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  1. #1
    Community Member Ithrani's Avatar
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    Default Turbine at its finest

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomPlayer;
    Ah, here's the issue. Taking one of the force arrows locks out the other force arrow. Dropping Imbue Force Arrow, I was then able to take the Imbue Force Burst Arrow.

    Edit: And of course, one can't take the Slaying Arrow enhancement unless they have just the normal Force Arrow.
    Quote Originally Posted by DevTeamMember;
    Oops. That's not intended.
    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomPlayer;
    Didn't think so. Shall I bug report it then?
    Quote Originally Posted by DevTeamMember;
    Only if you want it fixed.
    This is why there is so many problems that exist with DDO. Why can't a member of the Development team contact a member of the QA team and get it fixed or since it should be the Dev team going into fix the problem just simply fix the problem. It makes no sense to put 404 through the process of a bug report when a Development member is aware of the bug.

    Please can anyone explain the sense in this? This is a bug in the beta, it is bad enough we have to go to the server to find bugs for DDO we have to bother to report it to someone in a different department then Development. I just don't get it, does the QA team fix the problems and not the Development team? Well I know it doesn't since 404 explained "After being fully prioritized thae group of people ship it off to a dev and it goes into their I should fix this list."

    So why didn't it just go on the list for the Dev member who became aware instead of the nonsense protocol?

    Sure, I am venting, but I really do think if the process was circumvented when a dev member becomes aware of a bug and they just fix it Turbine would work at its finest.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Zippo's Avatar
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    If there is one thing I have learned from being in the military and working for the government on the civilian side.

    C

    Y

    A

    Everything has paperwork and the paperwork has paperwork for it. You've just got channels that things have to go through for one reason or another.

    In this particular case I highly doubt it but things of this nature could easily end up as official documentation and transcripts in legal proceedings as we are seeing going on right now between ATARI and Turbine. Sometimes best to not question it and just do it.

    my 2cp
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithrani View Post
    So why didn't it just go on the list for the Dev member who became aware instead of the nonsense protocol?
    Every piece of information is important for finding bugs.

    What character? What's the build? What Feats do you have? What are your stats?

    Who knows what caused the bug, by the player with the problem reporting the problem, they have alot more information to go on.

  4. #4
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Because that would be an ideal world. But the world we have is not ideal.

    By making the report, the process also will more than likely attempt to identify the reason for this error. Possibly a lesson learned so that such does NOT happen again.

    So the correct answer and ONLY way to be certain something gets fixed. File the bug report. If there is no record of it, the bug does not exist and will never get fixed.

  5. #5
    Community Member Ithrani's Avatar
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    Just seems counterproductive, if there is a problem getting it fixed should be done asap instead of it getting buried in protocols.
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  6. #6
    Founder Brother_Solar's Avatar
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    Erm... how do you know Eladrin wasn't just making a joke? You seem to be taking it far more seriously than I did when I read it. Eladrin has shown that he has a sense of humor, on occasion.

  7. #7
    Community Member Jacoby's Avatar
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    This MOD should not be delivered until fixed!!!

    That's a major bug.

  8. #8
    The Hatchery GeneralDiomedes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother_Solar View Post
    Erm... how do you know Eladrin wasn't just making a joke? You seem to be taking it far more seriously than I did when I read it. Eladrin has shown that he has a sense of humor, on occasion.
    It was posted with a sense of humor, and also I believe he was sending the message to encourage everyone to post bugs when they find them.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Because that would be an ideal world. But the world we have is not ideal.

    By making the report, the process also will more than likely attempt to identify the reason for this error. Possibly a lesson learned so that such does NOT happen again.

    So the correct answer and ONLY way to be certain something gets fixed. File the bug report. If there is no record of it, the bug does not exist and will never get fixed.
    This.

    Additionally, imagine your some coder for DDO and you got 3 or more guys coming into your office randomly and telling ya stuff that is broke. First, the coder gets interrupted from his work, then he as to be arsed with either filling out a bug report himself or filing a work order from the intruding complainer. It is a lot easier for the coder to look at his work schedule see what is prioritized and dive right into productivity.

    Sending every Joe Blow that hears a bug report into the coders office will guarantee that nothing at all gets done.

  10. #10
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithrani View Post
    Just seems counterproductive, if there is a problem getting it fixed should be done asap instead of it getting buried in protocols.
    Welcome to real life. Sucks don't it?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithrani View Post
    [...] does the QA team fix the problems and not the Development team?
    QA finds the bugs and give them some sort of vague priority that ranges from "It would be an unthinkably bad disaster if the update was released with this problem unfixed." to "Psychotic user behavior." Then, they are fixed by order of importance by the programmers (ie NOT the designers now the QA team).

    If you want to read more about the profession, read this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ithrani View Post
    So why didn't it just go on the list for the Dev member who became aware instead of the nonsense protocol?
    Because it's not nonsense protocol.

