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  1. #1
    Community Member blacklimoband's Avatar
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    Default Rogue/Monk assassin build check - critique pls

    I have been playing around in the CharGen tool with a few experimental builds. My aim is a toon with reasonable dmg and survivability, decent with traps/locks and excellent stealth/assassination... tried to balance between the 2 classes (hence the 16 wis + int and high conc/bal... dipl only added for aggro dump)

    Thoughts? I'm still getting my head around the mechanics of this game, and I haven't reached endgame yet, so I have no idea what would be needed for endgame raiding

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Solomai Kron'tyrr
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Drow Male
    (7 Monk \ 13 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 226
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 14\14\19\24
    Fortitude: 10
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 12
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             14                 14                   14
    Dexterity            16                 17                   18
    Constitution         12                 12                   12
    Intelligence         14                 16                   16
    Wisdom               14                 16                   16
    Charisma             10                 10                   10
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               6                 23                   24
    Bluff                 0                  0                    5
    Concentration         5                 22                   25
    Diplomacy             0                 12                   13
    Disable Device        n/a               20                   23
    Haggle                0                  0                    1
    Heal                  4                 12                   13
    Hide                  7                 21                   32
    Intimidate            0                  0                    1
    Jump                  2                  2                    3
    Listen                2                  3                    6
    Move Silently         7                 21                   32
    Open Lock             n/a               21                   24
    Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                  3                    4
    Search                2                 20                   26
    Spot                  6                 20                   26
    Swim                  2                  2                    3
    Tumble                4                 13                   14
    Use Magic Device      n/a               12                   13
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+3)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+4)
    Skill: Move Silently (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
    Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
    Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
    Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
    Feat: (Automatic) Drow Spell Resistance
    Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
    Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
    Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
    Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
    Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Club
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Crossbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Light Crossbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Quarterstaff
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Unarmed
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+3)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
    Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
    
    
    Level 5 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Meditation
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
    Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
    Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Harmonious Balance (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Inevitable Dominion (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+2)
    Skill: Move Silently (+2)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+2)
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Stealthy
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+3)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Magic
    Feat: (Automatic) Slow Fall
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist
    Feat: (Automatic) AC Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Damage
    Feat: (Automatic) Purity of Body
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse
    
    
    Level 16 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Wholeness of Body
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+2)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+5)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Diplomacy (+7)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost IV
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Elven Perception I
    Enhancement: Elven Perception II
    Enhancement: Elven Perception III
    Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
    Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes II
    Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes III
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose II
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Void Strike
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide III
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently III
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently IV
    Last edited by blacklimoband; 02-11-2010 at 07:36 PM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Firstly, if you're taking ANY rogue levels at all, ALWAYS take the 1st level as rogue so you can get a ton of extra skillpoints. Any INT ability raises should be done as early as possible too so as not to waste skillpoints.

    In general, most people say that if you want to go assassin, you should go all the way to 3rd tier for your "free" vorpal efect on sneak attacks, though with a good sneak skill the 2nd tier can still be effective, however enemies will save more often.

    Finally, I'd recommend taking halfling over elf - as an assassin type build you're going to be heading into melee a lot, and though there'll be a STR reduction you can still get 12 STR and 14 CON for the same point expenditure on creation, and halflings get enhancements that boost sneak attack damage, and they'll have a better to-hit to counter the reduction from power attack, plus a little better AC too. Unless you're specifically worried about will saves, stat raises would probably be better put in DEX rather than WIS too, for the same reason.

  3. #3
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    Take Rogue as 1st level - you currently loos out on many skillpoints for ZERO gain.

    Too many Monk levels, your Assassinate DC is based on thr number of Rogue levels - it wont land on your current build. Take 2 Monk levels max, or your assassinate gets too weak to be reliable.
    Also the usefullness of monk levels 3-7 is less than what you would get from going more Rogue.
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  4. #4
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctus View Post
    Also the usefullness of monk levels 3-7 is less than what you would get from going more Rogue.
    Depends on whether he'll be using centered weapons or not (ideal would be Kama for an assassin i think rather than fists or stick) - if yes, then 2nd tier wind stance will be a very useful constant attack speed boost, can switch out to water stance when save boosts are needed, the elemental strikes will boost dps, will get some nice buffs (short lived but non dispellable, including the very useful stun immunity, and aligning the heavens which is great for allied casters), the 2nd tier of an animal path can also give some nice benefits (clever monkey for some innate elemental resistance is my personal favourite to reduce the impact of a lot of irritating spells)

    If not using centered weapons... then yeah beyond 2nd monk level would be a waste.

