +2 Class Enhancement +2 Tome +6 Item)
    12 Intelligence: (10 Base +2 Tome)
    24 Charisma: (14 base +2 tome +6 item +2 Class Enhancement)

    Monk Stance: Fire.
    This build will remain in Fire Stance most, if not all, of the time. This will provide exceptional Ki generation, allowing for no difficulty in repeated use of Healing Ki.
    Additionally, this will enable the Jidz-Tet-ka bracers to provide +25% Healing Amplification.

    Feats:
    11 feats in total, including 1 Human Bonus Feat and 3 Monk Bonus Feats.
    I have not yet planned out the specific feat allocation, but this build has no shortage of feats for everything of use.

    -Desired Feats-
    Two Weapon Fighting
    Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Power Attack
    Toughness
    Improved Critical: Slashing
    (And five more still! Suggestions welcome. Multiple Toughness would not be terrible in this build, as they provide more time alive to receive a heal.)
    -Possible Additional Feats-
    There is a great deal of flexibility here, and you can take whatever you enjoy to further customize your character.
    Possibilities include some of the following:
    Lightning Reflexes (This build has evasion and will have a very decent Reflex save already... making it useful to have even more to insure that you don't fail that roll except on a 20.)
    Extra Turning (Four more Divine Mights or Restorations per rest)
    More Toughness (It never hurts.)
    Extend Spell (You don't have too many buffs, but you could always extend them.)
    Empower Healing (Should you find the need or desire to use any Paladin cure spells, this could increase their effectiveness further.)

    Healing Amplification:
    This is the primary mechanic of the build.
    Here are its sources of healing amplification:
    30% - Human Racial Enhancements
    20% - Hunter of the Dead II
    20% - Monk Class Enhancements
    10% - Dragontouched Eldritch Rune
    20% - Dragontouched Tempest Rune
    25% - Jidz-Tet'ka (See "Required Items", below)
    30% - Greensteel/Dream Edge Kama

    Total: Approx. 401% Healing Amplification.

    Healing Ki:
    10d4 = 25 average.
    +40% Paladin Devotion IV = 35
    +75% Superior Ardor 1 potion = 61.25
    61.25 multiplied by 4.01 = 245 average healing. (Presuming that Jidz-Tet'ka, which is as of yet untested, stacks multiplicatively as do all the other sources of healing amplification used)



    Required Items:
    -Dragontouched Vestments or Robe: 10% Healing Amplification from Eldritch Rune, 20% Healing Amplification from Tempest Rune, Sovereign rune property of your choice.
    -Jidz-Tet'ka Bracers (NOT IN GAME YET, coming in next patch. Bind to Account, level 5 minimum to use, available from level 8 quest series)
    -Kamas: 30% Healing Amplification, either on a Greensteel Kama (Potentially a Concordant Opposition II, which would be helpful on the build for reasons both including the HP and SP proc chance, and the slot condensation from free bonus +6 wisdom), or on Dream Edge. Other kama is DPS-kama of choice, or current preference. Likely choices include Greensteel Mineral II, Greensteel Lightning II.

    Armor Class:
    AC is not a consideration of this build, as the build instead relies on self-healing and healing amplification. Regardless, the build can muster a moderate AC without too much difficulty, due to a moderately high dexterity combined with the wisdom bonus from monk levels and Aura of Good.


    ***PLEASE NOTE***
    This is only an initial concept, not a final build. Suggestions and feedback are welcome, and I may revise it in the future. Thank you in advance for any ideas. Additionally, I hope that the ideas fleshed out here are of use to some of you in your own build concepts.
    Last edited by SolarDawning; 03-22-2010 at 11:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member sinedist's Avatar
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    Heya! Beautiful idea.

    I know the 1d6+3 SA and the minor haste boost from Rogue are nice, and so are the skills... but if you opt for a 12/8 split you can gain a nice boost to your unarmed damage. The +1 BAB, and +1 to all saves are pretty as well. 1d10 (unarmed) sits a lot nicer on a build than 1d4 (kama), and you'd be able to gain a lot more sitting in Earth Stance with the new Bracers coming out of House D. 4/DR-, +2 Blocking AC, and 2d6 damage? Very nice.

    You'd also benefit beautifully from a Cleric Past Life feat on this, which might be something to think about. That's a nice stack of backups should the occassion arise.

    The reason I say you opt for 8 monk levels instead of 7 and 1 rogue is because your DPS will be nicer with that 8 monk. Given that you will be in instances where you are simply outlasting your opponent, that tiny haste-boost from rogue is going to be both very minimal and short lived and the chances are everyone else will be dead so you'll have that aggro.

    I love the concept for this build, and I think it'd be the build if there ever was a build where one character is the last character standing, noodling that enemy down without the risk of dying. Because I imagine that's the case, I don't feel that you'd get the most out of the SA since it simply won't be there when the enemy is focused on you. I'd drop the kamas and switch to unarmed.

    But that's just my opinion, of course.
    Last edited by sinedist; 03-21-2010 at 02:27 AM. Reason: For sense's sake. And to flesh out my point just that little tiny bit more.

  3. #3
    Community Member Marr0w1's Avatar
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    While I agree with your points on unarmed damage (as my main is an almost exclusively unarmed monk) I can see that he is relying on using the Kama slots for GS properties such as Concordant Opposition, and healing amplification, as well as lesser vampirism from dream edge.

    While base damage and attack speed are higher with unarmed, there is no replacement for Two weapon slots worth of GS effects, and current handwraps leave a lot to be desired, compared to say, a LitII GS and Vorpal Dreamedge combination

    All in all, I really like this build (and may be tempted to steal it someday, as I have access to 36pt builds with monk/sorc past lives, heheh)

  4. #4
    Community Member sinedist's Avatar
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    I hear you, Marrow, but here's where I'm coming from:

    Even with 8 monk you can still use those kamas whenever you want; however, there are several important reasons for going monk 8.

    - Access to the first tier of a Monk PrE, which may be quite beneficial -- especially if there are bonuses to stances other than Wind II since this would be a perfect build to reap the solid benefits of Fire or Earth Stance which I feel will be getting bonuses in either Henshin or Shintao PrEs.

    - Chances are you will spend most of your time in a party, which means you will be serving as a very self-sustaining addition to the group. In this situation it would be more beneficial to tack on the DPS rather than the need to not be healed. When sleet hits the fan those kamas can be pulled out to make sure this character is the difference between a party wipe or not, but in that situation you won't be getting any SA... meaning that rogue level won't be helping anyway.

    - There will be new handwraps dropping. There has to be... the monk community is absolutely furious about the state of named handwraps. There is at least here a better chance for a really nice pair of wraps to synergize with this build than there is an even better kama than the dream edges. (I'm thinking a nice devotion bonus for an epic wrap, perhaps?)

    - You can always upgrade those ToD rings for a nice boost to unarmed DPS... which is the only complaint one can really have for the build at this point... and the only place that it would be lacking. It's a niche build, so why limit one's self if one doesn't need to...

    You'll still have those kamas; it was the one level of rogue that I was suggesting might want to be re-thought.

  5. #5
    Community Member nicro's Avatar
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    Are you including superior potency and the devotion enhancements in your calculations?
    Last edited by nicro; 03-21-2010 at 05:32 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member SolarDawning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicro View Post
    Are you including superior potency and the devotion enhancements in your calculations?
    I'm including a Superior Ardor I potion from the House P potion vendor in the Healing Ki calculation. They are cheap, and add 75% to the effect, and do not require an item slot.

  7. #7
    Community Member SolarDawning's Avatar
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    Thank you for the ideas, Sinedist. 12/8 was a level split that I was considering, but had ultimately dismissed. That's not to say it's a bad idea- the rogue level is not vital, and could be used for just about anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinedist View Post
    Even with 8 monk you can still use those kamas whenever you want; however, there are several important reasons for going monk 8.

    - Access to the first tier of a Monk PrE, which may be quite beneficial -- especially if there are bonuses to stances other than Wind II since this would be a perfect build to reap the solid benefits of Fire or Earth Stance which I feel will be getting bonuses in either Henshin or Shintao PrEs.
    I'd like to point out that PrE enhancements are first available at level 6, not 8. Thus, when they are released, the build could take a monk PrE, if one fits.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinedist View Post
    - Chances are you will spend most of your time in a party, which means you will be serving as a very self-sustaining addition to the group. In this situation it would be more beneficial to tack on the DPS rather than the need to not be healed. When sleet hits the fan those kamas can be pulled out to make sure this character is the difference between a party wipe or not, but in that situation you won't be getting any SA... meaning that rogue level won't be helping anyway.
    The rogue level is there for the purpose of increasing damage while in a party.
    Handwraps would actually provide lower DPS than Kamas for this build. Even if it had 8 monk and a past life feat (And thus giving up the sneak attack benefit from Rogue), that's just a 2d6 base damage die for unarmed damage. Greensteel kamas are already 1d8. In a group, the sneak attack from the rogue level alone makes up the difference there. Also consider the additional effects from the Greensteel weapons. Mineral II: +1d4 bleed damage, +2d6 holy, +1d6 acid blast, +2 exceptional ability bonus, metalline...

    Handwraps only compete if this character had upgraded two ToD rings with unarmed burst effects, which won't happen, as greater benefit could be derived from other bonuses on those rings, such as exceptional statistics.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinedist View Post
    - There will be new handwraps dropping. There has to be... the monk community is absolutely furious about the state of named handwraps. There is at least here a better chance for a really nice pair of wraps to synergize with this build than there is an even better kama than the dream edges. (I'm thinking a nice devotion bonus for an epic wrap, perhaps?)
    Possible. But I prefer to plan for the known, rather than what we hope will be the case. If at some point they made greensteel handwraps available, I'd happily redo this build with that in mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by sinedist View Post
    - You can always upgrade those ToD rings for a nice boost to unarmed DPS... which is the only complaint one can really have for the build at this point... and the only place that it would be lacking. It's a niche build, so why limit one's self if one doesn't need to...

    You'll still have those kamas; it was the one level of rogue that I was suggesting might want to be re-thought.
    Unarmed would only be superior to kamas with upgraded ToD rings. Without those, a pair of greensteels is superior, and the bonuses on the ToD rings would regardless be better used for other things. I don't think the build's damage will be so lacking, in all truth.

    If I reincarnate into this, the base damage at 20 will look like: (1d8 (Greensteel Kama)+11 (32 str, the amount in the original post +2 exceptional) +2 monk past life +5 power attack +5 enhancement bonus.
    So 1d8+23+weapon effects, without any buffs or other considerations, such as set items. It's not really amazing, but not lacking, either. Add in sneak attack from the rogue level and Tharne's Goggles, and it'll do solid damage in groups and raids, even with those dinky kamas.

    Again, thanks for the input. Every idea helps me refine the build more!

  8. #8
    Founder Xyfiel's Avatar
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    Funny, I have been working on variations of the healing build for months and just yesterday updated with the new bracers.

    I currently am planning 15pal/3monk/2wizard. Taking quicken/max/emp/emp healing for 600+ cure serious for 60 sps, and 600+ from a heal scroll. Wiz2 gives scroll mastery and -5 sps/csw from the max and emp enhancements. I could get 500+% healing instead of 420% going 12/7/1, but I already will 1 shot heal/scroll heal myself.

    I came up with the same item setup, I could hit 65 AC, but gear and enhancements were too tight so gave that up. 10+20% had to go on DT, and 30% on weapon, and figured CO was the best idea there also. I didn't factor in finger necklace since need to wear torc.

    Scratch notes from the build, not certain on all of the math
    10%=dt
    20%=dt
    30%=human
    10%=monk
    25%=bracers
    30%=weapon
    20%=hotd
    5%+5%+5%=pl
    4.2

    greater regen=2/15sec*4=8/15sec
    fists of light=4/8 per hit
    csw=31.5*1.4devo*1max*.5e*.5eh=138.6*4.2=582 85sps-5sps=80*75%=60sps
    heal scroll=110*.25*4.2=577
    csw wand=112
    csw pot=90
    I show hitting low 600's on hps, so they become 1 shot heals basically. Just wish I had time to make it.