    Knowing that there is a bug and knowing what it does is only the beginning. You have to confirm it (since it was submitted by the players), reproduce it reliably to identify the cause and then assign it the right priority. Unless Eladrin was willing to go out of his way to test all of this himself, the QA had to be contacted in some way and a player fulfilling a bug report is good way since it gives access to character-specific information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother_Solar View Post
    Erm... how do you know Eladrin wasn't just making a joke?
    That's also very likely.
    Last edited by Borror0; 01-09-2010 at 09:58 PM.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Zippo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithrani View Post
    Just seems counterproductive, if there is a problem getting it fixed should be done asap instead of it getting buried in protocols.
    You assume that they didn't go right back and start looking at it or at least go back and write it on the dry erase board (or what ever method the devs have for keeping track of them). The one thing I can guarantee you is that they have definite cause for keeping as accurate information as possible on ANY bugs and those bug reports are designed for doing just that. Much more accurate then a quick post in a thread about a problem that might get their attention but not all the important information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper View Post
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  13. #13
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    If you file a bug report QAT can load your character up and follow the steps you gave them to reproduce the bug. This allows QAT to determine if your system is a contributing factor.

    QAT documents how to reproduce the bug.

    Also the more reports there are of a particular bug, the higher priority the bug should be assigned by BA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    QA finds the bugs and give them some sort of vague priority
    I would say QAT 'confirms the bugs and documents steps to reproduce the bug, then determines the severity/impact of the bug.'

    DEV estimates the resources required to fix the bug, including QAT resources to confirm the fix.

    BA then allocates the bug a priority.

    Most of my experience is with ISO certified software, a very high standard of development that Turbine is not required to meet, so Turbine's processes may not match those I have described exactly.
    Last edited by TechNoFear; 01-09-2010 at 10:30 PM.
    Jesus saves but only Buddha makes incremental backups.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippo View Post
    If there is one thing I have learned from being in the military and working for the government on the civilian side.

    C

    Y

    A

    Everything has paperwork and the paperwork has paperwork for it. You've just got channels that things have to go through for one reason or another.

    In this particular case I highly doubt it but things of this nature could easily end up as official documentation and transcripts in legal proceedings as we are seeing going on right now between ATARI and Turbine. Sometimes best to not question it and just do it.

    my 2cp

    No doubt...... Project billable hours = 15..... Time to fill out various levels of paperwork and doucmentation = 21 hours. Been there done that

    No really though, there are or at least were issues with how Turbine handled Bugs and bug reports, no doubt about it. They why's where's, and when's remain a mystery and likely will continue to be one forever.....

  15. #15
    Developer Eladrin's Avatar
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    The "" emoticon typically suggests that humor is intended.

    It was posted with a sense of humor, and also I believe he was sending the message to encourage everyone to post bugs when they find them.
    That's sort of the point. First, confirming that it was a bug. Second, encouraging people to send in bug reports. We won't necessarily catch everything that's just posted on the forums. Third, friendly banter is good, IMO.

  16. #16
    Community Member Ardaniel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    Third, friendly banter is good, IMO.
    No it isn't. It gets in the way of gnashing teeth and the pulling of hair that we tortured gamer masses go through on a daily basis due to the callous indifference of the devs to our many and varied problems!!!


    For example, I accidentally wasted two mana pots once. This is unacceptable. There should be a 5-step mana pot protection safety measure added into the game posthaste!


    (Hmm I like that word postehaste, I think I'll use it for the rest of the week and drive my friends batty)
    Last edited by Ardaniel; 01-10-2010 at 08:37 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardaniel View Post
    For example, I accidentally wasted two mana pots once. This is unacceptable. There should be a 5-step mana pot protection safety measure added into the game posthaste!
    And afterwards, when it is implemented, complain about it,
    when you need Mana in a hurry and get killed because it took you too long to click through the confirmation dialogues for the use of the mana pot


  18. #18
    Community Member axan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    The "" emoticon typically suggests that humor is intended.


    That's sort of the point. First, confirming that it was a bug. Second, encouraging people to send in bug reports. We won't necessarily catch everything that's just posted on the forums. Third, friendly banter is good, IMO.
    Friendly banter is always cool, and didnt think a dev would comment on a problem then not look into it anyway, but the more reports the more info so the quicker it maybe to fix :-)

  19. #19
    Hatchery Founder
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    Oh, that's the bug I found. Neat!

    Though, what's this about being some random player? I'm not random. Well, not often anyway!
    RedShirt / Roleplayer of Giant Slayers, Inc. on Thelanis, formerly Tharashk.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    So the correct answer and ONLY way to be certain something gets fixed. File the bug report. If there is no record of it, the bug does not exist and will never get fixed.
    I work in software, on the design/dev side of things. If someone reports a bug to me through unofficial channels, I file a bug report in the official channel. I don't, as a representative of my company, greet a customer's attempt to let me know of a problem by telling them to go fill out a form.

    I see that Eladrin may have followed up on this internally and just not been clear in his humor. So good on him. But it's kind of silly to hear other customers arguing that it's not every Turbine employee's job to pass on important customer feedback when it comes to them.
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