  5. #5
    Community Member blacklimoband's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks for the insights there guys. From other builds I've seen the consensus seems to be 18/2 Rog/Monk, which suggests to me that full hybrid builds are too much compromise for little-to-no gain. Is there much benefit from only 2 lvls of monk though? What would be the ideal char lvls to add these at?

    In regards to feats, what changes would you suggest for a reasonable assassin build? I was actually thinking of dual-wield Kama for weaps

    I understand the reasoning behind the Halfling rogue idea, however I have a personal preference for Drow, mainly a flavor thing. Is there a better way to build an endgame viable Drow assassin? Should I still look at 12 str and 14 con with this race choice?

    I have read that listen is useless, is that correct? Is bluff any good?

    My build ideas were mainly based on my 3rd ed PnP experiences, which I understand are not entirely compatible (or viable) in DDO

    Again, thanks for your input
    Last edited by blacklimoband; 02-12-2010 at 09:44 AM.
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  6. #6
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    I'd say take the monk levels at 2nd & maybe 10th, the toughness feat will be very handy early on and power attack will only really be useful when you've got enough attack bonus from level, stats & equipment to counteract the penalty.

  7. #7
    Community Member captain1z's Avatar
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    I was gonna say that assassin 2 is mostly useless in group play and that assassin 3 was the way to go but it seems you are kinda going in that direction at this point anyway.

    That having to sneak restriction is a real downer.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Lleren's Avatar
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    The main benefit of a second level of Monk seems to be another "free martial feat" in a rogue/monk build. 1 more to all saves, and the ability to choose one of the "paths" ( Crane/Hound/Tortoise etc )

    19 rogue is another die of sneak attack damage and a fourth rogue special ability.
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  9. #9
    Community Member blacklimoband's Avatar
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    I've had another look based on the input from all of you (thanks for the advice too btw).

    I will stick with Drow as I'm willing to sacrifice the benefits of Halfling to have my personal favorite flavor.

    I am thinking this is a much more solid build, but there is no doubt still room for improvement, and any insights would be most appreciated, bearing in mind my goal of an assassin with reasonable damage/survivability and decent trap/lock skills:

    BTW, should I equip monk robes to take advantage of the low lvl monk bonuses and elemental attacks/combos (same reason for dual wield Kama), or would the AC hit be too excessive?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Solomai Kron'tyrr
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Drow Male
    (2 Monk \ 18 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 290
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 14\14\19\24
    Fortitude: 12
    Reflex: 18
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             14                 14                   14
    Dexterity            16                 18                   18
    Constitution         13                 16                   16
    Intelligence         16                 16                   16
    Wisdom               10                 10                   10
    Charisma             10                 10                   10
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               7                 27                   28
    Bluff                 4                 23                   30
    Concentration         1                  3                    4
    Diplomacy             0                  1                    2
    Disable Device        7                 26                   30
    Haggle                0                  0                    2
    Heal                  2                  6                    7
    Hide                  7                 27                   38
    Intimidate            0                  0                    1
    Jump                  2                  2                    3
    Listen                0                  0                    3
    Move Silently         7                 27                   38
    Open Lock             7                 27                   31
    Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                3                  3                    4
    Search                7                 26                   29
    Spot                  4                 23                   29
    Swim                  2                  2                    3
    Tumble                7                 27                   28
    Use Magic Device      4                 23                   24
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Bluff (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+4)
    Skill: Move Silently (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Drow Spell Resistance
    Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
    Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
    Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
    Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
    Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
    Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
    Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
    Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
    Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Meditation
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: CON
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: CON
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: CON
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost IV
    Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
    Enhancement: Void Strike
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device III
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide III
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently III
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
    Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
    Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock III
    Enhancement: Rogue Spot I
    Enhancement: Rogue Spot II
    Last edited by blacklimoband; 02-12-2010 at 11:43 PM.
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  10. #10
    Community Member AylinIsAwesome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacklimoband View Post
    I've had another look based on the input from all of you (thanks for the advice too btw).

