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  1. #1
    Community Member SolarDawning's Avatar
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    Default Contrary to popular belief, Elite does scale.

    I've seen it stated many times on these forums that Dungeon Scaling is not in effect when entering a quest on elite.

    I proffer the following evidence in favor of Dungeon Scaling's existence, albeit to a diminished degree, in Elite difficulty missions:

    Vicious weaponry.
    In a Normal difficulty mission, solo, Vicious always deals 1 damage to the attacking player with the weapon equipped, instead of the stated 1-3.
    In a Normal difficulty mission, with a group of six players, Vicious deals the full 1-3 damage to the player.

    In an elite difficulty mission, solo, Vicious deals 1 or 2 damage to the attacking player, but never three. In hours of play today doing lower level missions for favor, across hundreds of attacks, I never saw a single 3.

    Has it ever been explicitly stated by a developer that Elite is unaffected by scaling?

  2. #2

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    The fact that incoming vicious damage is scaled by dungeon scaling at all sounds like a bug to me.

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  3. #3
    Community Member hydra_ex's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SolarDawning View Post
    Has it ever been explicitly stated by a developer that Elite is unaffected by scaling?
    I'm pretty sure, yes. I'll go try to find the post.

    edit: Found it!

    Quote Originally Posted by DDO Official Compendium Update 0 Release Notes
    "Difficulty Scaling" has been introduced into quests and adventure areas. Normal and Hard dungeons (not solo, elite, or raid) will now scale their difficulty based on the size and composition of the party to help "smaller" parties face a more appropriate amount of challenge. Players and hirelings will contribute to the overall strength of the party which influences the difficulty of the dungeon. As a result, several different dungeon elements are adjusted to help keep the challenge of the dungeon in line with the size of the force taking it on. This can include things such as monster spell durations, hit points, and even damage output.
    Of course, you may be right, and its bugged, but then its not WAI.
    Last edited by hydra_ex; 01-06-2010 at 05:45 PM.
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  4. #4
    Community Member SolarDawning's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hydra_ex View Post
    I'm pretty sure, yes. I'll go try to find the post.
    Whatever you can dig up is much appreciated. I did a search, but was unable to pull any relevant statements from Turbine employees, but I admit that my search-fu is weak.

    It could also be possible that Vicious scaling is independent from other scaling in the quest? (Mob difficulty)

  5. #5
    Community Member SolarDawning's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hydra_ex View Post
    Okay! In that case; I'd like to repurpose this thread.
    New topic of discussion:

    "Why does Vicious weaponry scale incoming damage to players, even in situations where there would otherwise be no dungeon scaling, such as Elite difficulty?"

    Any insights?

  6. #6
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    I've given up on trying to apply logic to Dungeon Scaling.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarDawning View Post
    Okay! In that case; I'd like to repurpose this thread.
    New topic of discussion:

    "Why does Vicious weaponry scale incoming damage to players, even in situations where there would otherwise be no dungeon scaling, such as Elite difficulty?"

    Any insights?
    If it's scaling down incoming damage, even though there is reportedly no scaling, then it's obviously bugged.

    I think vicious might be a special case in their scaling algorithms though, since it's technically not incoming damage from mobs.

  8. #8
    Community Member cyanpill's Avatar
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    Default

    Wasn't there a declaration that "elemental damage" scales even on elite? And that includes the vicious damage. Or atleast that's what I remember someone saying the last thread viscous was brought up
    Quote Originally Posted by Flood View Post
    I think the only thing DDO suffers from, is the inability to please everyone.

  9. #9
    DDO Catalog MrCow's Avatar
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    Default

    Dungeon scaling occurs on normal, hard, and elite. It does not occur on Raids or Epic.

    Vicious damage, being a form of incoming damage to your character, will be scaled on all scaling situations (and being elite scales, vicious damage to your character scales).
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  10. #10
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrCow View Post
    Dungeon scaling occurs on normal, hard, and elite. It does not occur on Raids or Epic...
    Scaling defenitely affects elite. That is why, when the trap scaling was bonk, elite traps were off the charts.

    Although elite scaling does not support the original purpose of scaling, I've never seen Turb offer a reason for scaling elite. One can only assume, Turb wants to make it easier for small groups to run elite.
    Last edited by parvo; 01-06-2010 at 06:18 PM.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Lorien_the_First_One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parvo View Post
    Scaling defenitely affects elite. That is why, when the trap scaling was bonk, elite traps were off the charts.
    Which makes one wonder if that scaling is intentional and the release notes are borked or if the scaling is a bug. Considering we were initially told "if you want a challenge and don't want scaling you can always run elite" I have to think its bugged.

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  12. #12

    Default

    I confirm that my frenzied berserker frenzy (which adds the vicious property to my weapon) scales with party size, no matter what the difficulty. When I'm playing with just me n' a hireling, it's always 1 damage. In a full party, there's a more even spread. It's silly, really. Hirelings chug spell point potions like crazy, so it really doesn't matter how much damage I take. I would definitely not be sore if they decided to fix this bug.

  13. #13
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    Damage recieved is a big part of what scaling does. Elite scaling is not a bug. It has scaled since they rolled out scaling. It's been tweaked a few times, but always there. Of course Turb knows that elite scales, otherwise, elite traps would not have been adjusted to scale properly.
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  14. #14

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    That is why, when the trap scaling was bonk, elite traps were off the charts.
    Was? Were? Elite traps are still off the charts.

  15. #15
    Community Member aerieon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Was? Were? Elite traps are still off the charts.
    /agree elite traps feel more like what epic should be... /sigh

  16. #16
    Founder Guildmaster_Kadish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarDawning View Post
    Has it ever been explicitly stated by a developer that Elite is unaffected by scaling?
    Yes. If it isn't, then something isn't WAI.

    EDIT: Gah... already posted... must *bangs head on desk* read *hits head again* entire *third time's the charm, right?* thread.
    Last edited by Guildmaster_Kadish; 01-06-2010 at 11:21 PM. Reason: Info already posted
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  17. #17
    WikiGnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garth_of_Sarlona View Post
    The fact that incoming vicious damage is scaled by dungeon scaling at all sounds like a bug to me.
    It is. I have PM'd 404error about it a while back.
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  18. #18
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    Default

    just to sum this up (i like finalizing old threads that have permanent links to them)

    Vicious
    Effect: adds 2d6 untyped damage on hit, wielder takes 1 to 3 damage depending on the number of other players present (despite DDO documents that state the damage is 1d3, the damage is constant).
    Total players Damage to wielder
    1 to 2 1
    3 to 4 2
    5+ 3

  19. #19
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    Default

    This can be noticed when using a twisted talisman necklace also, on a solo normal quest it hits for(iirc) 14 dmg or in an elite full party it does 40 points of damage.

    This would give a better indication of how much scaling there is if someone tested with the necklace.
    Last edited by FastTaco; 02-13-2011 at 08:11 AM.

  20. #20
    Community Member dougnugget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastTaco View Post
    This can be noticed when using a twisted talisman necklace also, on a solo normal quest it hits for(iirc) 14 dmg or in an elite full party it does 40 points of damage.

    This would give a better indication of how much scaling there is if someone tested with the necklace.
    Thank you! (and +1, of course) - I've picked up a Twisted Talisman recently on my bard, and couldn't work out why the (supposedly fixed) amount of damage it deal to me was varying.

    I think the most damage I've ever taken off it was 48 and that would be in a full group - I will try and keep a note of how much I take in different situations and report back.

    Regards,

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