  9. #9
    Community Member SolarDawning's Avatar
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    Xyfiel: You know what they say about great minds...

    I jotted up builds for a bunch of different variations of this, too, settled on this one as the one I'm going to reincarnate into next week. =)
    A friend is going to start up a human healing amp based monk, and we're going to duo through everything.
    A pair of healing amp based characters splashing Healing Ki bursts around constantly should be fun to see.

  10. #10

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    With the extra feat room, why not consider some meta-magics? I've seen people report that Empower Healing works on Healing Ki, at the very least. I'm guessing Maximize might, too. If that's the case, your *base* Healing Ki value to the party becomes 61.25 * 2.5 = 153.125, and turns into a 600+ point healing ki on yourself?

    Can anyone confirm/deny whether Maximize works on healing ki? Either way, Empower healing seems like a no-brainer.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Dark-Star's Avatar
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    Maximize does not. I have not tested emp healing, but would be surprised if it did.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Depravity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cforce View Post
    With the extra feat room, why not consider some meta-magics? I've seen people report that Empower Healing works on Healing Ki, at the very least. I'm guessing Maximize might, too. If that's the case, your *base* Healing Ki value to the party becomes 61.25 * 2.5 = 153.125, and turns into a 600+ point healing ki on yourself?

    Can anyone confirm/deny whether Maximize works on healing ki? Either way, Empower healing seems like a no-brainer.
    I'm pretty sure it doesn't *wanders off to firre up the pally mutt*
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  13. #13
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    What stats would you sacrifice as a 32-pt build? Also, what about a halfling with Dragonmarks? Give up human healing amp and bonus feat, gain extra self-heal abilities - would it be worth the tradeoff?

  14. #14
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    Pulling some data from a few days ago from this thread http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=238130&page=2

    Quote Originally Posted by Logic View Post
    So running some maximum numbers for a human 14 paladin/6 monk

    light/light/light finisher with 40% paladin healing enh and 75% ardor will do
    25*40*75 = 61.25 on average

    Maximum healing amp asumming you put finger necklace on before other gear
    Human 1.3
    Undead Hunter II 1.2
    Monk Enh 1.1
    Item (10+20+30) 1.1*1.2*1.3
    Bracer 1.25
    Paladin past life x3 1.15
    Finger Necklace 0.1
    (1.3*1.2*1.1*1.15+0.1)*1.1*1.2*1.3*1.25 = 4.447

    Also with 12 paladin/8 monk you could pick up 10% more healing amp, but would lose zeal.

    But for 14 paladin/6 monk light/light/light finisher would do 61.25*4.447 = 272 on average to self

    And then there's crits too, but I'm not sure how those work (I'm not sure what base crit chance and multiplier is for light/light/light finisher).
    With flurry of blows and zeal with a 14 paladin/6 monk you could still get 2nd tier wind stance and your unarmed attacks (1d8, 1d10 with monk past life?) would be about 20% quicker than 12/7/1 with kamas. But 12/7/1 with kamas (dream edge) sure would be nice for healing, but maybe a little less damage than unarmed. Kamas also give you nice GS options. But 14/6 gives you the ability to use weighted handwraps with zeal for epic content. Hmmm a lot of different options with 12 paladin and 6 monk :P

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Star View Post
    Maximize does not. I have not tested emp healing, but would be surprised if it did.
    MrCow said that none of the metamagics work with the light/light light finisher :[

    MrCow knows everything...

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logic View Post
    MrCow said that none of the metamagics work with the light/light light finisher :[

    MrCow knows everything...

    Bummer. I saw someone else post that Emp. Healing worked with Healing Ki, but I'd generally take Mr. Cow's word over anyone else on the forums -- suggestion withdrawn!
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarDawning View Post

    36 Point Buy
    15 str
    16 dex
    14 con
    14 wis
    8 int
    14 cha
    From what I am reading it seems that dex/wis AC based chars are pointless in epic content (unless you can get AC into 90's). People were telling me yesterday to just go str/con for epic content. They explained it all in this thread http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=238469

    So maybe start with higher str, con and lower dex/wis? I donno I haven’t hit 20 with my monk yet.

  18. #18
    DDO Catalog MrCow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarDawning
    Offensively, Paladin provides smites and Divine Sacrifice, which are key to this build's offensive damage, which admittedly will be weaker than other paladin builds, due to this build's use of kamas as primary weapons.
    If this is where part of your damage is coming from then it is prudent to keep the kamas. Currently, unarmed strikes (monk style or not) only fire off a single fist attack for Exalted Smite and Divine Sacrifice, even if you have the Two Weapon Fighting feats.

    Quote Originally Posted by cforce
    Bummer. I saw someone else post that Emp. Healing worked with Healing Ki, but I'd generally take Mr. Cow's word over anyone else on the forums -- suggestion withdrawn!
    Empower Healing is one I never tested Healing Ki with. I've played with Maximize, Extend, and Empower, which don't work on ki finishers anymore, but there does lie the possibility that for some reason Empower Healing may still work on Healing Ki (which, by the way, would be a bug in the current state of affairs).
    Last edited by MrCow; 03-22-2010 at 02:06 PM.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Depravity's Avatar
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    This would have been faster/more complete, but my DSL is afraid of lightning.

    Fired up my pally mutt (15 pal/3 monk/2 wiz), who happens to have empower and maximize. Devotion IV, HotD II, human healing amp III, monk healing amp I, and 10% on DT robes.
    Got halfway through and realized I was wearing Torin's choker, so I had superior potency going.
    Sat in the lobster alternately casting ardor on myself, meditating, doing little showoffy combat moves, and farting out clouds of healing ki. Not as many sample points as I'd really like, but it was boring.


    Code:
                           Empowered   Empowered
    Sup Pot VI  Sup Ardor  Sup Pot VI  Sup Ardor
            78        133          89        121
           108        104          89        125
            97        129         133        133
           108        104         114        133
           125        121          97        133
           108        100          93        139
           108        110          74        125
            85        110          81         85       
           100        114         104        100
           125        121         108        118
    avg    104.2      114.6        98.2      121.2
    Overall avg w/ Sup Pot VI: 101.2
    Overall avg w/ Sup Ardor: 117.9
    These are roughly what I'd expect: 175/150 = 1.1666....

    Empower values swung outside the unempowered numbers, both high and low, so I would surmise that it had no effect on things.

    I'd also like to point out that there seems to be evidence against healing ki using Turbines patented "magic" dice that are half static (ie 1d4 would become 1d2+2);
    74 / (1.3*1.2*1.1*1.1*1.9) ~= 20.6
    There's also a problem in my math, somewhere, in that:
    20*(1.3*1.2*1.1*1.1*1.9) ~= 71.7 and
    21*(1.3*1.2*1.1*1.1*1.9) ~= 75.3

    So something isn't stacking the way I think it's stacking. I tried rounding after multiplying 20 and 21 by the output amps (1.5 for potency, +.4 for devotion), then the healing input amps, but no such luck. I'll try her out on a tavern heal later to see if I can figure it out.
    ###EDIT###
    Logic pointed out that devotion & ardor are additive, not multiplicative. Fixed that part of the math
    tavern heals are coming a point or two off of what I'd expect.
    #####
    Last edited by Depravity; 03-23-2010 at 05:14 AM. Reason: Bleah, mathed the wrong math with the wring math. Smurfy.
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  20. #20
    Community Member SolarDawning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    What stats would you sacrifice as a 32-pt build? Also, what about a halfling with Dragonmarks? Give up human healing amp and bonus feat, gain extra self-heal abilities - would it be worth the tradeoff?
    If I were doing this on a 32-pt build, I'd take the points out of charisma. Charisma really isn't essential at all, it just boosts a few things from your paladin levels, such as saving throws and to-hit on Smite attacks.

    I don't see a dragonmarked halfling working as well as Human for this- The great thing about healing amplification is that, due to the multiplicative stacking, the more you have, the better it becomes. The point of the build is to have renewable sources of healing (Healing Ki), with paladin spells/wands/Lay on Hands as backup when needed. Halfling marks just add more limited use backup healing, which isn't so essential as you already
    have so much.

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