    I will stick with Drow as I'm willing to sacrifice the benefits of Halfling to have my personal favorite flavor.

    I am thinking this is a much more solid build, but there is no doubt still room for improvement, and any insights would be most appreciated, bearing in mind my goal of an assassin with reasonable damage/survivability and decent trap/lock skills:

    BTW, should I equip monk robes to take advantage of the low lvl monk bonuses and elemental attacks/combos (same reason for dual wield Kama), or would the AC hit be too excessive?
    Bluff is a worthess ability. Drain Diplomacy instead. Hide and Move Silently are pretty weak too, and I think you'd get more mileage out of Jump and Haggle.

    For your Rogue bonus feats, either Crippling Strike or Improved Evasion first, then the other one, then Slippery Mind. Defensive Roll is useless, and Skill Mastery can be good for boosting UMD (though that's about it). (Some people would say Skill Mastery is better than Slippery Mind though).

    If you're going STR-based, your STR is too low (should be in the 16-18 range). For DEX-based it should be in the 18-20 range. You can pull points out of WIS and INT to do this. You want to be able to hit stuff.

    For your enhancements, all of these are worthless to you:

    Rogue Open Lock 1-3, Rogue Damage Boost 3-4, Rogue Move Silently 3-4, Rogue Hide 3-4, Rogue Spot 1-2, Void Strike, Elven Keen Eyes 1.

    Spend your APs on things that will benefit your build, like maxing Subtly Backstabbing and Haste Boost (best damage boost in the game, hands down). You might also want to pick up a level of Wrack Construct to help beat down Portals if you have the AP to spend. But before that you need to use Rapiers, since using Kamas will result in a net loss of DPS even in Wind Stance (when you've been Hasted) and pick up the Drow Rapier enhancements, particularly the damage ones. A level of Rapier Attack isn't bad either.

    (Also don't bother to take OTWF; it's worthless too.)


    *Disclaimer: I am extremely tired as I write this, so I'm sorry if it sounds rude or anything like that.

  11. #11
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    You can probably safely ditch mobility & spring attack in favour of the improved & greater 2wf feats too, will massively boost your dps from the extra attacks

  12. #12
    Community Member blacklimoband's Avatar
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    First, my most sincere apologies for the wall of text that follows I really appreciate all of your input on this, I can feel a good solid build is just around the corner

    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    Hide and Move Silently are pretty weak too
    I've seen a couple of comments to this effect. Is stealth broken or is it just not much use? I was mainly boosting these for the fact that my build is primarily focused on sneak attacks.

    What are the benefits from maxing haggle/jump? (Haggle I think I get, means more plat in my pocket, not in theirs)

    When I swap out Hide/MS for Haggle/Jump and swap Bluff for Dipl it comes out looking a little like this:

    Code:
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               7                 27                   27
    Bluff                 0                  0                    6
    Concentration         1                  3                    3
    Diplomacy             4                 23                   23
    Disable Device        7                 26                   29
    Haggle                4                 23                   24
    Heal                  2                  7                    7
    Hide                  3                  4                   12
    Intimidate            0                  0                    0
    Jump                  6                 24                   24
    Listen                0                  0                    2
    Move Silently         3                  4                   12
    Open Lock             7                 27                   27
    Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                3                  3                    3
    Search                7                 26                   28
    Spot                  4                 23                   25
    Swim                  2                  2                    2
    Tumble                7                 27                   27
    Use Magic Device      4                 23                   23
    
    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    If you're going STR-based, your STR is too low (should be in the 16-18 range). For DEX-based it should be in the 18-20 range. You can pull points out of WIS and INT to do this. You want to be able to hit stuff.
    DEX. It ends up at 18 by lvl 8. I can't really sacrifice INT because that's giving me a bucket-load of bonus skill points, maybe I could trim a couple from WIS, or buy a tome

    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    For your enhancements, all of these are worthless to you:

    Rogue Open Lock 1-3, Rogue Damage Boost 3-4, Rogue Move Silently 3-4, Rogue Hide 3-4, Rogue Spot 1-2, Void Strike, Elven Keen Eyes 1
    Most of these were filler to unlock Ass III. How's this look?

