Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 38 of 38
  1. #21
    Community Member Bogenbroom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,766

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    if you think finding secret doors is a core function of a rogue, your doing it wrong.
    I mean in fantasy lore/PnP, not in DDO. Obviously that is not the case since a first level arcane spell does it better than any rogue.

    Several people have mentioned things/ways to address this discrepancy from the other end... speeding up the search animation, auto detect on a spot significantly over the search difficulty of the door, etc. All very good ideas. On that line, auto-rolling a search on a successful spot, sans animation, might be a good way to go. Heck, maybe make it a free feat for rogues/rangers (say level 4/8) to auto-search on successful spot. All of that would be fine for pumping up the detectors to match the clickie/spell/wand users. Additionally, it would be more in line with the speed of the game than what I suggested.

    Re: the spell, though... it has been suggested that it is working properly. That isn't the case. Using detect secret doors it is supposed to take you at least three rounds to figure out how to open a secret door. Initially you are supposed to be able to identify the existence of secret doors in the direction you are facing... while standing still and concentrating. During the second round you can identify the location of each secret door, again, in the direction you are facing only. Not until the third round of continued concentration can you figure out how to actually *open* the door. And even then, only 1 door per round. So, based on the 3.5 description I can find, the DDO interpretation is *significantly* more effective than its source material. While I have no huge urge to turn up the speed of the game any more than it already is, I certainly wouldn't want to slow it down that much.

    What I originally suggested was with a desire to avoid pumping up one thing to compensate for another thing that is too powerful... and largely a reaction to the game continuing to get easier and easier. Probably not the way to go though.
    Bogenbroom's DDO Wishlist.......Tolero's guide to actionable feedback
    Bogenbroom's legion... 83 characters, 3 accounts, and 1 irate wife.

  2. #22
    Community Member Lorien_the_First_One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    17,767

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by muffinlad View Post
    As suggested by others, make the Spot skill simply reveal the doors if they hit a number.
    Per D&D rules, spot should be able to auto-spot secret doors and traps without a search if they hit hte DC (for example traps should have both a search DC and a spot one). This would indeed make spot more useful to rogues, and every other class that takes spot.

    The search animation should also be make MUCH quicker

    Quote Originally Posted by Quikster View Post
    A better solution would be to start carrying detect secret door clickies on your rogue
    I do

  3. #23
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Cannith Server
    Posts
    456

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogenbroom View Post
    Okay, I am sure this won't be popular, but it has always struck me as wrong that a first level spell, readily available on clickies the world over, makes a basic core function of the rogue and ranger classes obsolete.

    Beyond making the need to search for secret doors obsolete, it is actually significantly more effective and quick than actually searching. Pet peeve of mine, sitting there, searching with my rogue and some damned bard whips his DSD wand and spots it. Don't know why it bugs me, but it does. Probably the same reason it annoys melees when they pound something down to 5% and a sorc polar rays it dead.

    I would suggest having Detect Secret Doors (and True Seeing for that matter) function like like Find Traps, and give a bonus to the search skill when searching for secret doors.
    They should just remove every wall at this point right?

  4. #24
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    14,425

    Default

    I think the duration could be severely reduced or removed entirely and made an instant spell..

    I mean in PnP it's not some kinda permanent buff like it tends to be in DDO. You have to spend several rounds of effort to make it work..

    So a duration nerf to something like 6 seconds + 1 per caster level could work. Or no duration and just be instant to reveal a door once your somewhat certain of the location.

    Just shouldn't work as a automatic 40minuit buff of negate spot skill like it is now. Trueseeing being a much higher lvl spell gets that ability, a lvl1 spell shouldn't.

  5. #25
    Community Member Lorien_the_First_One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    17,767

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogenbroom View Post
    I mean in fantasy lore/PnP, not in DDO. Obviously that is not the case since a first level arcane spell does it better than any rogue.
    You are wrong in D&D too. In D&D/PnP a rogue's primary job is killing, opening stuff is a bonus. Most locks in D&D can be smashed into, doors broken down, etc. Unless on a stealth mission, your barbarian can be your lockpick in a pinch. In addition, in D&D the level 1 knock is more powerful than ANY rogue as it can open any lock or seal, including ones rogues can't. You must be thinking back to first edition where they were "thieves" not rogues (and of course even back then Monk's could do 100% of a theive's theifing job).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogenbroom View Post
    Re: the spell, though... it has been suggested that it is working properly. That isn't the case. Using detect secret doors it is supposed to take you at least three rounds to figure out how to open a secret door. .
    Everything is faster in DDO. For exaple, a rogue should take 1 full round to search a 5x5 space. In that full round in this game we get a good 30 ft radius, and can search through walls. So if you are arguing to go by the book for timing, we need to massively slow the rogue search skill and only detect things you are standing exactly next to/on top of.

