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  1. #1
    Community Member Samadhi's Avatar
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    Default PUG-ing Question

    Most of my guild has been TR-ing so I have been PUG-ing a bit more than usual. The amount of detail being put into "what classes are needed" for certain raids is quite remarkable. (Hound normal - we MUST have 3 clerics - when myself and I'm sure others have solo-healed this on a bard).

    So, my question is, is it proper for us that are more experienced to acquiesce to this?

    I could have the point of view that, as long as these folks coddle themselves, they are never going to truly learn how to play and play well. With this point of view, we should as much as possible encourage what we consider typical - even though it will be difficult for the newer folks - as a way to train them to eventually handle themselves like a skilled player. The bad side is that, if it does fail, the newer folks might reject the conventional wisdom of what is possible and further burden themselves with unneeded ideals of what *needs* to be done.

    I could also have the point of view that, I just want the raid done, and if that means I need to wait an extra 10 minutes for a third cleric - with the expectation only 1 of the 3 is going to be remotely capable - then at least the raid will be complete and I can move on with my day. The bad side of this is that it becomes commonplace that *this* is how this raid *must* be run and, once again, the players never develop their skills.

    To be honest, I'm not sure which point of view is better, hence more random and senseless posts from me
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  2. #2
    Community Member Nataichal's Avatar
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    For something obviously extreme, you certainly don't need to stick around for. But barring the incredibly unreasonable, you have to understand the general quality of PUGs is a lot lower. The most talent players far more often play within guild; PUGs consist more of casual players, newer players, and everything else you can think of that doesn't fall under 'twinked'. So while a guild run (with all the DPS and experience that comes with it) might be able to handle 1 guild cleric, a PUG run has to build a group based on these standards. Namely, that even with 3 clerics, there might not be enough talent between them to keep a party from wiping, and even if they're great, the DPS may be so non existent as to make it pointless.
    Guinglain 20 Barb Tynnian 20 Cleric Citrinitas 23 Rogue Nataichal 20 Sorcerer Dy Trying 20 Bard/Ranger Altar Boy 8 Paladin Wynds of Change 20 Pal/Fight/Rogue Near Miss 20 Ranger/Rogue Beeten Senseless 24 Monk/Fighter Systematic Elimination 16 Wizard

  3. #3
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    I always get myself squelched for suggesting as politely as I can that we could maybe try to run the Shroud with fewer than 3 casters or something. Doesn't mean I won't keep trying to get the raid started !

    It's kind of sad when you can complete the raid in the time it takes the LFM to fill to the leader's exact whims.
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  4. #4
    Founder & Hero
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    Just form your own group and if I am on I will go with ya one cleric is plenty though I will say the last two hounds I was with failed and its a little discouraging. We had half or more of the party on the way to the first portal


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  5. #5
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    I prescribe more fiber in your diet

  6. #6
    Community Member Chingus's Avatar
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    There is no one way to categorize a PUG group at all some work great and others just dont work at all.
    *The pain that I have caused you gives me great joy*

    Active: Chingus CLR; Fatchingus CLR; Spellbuff BRD; Springloaded FTR/RGR/ROG; Pinkage SORC; Chiforeneat PAL/MNK/FTR

  7. #7
    Community Member hermespan's Avatar
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    I translate "We must have 3 clerics" to "We must have 3 clerics because none of us has good equipment and we don't heal ourselves or have UMD to use wands. We expect you to have a stack of 10 CSW wands each because you'll need them."

  8. #8
    Community Member Shamurai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chingus View Post
    There is no one way to categorize a PUG group at all some work great and others just dont work at all.

    /agreed

    ~ 99.5% of my capped Pally's xp came from PuG's.
    ~ I have over 25 Raids completed (various but no Abbot or DQ)
    ~ I've done thes with everything from 1 to 3 "healers" some worked some didn't and no clear proff which one was optimal.
    ~ Buuut I had fun every time, at least I think I did.

    I don't know the raid well enough to lead (nor any quest above like lvl 10) so I join PuG's and for the most part they work juuuust fine. Ocassional bad apples have never ruined my mix.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Josh's Avatar
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    Answer:

    TR someone and get on the bandwagon with the rest of us. Ret and I were just commenting last night how we missed your commentary during gameplay...and besides you missed the Gwyland's run last night with the 44 hp wizzie who died 20 times. That's top tier humor.
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  10. #10
    Founder ChaelaAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    Answer:

    TR someone and get on the bandwagon with the rest of us. Ret and I were just commenting last night how we missed your commentary during gameplay...and besides you missed the Gwyland's run last night with the 44 hp wizzie who died 20 times. That's top tier humor.
    OMG, that was one of the most frustrating and annoying runs I've been on in a while. I mean, SERIOUSLY.
    Alexandria: ~TR~ Barb, cap. Elzibith: Barb, lvl 15. Luaidhean: Casting Cleric, cap. Premika: Battle FvS, cap. Siobhann: Battle Bard, cap. Temperrance: ~TR~ Monk, lvl 18. Treaka: ~TR~ Arti, lvl 13. Venngeance: DPS Ranger, cap. Yzabelle: ~TR~ Sorc, lvl 16
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  11. #11
    Community Member Lleren's Avatar
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    Better to wear suspenders and belt with pug's. Just get it done. quality is so very uncertain.

    Want to improve PuG raid running? Host a few with your guild /friends supplying part of the raidforce.

  12. #12
    Community Member wamjratl1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    Answer:

    TR someone and get on the bandwagon with the rest of us. Ret and I were just commenting last night how we missed your commentary during gameplay...and besides you missed the Gwyland's run last night with the 44 hp wizzie who died 20 times. That's top tier humor.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaelaAnne View Post
    OMG, that was one of the most frustrating and annoying runs I've been on in a while. I mean, SERIOUSLY.
    Nothing will beat the Gwylan's run I had when I was levelling my wiz. It was Epic and forever etched in my memory. I refuse to discuss it further lest it tarnish my reputation . (although I will say that my wiz was not the gimpy one who died 20 times)
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chingus View Post
    There is no one way to categorize a PUG group at all some work great and others just dont work at all.

    I can make any PuG suck......

  14. #14
    Community Member Josh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaelaAnne View Post
    OMG, that was one of the most frustrating and annoying runs I've been on in a while. I mean, SERIOUSLY.
    I know Treaka, you were freaking out lol.

    It seemed like as soon as the poor guy zoned into the instance...DING. Perpetual state of ghost. Hopefully he will realize that his build isn't working and fix it.
    Last edited by Josh; 12-24-2009 at 02:31 AM.
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