    Code:
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV
    Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device III
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    Feats:

    Code:
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
    Last edited by blacklimoband; 02-13-2010 at 08:32 PM.
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  13. #13
    Community Member AylinIsAwesome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacklimoband View Post
    I've seen a couple of comments to this effect. Is stealth broken or is it just not much use? I was mainly boosting these for the fact that my build is primarily focused on sneak attacks.
    You don't need to be sneaking to get in sneak attacks. The only time you really need to sneak is when you use the Assassinate ability. And to do that you can jump in behind the mob, hit sneak in the air and pop the ability, then tumble out to melee something else. Sneaking in combat is pretty much the worst thing a rogue can do (unless they're about to Assassinate something).

    What are the benefits from maxing haggle/jump? (Haggle I think I get, means more plat in my pocket, not in theirs)
    Haggle is more money, yep. Jump means you can jump higher, so jumping over enemies to get away from them, jumping onto ledges, ect. will all be in ability to do.

    DEX. It ends up at 18 by lvl 8. I can't really sacrifice INT because that's giving me a bucket-load of bonus skill points, maybe I could trim a couple from WIS, or buy a tome
    I meant starting out, not end modified. You're on a 3/4 BAB class, so having as high to-hit as possible is always nice, especially if you ever want to try epics. Also more DEX means a better reflex save, so more benefit from Evasion and Improved Evasion. No reason to only put 6 points into your primary stat. You can drop the INT with no real detriment, since you only need 1 point in Tumble to do it. More is just for fluff. You don't need full ranks in Spot either, since a moderate amount wil let you find mobs, and you'll honestly remember where the traps are in the quests you run a few times. You would also be able to pull a few points out of Open Lock since that skill is ridiculously easy to use.


    Most of these were filler to unlock Ass III. How's this look?
    I only named the ones that weren't required for Assassin. The ones that were I didn't mention.

    Though the new ones, I'd drop Disable Device 3 (maybe 2), since the only reason I would suggest picking any of those up would be to get Wrack Construct. You also didn't grab Drow or Rogue DEX enhancements, and on a DEX-based build I'd say that's pretty much required to get. If you drop Drow Melee Attack 2 and Disable Device 2 and 3, you'll be able to afford Drow DEX 1 and Rogue DEX 1 and 2. I'd suggest seeing if you can find a way to get Drow DEX 2 as well.


    Feats:
    Dodge is (quite literally) a wasted feat unless you're making an AC build. And even then Combat Expertise would be a better choice for you there. Perhaps Skill Focus: UMD would be better for you?


    Hope that helps.

  14. #14
    Community Member blacklimoband's Avatar
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    Aylin is most definitely Awesome Thanks a million for the tips. I'll have a bit more of a play with the builds tonight and see what I can come up with...

    Would dropping WIS to 8 and INT to 14 (so I can bump DEX to 18) be too much of a hit? Being Drow I don't actually need the extra WIS (racial bonus to will saves), and I think I would only lose 1 skill point per lvl (4 at lvl 1)
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  15. #15
    Community Member AylinIsAwesome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacklimoband View Post
    Aylin is most definitely Awesome Thanks a million for the tips. I'll have a bit more of a play with the builds tonight and see what I can come up with...

    Would dropping WIS to 8 and INT to 14 (so I can bump DEX to 18) be too much of a hit? Being Drow I don't actually need the extra WIS (racial bonus to will saves), and I think I would only lose 1 skill point per lvl (4 at lvl 1)
    It shouldn't be. The skill point loss can be made up for by shortchanging Tumble (you'll use a FF item anyway past level 8) and your Will save should be fine (for a Rogue). The racial bonus is only to Will-based enchantments though (Like Command) and won't save you from effects like the sickening effect from Unholy Blight (though your alignment helps you here).

  16. #16
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    I am working on a pretty similar build, here is what I have:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Female
    (1 Monk \ 19 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 204
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 14\14\19\24
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 23
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    16
    Dexterity            18                    30
    Constitution         10                    12
    Intelligence         16                    18
    Wisdom               10                    12
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               8                    33
    Bluff                -1                     7
    Concentration         0                     2
    Diplomacy            -1                    23
    Disable Device        7                    28
    Haggle                3                    23
    Heal                  0                     2
    Hide                  8                    36
    Intimidate           -1                     1
    Jump                  6                    26
    Listen                0                     4
    Move Silently         8                    36
    Open Lock             8                    33
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                3                     5
    Search                7                    30
    Spot                  4                    27
    Swim                  2                     4
    Tumble                8                    34
    Use Magic Device      3                    24
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    
    
    Level 20 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    It is an elf and the base stats are not perfect I know, but the character is already level 5 and I am too lazy to reroll now (will do it when I unlock drows)

    What do you all think? (I also posted in a separate thread before, but since we are talking assassin/monk here, might has well discuss it here ^^)

    I am still wondering if I should try to push Rogue Haste Boost as high as possible instead of taking Subtle Backstabing IV for example hmm

    Also, when do you think is best to take the level of monk? Not the 20th level I guess.

