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  1. #21
    Community Member kingfisher's Avatar
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    i almost forgot

    also, ya'll care about folks getting out or not? i mean you give them an option if they cant figure it out ****'em

  2. #22
    Community Member Sirea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samadhi View Post
    Ya this too if releasing is too complex.

    TBH I doubt this guy was in either of our runs just because we had so many repeated instructions to leave (and so many pugs did successfully leave) that anyone with even the barest grasp of how to type (as coming on the forums shows he does) would not have questioned what happened IMO.

    And for that rogue, is this the one that complained that we finished after I had looted, got end reward, dropped group, And had finished selling? Ya... I find it hard to believe that is lag. If it is, typing something like "hey i'm lagging an absurd amount please give me an extra minute to get out" would probably work wonders. Accepting rez's? Sounds like he's not lagging that bad :P
    I was just wagering a guess that he might have been in our group because the situations and timing sounded similar.
    * Sohryu * (Life #25: 13 BRD / 1 FTR / 1 ROG)
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  3. #23
    Community Member Sirea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingfisher View Post
    i almost forgot

    also, ya'll care about folks getting out or not? i mean you give them an option if they cant figure it out ****'em
    That's funny because I was thinking of that song when I made the thread (as if it wasn't obvious enough)
    * Sohryu * (Life #25: 13 BRD / 1 FTR / 1 ROG)
    Completionist // Epic Completionist // Triple Iconic Completionist
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  4. #24
    Community Member wamjratl1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draccus View Post
    When I was TR-ing, I managed to completely avoid PUGs for the vast majority of my leveling. The one time I ran with a partial PUG was Sleeping Dust. It was bad from the start. One guy, a fighter with a two-handed sword, wouldn't listen to typed or spoken instructions.

    Dresek: "Don't kill the spiders, OK?"

    *fighter attacks a spider*

    Maveriq: Dude stop attacking the spiders!

    *fighter attacks a spider*

    Other Party Member in Party Chat: Don't kill the spiders!

    *fighter attacks a spider*


    Dresek, Maveriq, and Other Party Members: "Hey LeetMastahKillah, Don't kill spiders! Stop attacking them or we'll fail!"

    LeetMastahKillah: "OK, sorry."

    You have killed a spider!

    Dresek: "Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. One of the requirements of this quest is that we don't kill more than five spiders. You've already killed one so please stop attacking them or we'll fail the quest."

    You have killed a spider!

    Dresek: "I have a better idea."

    Dresek kills a spider
    Dresek kills a spider

    You have failed the quest!

    "Well, looks like we failed. Sorry guys, good luck." Leave group. Reform without pug. Finished quest.
    Fixed (unless this was a different run in which case there are way too many spider-haters on Ghallanda.)
    Maveriq Wiley... Benefaqtor... Spyqe... Masqot Von Chaedence...
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  5. #25
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    Yep, tis frustrating for sure.... You try and help people out, you try and lead a raid... You ask does everybody knwo the quest? Does everybody have voice or at least ears? Does everybody understand english? And you still get the instuctionally challenged.... Or the assinine... I actually had a guy tell me in party chat while running Rainbow.... "Can you type out instructions, I'm jamming to Gun N' Roses, so I can't hear you" Can you guess what I said..... I would've booted him, but we were already inside

  6. #26
    Community Member Samadhi's Avatar
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    Folks being off ears actually doesn't bother me unless it is like Tower elite or something else suitably requiring a good deal of instruction (i.e. not some easy sidequest) and provided that they let the party know. Some people have trouble hearing me on VC so I have gotten used to typing anyway, because I want there to be no misunderstanding when I am leading a party. And especially for ESL folks, the typing makes it easier for them to understand what I'm saying.
    sravana, kirtana, smarana, dasya, atma-nivedana
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  7. #27
    Founder THAC0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wamjratl1 View Post
    Fixed (unless this was a different run in which case there are way too many spider-haters on Ghallanda.)
    Ran that quest a few nights ago... said don't kill spiders, both in chat and in party chat. Some 'person' dropped not one but several fire walls... fail.

    Dropped group, we regrouped (minus the offender), and completed without issue.

    Be nice if people read the little quest detail box in the upper right corner of their screen...

  8. #28
    Community Member Obmi's Avatar
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    Default but but

    but, I hate spiders !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. #29
    Community Member MomawNadon78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingfisher View Post
    weed man! its the weed!
    You ever see the back of a shine?

    You ever see the back of a shrine... ON WEED? Oh, there's some crazy ****, man.


    Side note: I just ran Shroud for the first time today. I've tried twice before and before joining the lfg, I sent a tell saying that it would be my first time running it and if they want more experienced people I can wait for another group. Which is what happened. Today I sent the same, and they brought me along. My mic port has broke on my lappie, so I'm stuck with typing, but I said 'tell me what to shoot and I'll not touch anything until told to do otherwise'. I find taking directions makes things so much damned easier.
    Last edited by MomawNadon78; 02-24-2010 at 09:36 PM.

