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  1. #1
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    Default Holy vs elemental burst

    Had a discussion yesterday about which burst type to use. I made the point that holy has they highest damage at 4d6 opposed to 2d10 on burst and hits just about anything (fire mephitis/ ice mephitis ..... Who cares) but got called a noob and yes he's 'played since beta'.

    Did I get it wrong? I use hb of pg as main set because they seem to be the best all rounders, and carry a fire and ice set for when required.

  2. #2
    Community Member Visty's Avatar
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    if he called you a noob and is playing since beta then he is someone who joined the eberron unlimited beta and thinks that is the only beta. he is not a vet, he is a noob.

    holy burst is better, because it hits more mobs.
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  3. #3
    Community Member hydra_ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkullJug View Post
    Had a discussion yesterday about which burst type to use. I made the point that holy has they highest damage at 4d6 opposed to 2d10 on burst and hits just about anything (fire mephitis/ ice mephitis ..... Who cares) but got called a noob and yes he's 'played since beta'.

    Did I get it wrong? I use hb of pg as main set because they seem to be the best all rounders, and carry a fire and ice set for when required.
    Holy burst is better than elemental burst, 90% of the time. Holy does not work on animals, elementals, or, good aligned creatures (the only 3 quests which feature good aligned creatures are Wrath of the Flame [lvl 19], Running with the Devils [lvl 16] and purge the heretics [lvl 6]). Animals should not be a problem, but elementals are common, yet not common enough that it makes elemental burst better than holy burst.

    Also, many noobs are imbeciles, so don't listen to them. The worst part is, they might be right about one thing; they could have been playing since the August Beta!
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  4. #4
    Community Member Impatiens's Avatar
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    Holy burst is going to be better in almost all instances but it is good to keep something on hand that does extra damage to those neutral (and on rare occasions good) mobs you encounter. Using holy burst over some other type of burst certainly does not make you a noob though. As an aside I like Force burst for the mobs that holy doesn't hit. Very few things are immune or resistant to it.

  5. #5
    Community Member jkm's Avatar
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    i think it depends on what you mean by better:

    a +1 elemental burst weapon will be ML4
    a +1 holy burst weapon will be ML10

    at ML10, the elemental bursts would be at +4.

    the holy will do more damage (2d6 per swing vs 1d6, 3/4/5d6 burst damage vs 1/2/3d10)

    one last thing, mephits are true neutral so holy won't work on them.

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    Thanks guys, confirms what I thought. Like I said, I keep some elementals for when hb doesn't get it done but use holy burst 90% of the time. Do you agree that hb also does more damage?

    I've never seen a force burst khopesh! Does
    such an animal exist? And what is the burst damage done?

    I was going to call him out about the beta comment, but who could be stuffed??

  7. #7
    Community Member Kaervas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydra_ex View Post
    Holy burst is better than elemental burst, 90% of the time. Holy does not work on animals, elementals, or, good aligned creatures (the only 3 quests which feature good aligned creatures are Wrath of the Flame [lvl 19], Running with the Devils [lvl 16] and purge the heretics [lvl 6]). Animals should not be a problem, but elementals are common, yet not common enough that it makes elemental burst better than holy burst.

    Also, many noobs are imbeciles, so don't listen to them. The worst part is, they might be right about one thing; they could have been playing since the August Beta!
    1 more quest springs to mind.
    Ghosts of Perdition (and Cholthulzz side of Litany I suppose).

    Is Cholthulzz's alignment really supposed to be lawful good? I find it hard to believe. I mean he did offer to aid the player against the Black Abbot, but (and yes this is casting stereotypes) aren't doomspheres evil by default?
    I mean, I know he's lawful good in the game for purposes of taking damage from stuff, but is his "character" really lawful good?

  8. #8
    Community Member jkm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaervas View Post
    1 more quest springs to mind.
    Ghosts of Perdition (and Cholthulzz side of Litany I suppose).

    Is Cholthulzz's alignment really supposed to be lawful good? I find it hard to believe. I mean he did offer to aid the player against the Black Abbot, but (and yes this is casting stereotypes) aren't doomspheres evil by default?
    I mean, I know he's lawful good in the game for purposes of taking damage from stuff, but is his "character" really lawful good?
    in eberron base alignment is a "guideline"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkm View Post
    i think it depends on what you mean by better:

    a +1 elemental burst weapon will be ML4
    a +1 holy burst weapon will be ML10

    at ML10, the elemental bursts would be at +4.

    the holy will do more damage (2d6 per swing vs 1d6, 3/4/5d6 burst damage vs 1/2/3d10)

    one last thing, mephits are true neutral so holy won't work on them.
    Good point!! Hadn't considered that, I rarely have any trouble hitting anything so far so am not too obsessed with the to-hit bonus.

    Mephits don't cop holy damage?? Are you sure, I use my hb on them and they go down super fast.

  10. #10
    Community Member Kaervas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkm View Post
    in eberron base alignment is a "guideline"
    Yeah, I'm aware of that, I'm wondering if it's actually intended that Cholthulzz is lawful good or if it's just a long-unaddressed bug.

    I've only done Perdition myself (finished my Sigil not too long ago but never got around to doing Litany on the way to 20) so I don't have as good an insight into Cholthulzz's personality and goals as I might do after finishing his wing of Litany.

  11. #11
    Community Member jkm's Avatar
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    one of my requests a long time ago was for them to add "Neutal Outsider" as a favored enemy. of course, they are so annoying that rangers should probably just get it as a default feat.

    because they can spawn another mephit, who can then spawn another mephit, who can then spawn another mephit - they don't tend to have a ton of hit points. the only exceptions are the princes.

  12. #12
    Community Member jkm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaervas View Post
    Yeah, I'm aware of that, I'm wondering if it's actually intended that Cholthulzz is lawful good or if it's just a long-unaddressed bug.

    I've only done Perdition myself (finished my Sigil not too long ago but never got around to doing Litany on the way to 20) so I don't have as good an insight into Cholthulzz's personality and goals as I might do after finishing his wing of Litany.
    he is lawful good. if you talk to him in ghosts, you'll see why he has to fight you even though he doesn't want too.

  13. #13
    Community Member Impatiens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkullJug View Post
    Mephits don't cop holy damage?? Are you sure, I use my hb on them and they go down super fast.
    Mephits and most elementals (with the exception of a few in Shroud) are neutral so they take no damage from holy. They'll get hit by pure good though.

    I'm not sure if Force Burst is available on all weapons yet it is a fairly new mod. It is on handwraps though. It does force damage, same type as magic missiles.

  14. #14
    Community Member Kaervas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkm View Post
    he is lawful good. if you talk to him in ghosts, you'll see why he has to fight you even though he doesn't want too.
    Oh. I feel silly now.
    I did see and hear the DM text where he says something like "it was the only way", but someone else always completed the "talk to cholthulzz" objective in the runs I did by chance, and then I'd forget about it while praying around the chest for the right Sigil Piece.

    Thanks a lot for the info.

  15. #15
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    keep both on you... if ones comes up immune then use the other

    if both are immune then time to buy extra weapons :P

    you'll feel gimped if you only ever carry one or the other and that goes for aligned weapons too

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkm View Post
    a +1 elemental burst weapon will be ML4
    a +1 holy burst weapon will be ML10

    at ML10, the elemental bursts would be at +4.

    the holy will do more damage (2d6 per swing vs 1d6, 3/4/5d6 burst damage vs 1/2/3d10).
    If considering +1 Holyburst and +4 Elemental burst then the results are more even, with the higher crit multi elemental bursts pulling ahead;

    normal: 2D6+1 [8] vs D6+4 [7.5]
    Crit x2: 5D6+2 [19.5] vs D6+D10+8 [17]
    Crit x3: 6D6+3 [24] vs D6+2D10+12 [26.5]
    Crit x4: 7D6+4 [28.5] vs D6+3D10+16 [36]
    Jesus saves but only Buddha makes incremental backups.

  17. #17
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    holy burst is usually better
    but if the element burst is a weakness of certain enemy...
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

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