    Thanks

    Laura

  17. #17
    Community Member blacklimoband's Avatar
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    Here's the full build as it stands atm:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Solomai Kron'tyrr
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Drow Male
    (2 Monk \ 18 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 280
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 14\14\19\24
    Fortitude: 12
    Reflex: 21
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             14                 14                   14
    Dexterity            18                 20                   24
    Constitution         13                 16                   16
    Intelligence         14                 14                   14
    Wisdom                8                  8                    8
    Charisma             10                 10                   10
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               8                 30                   30
    Bluff                 0                  0                    6
    Concentration         1                  3                    3
    Diplomacy             4                 23                   23
    Disable Device        6                 25                   26
    Haggle                4                 23                   23
    Heal                 -1                 -1                   -1
    Hide                  4                  7                   15
    Intimidate            0                  0                    0
    Jump                  6                 25                   25
    Listen               -1                 -1                    1
    Move Silently         4                  7                   15
    Open Lock             8                 25                   25
    Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                  2                    2
    Search                6                 25                   27
    Spot                  3                 22                   24
    Swim                  2                  2                    2
    Tumble                8                 25                   25
    Use Magic Device      4                 23                   23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Drow Spell Resistance
    Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
    Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
    Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
    Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
    Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
    Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
    Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
    Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
    Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+2)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Meditation
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Haggle (+2)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: CON
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: CON
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: CON
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    And the enhancements all together:

    Code:
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II

    How's it looking?
    Last edited by blacklimoband; 02-14-2010 at 10:16 PM.
    Computer (noun) - An infuriating electronic device that's primary function is to increase stress, reduce productivity and generally annoy the absolute hell out of its operator. There have been occasional instances of computers behaving in the manner that the operator expects, although these occurrences are incredibly rare.

  18. #18
    Community Member moorewr's Avatar
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    I have a monk/rogue. I really like the combo. When I started working on it I couldn't see what I got from 18/2 that I didn't get with 19/1.. lose one bonus monk feat, gain a rogue bonus feat and a die of backstab.

    (This is my build, Weesham, the shadow assassin:
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=198270)
    <|| “Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch’entrate.” ||>
    AEsahaettr | AlfredSartan | Botharel | PeterMurphy | Weesham etc.

  19. #19
    Community Member blacklimoband's Avatar
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    Almost there with my build (I think).

    Just want to check a couple of things... is PA useful for this build (end up with 258 HP instead of 280 if I drop Toughness at lvl 2 to take it, can't really see anywhere else to swap out)

    If I eat a +2 to all tome at lvl 7 I get + 1 to all saves and +1 Skill Point every lvl from lvl 8. If I leave feats as is HP ends up 300, if I swap out Toughness for PA at lvl 2 HP ends up 278

    Thoughts?

    and if I could get some feedback on SP and Enh allocations in last posted build I would really appreciate it

    Thanks guys
    Last edited by blacklimoband; 02-17-2010 at 12:12 AM.
    Computer (noun) - An infuriating electronic device that's primary function is to increase stress, reduce productivity and generally annoy the absolute hell out of its operator. There have been occasional instances of computers behaving in the manner that the operator expects, although these occurrences are incredibly rare.

  20. #20
    Community Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctus View Post
    Take Rogue as 1st level - you currently loos out on many skillpoints for ZERO gain.

    Too many Monk levels, your Assassinate DC is based on thr number of Rogue levels - it wont land on your current build. Take 2 Monk levels max, or your assassinate gets too weak to be reliable.
    Also the usefullness of monk levels 3-7 is less than what you would get from going more Rogue.
    Ahhh but then you assume he wants to be more rogue based.... I do agree that just one level of rogue is a waste though.

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