  6. #26
    Community Member KKDragonLord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Brazil, Minas Gerais, Belo Horizonte
    Posts
    2,117

    Default

    Use a Detect door clickie on your Rogue/Ranger, its faster, you'll like it.

    Solved.

    The idea is finding the door, doesn't matter who does it or how.

    making it slower is a bad thing not a good one.

  7. #27
    Community Member Letrii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    2,747

    Default

    In D&D, any class can find secret doors/traps and disable traps. The only caveat is only classes with trapfinding ability can disable traps with DC above 20.


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

  8. #28
    Community Member Therilith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    411

    Default

    I agree.

    It always bothered me that a 1st level spell was better at finding secret doors than a level 20 rogue with max ranks in search.

    Also, saying a suggestion is bad because "DON'T WANNA!" is not exactly a great argument. Being opposed to something that makes your character weaker or your characters opponents stronger is perfectly reasonable, but if every change made players stronger and monsters weaker because all other ideas were rejected as "making things more difficult; therefore bad" pretty soon we wouldn't have any game left.

  9. #29
    Community Member Bogenbroom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,766

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_the_First_One View Post
    You are wrong in D&D too. In D&D/PnP a rogue's primary job is killing, opening stuff is a bonus. Most locks in D&D can be smashed into, doors broken down, etc. Unless on a stealth mission, your barbarian can be your lockpick in a pinch. In addition, in D&D the level 1 knock is more powerful than ANY rogue as it can open any lock or seal, including ones rogues can't. You must be thinking back to first edition where they were "thieves" not rogues (and of course even back then Monk's could do 100% of a theive's theifing job).
    That is probably spot on. My PnP experience is all first edition, so yes, I fully admit I come at it with that perspective of a rogue/thief. Regarding Knock, though... that is the same thing I am saying with DSD. In DDO Knock was modified in a way that prevented rogue's abilities in that area from becoming moot. I would be thrilled if DSD worked exactly the same way as Knock. Not at all what I was suggesting, but I think it would be a fine way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_the_First_One View Post
    Everything is faster in DDO. For example, a rogue should take 1 full round to search a 5x5 space. In that full round in this game we get a good 30 ft radius, and can search through walls. So if you are arguing to go by the book for timing, we need to massively slow the rogue search skill and only detect things you are standing exactly next to/on top of.
    See, that is half of what I was getting at... the timing on one is instantaneous, whereas on the other is more or less accurate. The range on both is pooched.

    Frankly, in the end, I don't really care how it was approached, I would just like to see something done so secret doors, and the ability to detect them, were not so out of whack.
    Bogenbroom's DDO Wishlist.......Tolero's guide to actionable feedback
    Bogenbroom's legion... 83 characters, 3 accounts, and 1 irate wife.

  10. #30
    Community Member hcarr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Khyber
    Posts
    329

    Default

    On my rogue I just skip the stupid door and go kill something or do something else let the piker with the pack of clickies get it. Let them feal useful.

  11. #31
    Community Member Gadget2775's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    1,638

    Default

    I like the idea of a auto Spot/Search combo (A Listen/Search combo would also make sense...). Wouldn't think it'd take to much to modify the current implementation. Spot already does most of what's needed by telling us where/when to look for hidden objects. Script a single shot animation free search whenever the Spot goes off and yer set. If they miss it the Search item goes on and the can manually trigger the search again.
    D.W.A.T: (Now with Non-Dwarf support)
    Founder of the (D.W.A.T) Elf Rebellion and Supporter of the H (alfling). I(ntel). T(eam).