  10. #30
    Community Member Sweetsoul86's Avatar
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    A couple of days ago a few of my guildies and I decided to run a reaver we had enough people for half a group and pug'd the other half of the people for the raid, a bunch of us were capped so should be a cake walk now that it has been nerfed right? Wrong. Several people kept attacking the reaver even though we were both typing and talking yelling and begging, "only one person should be fighting him, only Thadius should be attacking, ***Insert names here*** STOP ATTACKING you're not supposed to be attacking!!!" There were at least 3 of us begging them to stop and one guy finally gets the hint and stops but the other one just keeps going, I was homicidal by the end of that fight.

    The guy who eventually stopped turned out it was his first reaver ever and one of the other people in the party knew that but failed to give him instruction and the rest of us had no idea he was new to it. The other one never explained so I don't know if they were new or just stupid. When someone tells me they have trouble hearing, or are new or have no headset or whatever I'm always happy to accommodate because it means a better chance of success and less chance of an anxiety attack for me.

    If only we could all be so lucky as to have people tell us when they need help...would make a lot of peoples lives a lot easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sogrin View Post
    Please be advised that when dealing with Khyberians, do not take everything for granted, always expect the worse and maybe you'll survive the first 5 minutes of what some of us will do to you. ESPECIALLY Sweetsoul.

  11. #31
    Community Member Whippy's Avatar
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    Totally agree here OP. I am happy to have pretty much anyone in my group, new is totally fine, provided they listen. If there are people I don't know I always ask if its anyones first time, and you are right, invaribly noone speaks up. Sometimes people do though which is nice!

    Nothing frustrates me more than the pikers in part 3 of shroud... seriously why?

    A few weeks ago I joined a reaver pug, everyone looked pretty new (can usually tell by guild names etc) but I figured it was only reaver so why not... as soon as the group was full the leader pipes up with, 'this is my first time, someone else needs to lead it'. Well me being me said I would after a few seconds of noone else speaking up, and we went in and completed fine with my lead. As much as this annoyed me, cos if I wanted to lead a reaver I'd have put up my own lfm, at least it was better than if they hadn't spoken up that they were new.

    I think on another note there are a few people now who have done the quests so many times and are bored stupid they zone out instructions or go whack those orthons to make it slightly more interesting, not that i support this, but seen it a few times.


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  12. #32
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirea View Post
    What is the root cause of this? Arrogance? Ignorance? I'm seriously stumped on this. Why do people insist on acting in this manner? If someone says they are new right off the bat, I'm more likely to explain things as we go and less likely to get upset when something goes wrong. Is there someone that thinks "that halfling FvS can't possibly kite all those orthons! I know! I'll help!" and in trying to help actually makes things more difficult than they have to be? The examples go on and on.

    If anyone can explain this behavior to me, the dent in my desk from my head repeatedly making contact with it won't have to get any bigger.
    Lack of 2 way communication.

    I have seen that most of the people who are doing these types of things do not know the quest well enough, however, they have not alerted anyone to that fact due to being booted from previous groups for not knowing the quest.

    The formula for communication disaster is in place right now. There are ALOT of 1337157 Vets and ALOT of newer players who are now starting to get into the level 16-20 range more and more. Alot of Vets are now going with selective grouping and not allowing the new players with one high level toon into groups, or blacklisting them for one screw up. They are even checking MyDDO to see if their toon is gimped. The new players see this and dont admit to being a shroud newb in order to get into more PUGs, but clearly demonstrate it when they are in the quest.

    Its a 2 way communication issue - the VETS loathe the froobs for screwing up their 16 minute shroud runs and the froobs attempt to avoid being "discovered" until its too late. This puts the VETS who do try to communicate and invite PUGers at a disadvantage.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #33
    Community Member Sirea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Lack of 2 way communication.

    I have seen that most of the people who are doing these types of things do not know the quest well enough, however, they have not alerted anyone to that fact due to being booted from previous groups for not knowing the quest.

    The formula for communication disaster is in place right now. There are ALOT of 1337157 Vets and ALOT of newer players who are now starting to get into the level 16-20 range more and more. Alot of Vets are now going with selective grouping and not allowing the new players with one high level toon into groups, or blacklisting them for one screw up. They are even checking MyDDO to see if their toon is gimped. The new players see this and dont admit to being a shroud newb in order to get into more PUGs, but clearly demonstrate it when they are in the quest.

    Its a 2 way communication issue - the VETS loathe the froobs for screwing up their 16 minute shroud runs and the froobs attempt to avoid being "discovered" until its too late. This puts the VETS who do try to communicate and invite PUGers at a disadvantage.
    There are some times that I agree, that there is little communication in general then all hell breaks loose when stuff goes down the toilet. But am I really the one at fault if I ask if anyone's new and no one speaks up, even after I assure people that I won't get ****ed, I just want to know if I need to explain things as we go? I have no problem with people admitting that they are new, because I'm able to shrug off smaller mistakes easier than if I assume that the person on the other side of the monitor has a clue.

    If I'm told up-front that there is a new person in the party I won't feel so blind-sided when they pull a Leeroy Jenkins and run into a room full of trolls just to get beaten to a pulp. At least I can warn them that there are trolls in the other room and it might be smarter for someone else to go in first and establish aggro. I will say things like "Don't run through the middle" in Shroud part 2 if I'm aware that there is a new person, it does both them and the group a favor if I know to give them that heads-up.

    I feel like my thoughts are somewhat jumbled today so I hope that made a little bit of sense
    * Sohryu * (Life #25: 13 BRD / 1 FTR / 1 ROG)
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    Ravensguard (200) - Now in Flower Sniffer Lavender

  14. #34
    Community Member Atenhotep's Avatar
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    A running joke in my groups:

    "Ok, so we have to kill a minimum of five spiders to complete the quest, right?"

  15. #35
    Community Member zombieaon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingfisher View Post
    tumbleweed man! its the weed!
    never stopped me!

    well...most of the time
    ~zombi/zombiaeon/zombqi~
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  16. #36
    Community Member Samadhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    <snip>
    This isn't super focused on new folks, though, it is focused on people that don't listen - and asking why they don't. Here's the real question: Situation: anything, whether you are somewhat familiar, completely new, or ran it a thousand times. Do you ignore party instructions by doing any of the following:
    1) Kill anything that moves without hesitation or consideration
    2) Insist on buffs that are not even remotely needed
    3) Take over a party role already designated to someone else
    or do you do what the party leader typed?

    Just saying, just got out of a shroud where a wizard said right at the beginning that they were new. This wizard did fine and, since they indicated their newness, explanations were larger than normal. However, at least three other people in the party were responsible for all three of the things listed above. I would guess that this is really at the heart of what Sirea is saying. Nothing in regards to "new" folks necessarily; but a big "*** you are speaking english on your mic; but yet are completely ignoring all instructions.... what's the deal"
    sravana, kirtana, smarana, dasya, atma-nivedana
    ...NAMASTE...

  17. #37
    2015 DDO Players Council Daerius of the Blessed Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wamjratl1 View Post
    What's up with the water-pikers? They bug me most of all.
    Dang near as much as the portal pikers. I hate to see players, and it is usually clerics, standing there watching while everyone else swings away. Grrrrrrrrrr!
    Founder & Guild Leader, The Circle of Night (Ghallanda): Daerius (FvS), Branwynn (Brd), Fahrn (Pal), Khrandok (Bbn), et. al.The Circle of Night on Ghallanda recruits "uncommon men and women" to our guild ranks. Only mildly elite. Inquire Within...

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samadhi View Post
    This isn't super focused on new folks, though, it is focused on people that don't listen - and asking why they don't. Here's the real question: Situation: anything, whether you are somewhat familiar, completely new, or ran it a thousand times. Do you ignore party instructions by doing any of the following:
    1) Kill anything that moves without hesitation or consideration
    2) Insist on buffs that are not even remotely needed
    3) Take over a party role already designated to someone else
    or do you do what the party leader typed?

    Just saying, just got out of a shroud where a wizard said right at the beginning that they were new. This wizard did fine and, since they indicated their newness, explanations were larger than normal. However, at least three other people in the party were responsible for all three of the things listed above. I would guess that this is really at the heart of what Sirea is saying. Nothing in regards to "new" folks necessarily; but a big "*** you are speaking english on your mic; but yet are completely ignoring all instructions.... what's the deal"

    I have a friend in game who does the bolded constantly..... It does get annoying.....

    Depending group communication is key to things going smoothly. Sure when you're with people you run with allt he time, you "Know" what they're going to do. It's automatic... But when you're in a PuG or a group that you dont' run with a lot, the little thigns add up to a mess. Sure msot of the time it's no big deal a few extra minutes ro whatever, but at times it can send the whole bottle a fine single malt down the drain There are many ways to run most quests... If I join someone elses group I simply shut up and run it the way they want to, that is unless it's really stupid. I think though as a whole this issue is blown out of propartion. I mean with all the new players do peopel really have an expectation for things to be borked up. Seems about 25% of the new players listen and learn well, and grasp the game very quikly, around 3-4 months, 50% not so much are a little slower but at lest TRY. And that other 25%, well they're jsut not goign to ever listen, know everything, and need to have their stones dropped in some nice deep lava somewhere.


    It's about the same as it always has been, it's jsut that it's magnified with teh sheer number of new players.

  19. #39

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    specifically on the topic of leaving part 5 early, we've developed a bizarre little sub-culture around that, wherein it's the group's problem that you want to leave and folks leaving have somehow abandonded all responsibility to make that happen.

    important tip for everyone: you do not need to involve the group *at all* in your decision to leave. just leave. any time. hit recall. /death. cast a door. die and call out. think up something clever. funny 6th thing. go nuts.

    just don't tell me about it. it's not my problem. that one is all you.

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