  12. #32
    Community Member Anderei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget2775 View Post
    I like the idea of a auto Spot/Search combo (A Listen/Search combo would also make sense...). Wouldn't think it'd take to much to modify the current implementation. Spot already does most of what's needed by telling us where/when to look for hidden objects. Script a single shot animation free search whenever the Spot goes off and yer set. If they miss it the Search item goes on and the can manually trigger the search again.
    Yup, good idea. whenever spot goes off a search skill check should be done at the same time (without animation!), when successful doors&traps become visible (and you get a message, your fine senses discovered a secret door/trap), if not you get the message "your fine senses make you feel there is something hidden here, but you cannot make it out". If spot does not go off, you can still hit the search key, get that animation, and uncover doors/traps. Or if search failed, and you switch your spoit item with your search item, then hit search.

  13. #33
    Community Member KKDragonLord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Brazil, Minas Gerais, Belo Horizonte
    Posts
    2,117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderei View Post
    Yup, good idea. whenever spot goes off a search skill check should be done at the same time (without animation!), when successful doors&traps become visible (and you get a message, your fine senses discovered a secret door/trap), if not you get the message "your fine senses make you feel there is something hidden here, but you cannot make it out". If spot does not go off, you can still hit the search key, get that animation, and uncover doors/traps. Or if search failed, and you switch your spoit item with your search item, then hit search.
    Now there is a suggestion i can get behind.

    /signed

    I wouldnt even mind limiting Detect Secret doors by caster level, as it is with Knock.
    Last edited by KKDragonLord; 01-12-2010 at 04:25 PM.

  14. #34
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Orillia, Ontario
    Posts
    4,985

    Default

    The search function for findinng secret doors does take too long.
    It wasnt long before i just got myself a clickie on my rogue of detect secret doors.
    Then I got the Intricate Field Optics( automatic sectet door detection).
    Now I run with Tharnes.

    I am a believer that The search function takes too long, and that If you are 5 or 10 points over on the ability to findi it, It should pop up without searching), same with finding traps.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200 (Former Guilds: ChaosKnights, Big Damn Heroes, Shadowfiends, Order of the Drow, Unusual Suspects, Raided R)
    Argo-Jotmon(HC 28/42,EC 26/36,IC 12/12), Jotmonheals(Clr17/Rog2/Mnk1-EC 32/36), Whatthetruck(Raid farmer-2nd life).. and many many more alts..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  15. #35
    Community Member Superspeed_Hi5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,114

    Default

    To the OP - Thats just magic for you. It makes everything better, like casting GH on a Rogue so they can actually disable the device you just found.

    In the end it doesnt matter who finds the secret door, and apparently you dont even need to open them to get the bonus xp just find them.

    To me this just sounds like professional jealousy. OMG that wizard is so much better than me I hates him must make sure he cant find useless secret doors. Seriously dude grow up. In PnP it takes forever to search a hallway to make it clear. Is that how you want it to function? Where if you arent standing exactly where you need to be you cant find the box? Or do you want to get your loot, xp, and move on to the next challenge. I vote XP & loot please.

  16. #36
    Community Member Solostoran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Vernon, B.C Canada
    Posts
    99

    Default :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quikster View Post
    A better solution would be to start carrying detect secret door clickies on your rogue
    Done and done
    PESTILENCE
    Selastra<Rogue> Quadcore<Wiz> Pontius<Cleric> Ursela<Bard> Histra<Rogue>

  17. #37
    Community Member Kalari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    My own pocket plane of dreams...
    Posts
    8,246

    Default

    I agree with Lorien if it was a "core" feature they would not offer it to every class even at a point limit (via cross class). I think the ability to spot a secret door is something that benefits any class and if they work on it with the spell, bother to carry a clickie or even put points into spot should benefit from finding hidden doors. In pen and paper if you bothered with spot you got to roll a spot check no matter what the class you were at least in games I partook in. So I dont feel this change is needed but this is just my opinion.
    Kalari-Lost Legions resident Drunking Gaming Diva!
    Im not bad Im morally Obtuse...
    *Enter my Den..*/*Live RPG fun on Skype*

  18. #38
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_the_First_One View Post
    Lots of classes can get a high spot and search, no big deal.

    Finding secret doors can be done by multiple people, its only disabling that is unique to rogues. Even then, it is not the most important thing they do by a long shot. Their core ability is killing things.

    I get really annoyed when I invite a Rogue to the group and, upon getting into an instance and reaching the first hidden door/trap, hearing them say, "Uh, I don't have high enough search/lock picking/disable device." I'd rather bring in a rogue that did wimpy DPS and could disable a trap than have just another DPSer.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload