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  1. #1
    Community Member Kalari's Avatar
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    Default My thoughts on the end game disapointment

    Im writing this to voice my opinions on the path of the game lately. Ive seen a lot of good and bad thrown at the developers for the latest series of Updates. First of all I just want to thank you for continuing to give yourselves to the game. I just wanted to get that out of the way since I do appreciate the dedication to getting updates out quicker now and I remember the wait for EU's launch. That being said I can understand long term players frustration with the way the games been going so far. End game is basically down now to reincarnate and redo everything over again. There really isnt much holding a person to 20 for long since there is nothing to do outside grind shroud for ingredients for others especially if you have all your gear...

    So here we are at level 17-20 weve been there done that with most of the older raids. Some of us have been lucky weve gotten our fill of Titan, got our sets from VOD and Hound and have more greensteels then we know what to do with. We may even be one of the ones who have all our our TOD combos done..

    What now?


    That is the question many hard core power gamers are asking while saying how bored they are with the game. Its easy to look down on these players as doing it to themselves when you forget that many have been playing the game for 3+ years at this pace, they have hit cap several times and work on builds that are powerful. Sure they could have dungeon crawled their way kept a stable of under 10's like some but that does not interest them. They want to be better, build toward such, and enjoy the game that way. I do not fault players like this, nothing feels better then to be able to take on tough bosses and know they will die hopefully before you. The sad thing is you hit a rut once you reach cap by then if you planned right you've geared yourself for just about anything. If your a min/max build its even worst because your basically ready for just about anything and probably included a way to keep yourself up without fail (umd abilities to heal etc).

    So I can understand the cries for epic challenges epic gear etc, etc..

    What I dont get is how easy many forget we have epic style equipment already without running/grinding epic/Mind sunder content for just challenge sake. When you look at it Greensteel is the epic weapon/item creator. Where else can you forge a weapon, goggles, boots, necklace, helm and add attributes that will fit your character? From damage effects to stuff that boosts stats/ immunities/ and or gives AC. Then you have the refuge where even though its system is flawed (lotto needs to go!) You still have the ability to make sets of armor with attributes that can benefit your character even more then the named armor with the exception of the icy rainments.

    I really think the devs released things wrong (this is my only true critisim as well) The shroud and its crafting system should have been released last having it has thrown many of us off to what we think is a standard for loot. I have a sinking feeling that they may have thought that the release of the shroud would be it end game no adding additional levels till they realized many people were getting to 16 enjoying that level and clammoring for more. Thats when someone said "hey lets get them to 20.." But then what? If by level 16 a person had run enough shrouds and refuge runs to get better gear what could they possibly throw at them to challenge them?

    The Mindsunder quests are enjoyable to a point but hardly a challenged for a geared out type and you cannot blame gamers for this. We had nothing to do for a long time save raid when your level 16 unless you purposely went about just avoiding raids. And now we have Epic Desert quests but giving mobs blanket immunities and getting rid of insta death effects isnt a real challenge if you have a group with enough dps via weapons. I think many of us were hoping that there would be a real reason to stay 20's an area where we can go and say "yes we are at the top of our game we have survived many great battles we have achieved the level of 20 which in pen and paper meant getting close to godhood." Only to have the options of continuing to grind at high levels, shelving high level, or reincarnating for more stat points...

    Sigh

    I know I wont be leaving anytime soon for all the characters I have that I think are good and balanced only needing maybe a few more items to really make them stronger, I have those who need to be reincarnated to. But I hope that one day we do see a point where being high level means more then being stuck clamoring for more. I get why some people are upset by end game right now. I refuse to be jaded because I keep myself occupied with the ability to add more builds (something that used to be limited to 7 slots and even less from what I heard before I started playing) So thats good for now. But I remember when we first got a slot increase and how I had a full stable of 16's or near 16's on the server I frequent. I remember how hard it was to sign in knowing that if I was on timer there was not really much point unless someone need me to drag them threw flagging for something and even then it got stale. I hope that does not happen again, but I know that just being able to create 30 characters on different servers wont be enough. vanquishing low-mid levels has been done to death. I think its time for high levels to really be looked at and I dont think im alone on this feeling.

    I dont know what the answer for this is though, having creatures with billions of hp and immunities doesnt seem like a proper answer but who knows? Maybe more challenging landscapes? Explorer areas that are more deadly not just from mobs but the actual area around you land that turns into death traps like sinking pits, having the foliage attack us or being teleported to random areas where you have to fight or solve your way out of problems? Something anything to validate the ones who really did work towards high levels who want to play our high levels. Even if we do not go any futher in levels allow us to enjoy 20. I have faith the creative talents that are our devs here our pleas ignoring those who critize without proper course, are taking our meager ideas and hopefully using them towards real brainstorms. And I really hope one day all levels can be at least somewhat enjoyable to be at. I dont like calling high levels end game, to me to reach end game means just that no reason to play anymore. Id like to see Epic become the new standard for 20 or dare I say 20+ but even if we never get passed 20 id love to have a reason to keep a well planned out character.

    Thats my piece on this issue.
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  2. #2
    Community Member gwlech's Avatar
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    I think that the issue at hand is the mindset behind "endgame". You don't "beat" DDO. It is continuous. Plenty of low to mid game content to run, plenty of new builds to try out.

  3. #3
    Community Member Kalari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwlech View Post
    I think that the issue at hand is the mindset behind "endgame". You don't "beat" DDO. It is continuous. Plenty of low to mid game content to run, plenty of new builds to try out.
    Thats easy to say I dont speak just for myself I know there are builds heck even classes I have not tried yet Paladin is one ive been trying to wrap my mind around and a full monk instead of a splash. But I know and play with people who have one of every class who are going threw the reincarnation process who have been in game since Beta who have truly been there done that. Its easy to throw up plenty to do to anyone who hasnt been there that long but what about those who have who do not move slowly? I think there should be something towards the higher levels that justify getting there.

    Its not about wanting more levels though id even take that, its about getting yourself to cap on a character you may love playing and realizing the only place to go with them is reincarnation which means doing everything theyve done previously over again and over again if they really do add that win ddo feature...

    Thats not a fun future to me, id like to see 20 mean something. Im sure those who dont care about ever getting to that level wont but im not speaking for those players they will find their way to enjoy ddo at the level they wish to. Those of us who like high levels are left with no choice but to start over and I dont feel thats right.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    I currently have 1 capped character and I don't play him.

    Why? I really have no reason to. Epic content? I already ran those quests, why would I want to run them again with mobs with a billion hp? Amrath isn't bad, challenging... but nobody pugs it, because its somewhat easier to short man. So while my character gets lots of offers to run ToD, he hasn't completed one quest out there save Weapons Shipment/Wrath of the Flame.

    I like the mindsunder quests, quick... pretty fun... nice, but not great loot. Safe for everyone of all skill levels to do. No fuss, no pressure, no raid. But my capped toon, only really wanted the Titan Gloves, and upgrading them for repair (since he's human) is not worth it. I already have a tier III great axe, a GS helm and have done my fair share of reavers, shrouds and hounds and at this point, get nothing but plat out of them, which i really can't spend.

    So my choices are really limited to two a) not play him much and let him collect dust or b) true rez him. I'm not unhappy with his build, but with nothing else to do... why not just start him over?

    There is no housing or guild housing, there is nothing for me to sink my plat into save for pots, which i just don't go through anymore because I don't play him much. I'm not sure what it would take to fix this, but there better be a plan soon, before there are a lot of level 20 people... bored out of their minds.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Kalari's Avatar
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    Time sinks would be a great way to alleviate things Grosbeak I would hope that one day they fully realize this and add them. It wouldnt just benefit those who have tons of capped characters either.

    There needs to be stuff to break up the monotony of build, level, grind loot to. But id really like to see more reason to get towards the capped levels and play at that level then to farm stuff for other characters. Right now my favorite character to play is 20 I dont really see a reason to reincarnate her since I feel she can hold her own in most content, I worked solidly on her gear and weapons and got her to where I feel she can be a good contributor to a party..

    But now that shes capped most of the time unless need for a dps role in a raid I dont get to run her much and really dont want to reincarnate her but may have to if im going to play her...

    sure I got other builds and when the mood hits me I play them but I do have my favorites and most of them are capped or near that. I just want to see more things around for me to sign them on and not see them shelved again.
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  6. #6
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    Default Epic desert needs larger difficulty variability

    When the original desert came out, the typical non-powergamer found that the walkup quests were of reasonable difficulty, while the main quest line was perhaps a little difficult. If that was the case, you could run the easier quests for xp and improve your character through leveling as well as thru acquisition of some of the named loot items. Then when you were stronger you could tackle the main quest chain.

    It seems like the new EPIC desert is all one difficulty level, with blanket immunities across the board. Only a certain percentage of the player population (even the lvl 20 population) has the items/time/inclination to tackle these quests (and that group of players is pretty much running it among themselves, ie no PUG-type lfms for EPIC content out there).

    I would prefer it if new areas had a wider range of difficulty levels. I think it would be great if there was one quest that was so over-the-top hard that only the most elite of the powergamers would attempt it, and maybe only after they've gone about making lots of upgrades to there existing gear via the easier quests. But there should also be a quest or 2 for the non-powergamer level 20, which provides the some avenue for acquiring the epic tokens and items (even if at much diminished odds).
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  7. #7
    Community Member Varr's Avatar
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    I'll admit......I've become alarmingly fixated with the level three completionist feats discription. It is what drives my ddo engine right now....."you win, you've beat the game."

    They have provided me a one year plus target and had better address the third plus reincarnates in about a month or less or third capping will trap the goal.
    Varr's all over. Cannith Varr getting the love currently.

  8. #8
    Community Member Kalari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbinB View Post
    When the original desert came out, the typical non-powergamer found that the walkup quests were of reasonable difficulty, while the main quest line was perhaps a little difficult. If that was the case, you could run the easier quests for xp and improve your character through leveling as well as thru acquisition of some of the named loot items. Then when you were stronger you could tackle the main quest chain.

    It seems like the new EPIC desert is all one difficulty level, with blanket immunities across the board. Only a certain percentage of the player population (even the lvl 20 population) has the items/time/inclination to tackle these quests (and that group of players is pretty much running it among themselves, ie no PUG-type lfms for EPIC content out there).

    I would prefer it if new areas had a wider range of difficulty levels. I think it would be great if there was one quest that was so over-the-top hard that only the most elite of the powergamers would attempt it, and maybe only after they've gone about making lots of upgrades to there existing gear via the easier quests. But there should also be a quest or 2 for the non-powergamer level 20, which provides the some avenue for acquiring the epic tokens and items (even if at much diminished odds).
    Thats a good point to Robbin I know that out of most of my level 20s I can only seriously bring 2 or 3 in epic level not from know how from some of them not being fully geared out. My best in epic so far has been my evasion build ranger/rogue who has her gear maxed out has things like bloodstone has the dr trinket from the necro series and really specced towards doing lots of damage. But I have 20s I know would be eaten alive in that area so I havent bothered bringing them threw epic cause it would not be fun and I can only imagine how it would be for those who dont bother to gear and max themselves out.

    I like the epic desert for what it is a distraction but its still not interesting enough to run more then once in awhile even with my guild. I was just hoping that epic meant something different then what we are used to and perhaps in the future it will be.

    Hehe Varr I hope you do get to realize your completionist dreams, ive been thinking about doing that one day to but id still like a reason to break out the level 20's I have to.
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  9. #9
    Founder Alavatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwlech View Post
    I think that the issue at hand is the mindset behind "endgame". You don't "beat" DDO. It is continuous. Plenty of low to mid game content to run, plenty of new builds to try out.
    "Lowgame" now was "endgame" in Feb. 2006.

    "Midgame" now was "endgame" when GH was released (April 2007).

    Just sayin...
    Last edited by Alavatar; 12-18-2009 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Correct/Confirm GH release.

  10. #10
    Founder Alavatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosbeak07 View Post
    I currently have 1 capped character and I don't play him.
    I am somewhat the same. I don't log on my capped characters unless there is a RAID in the LFM that one of them are off timer, or if I want to grind for a particular piece of loot as fast as possible.

    Other than those two situations, I play my lowbies.
    Last edited by Alavatar; 12-18-2009 at 03:02 PM.

  11. #11
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbinB View Post
    When the original desert came out, the typical non-powergamer found that the walkup quests were of reasonable difficulty, while the main quest line was perhaps a little difficult. If that was the case, you could run the easier quests for xp and improve your character through leveling as well as thru acquisition of some of the named loot items. Then when you were stronger you could tackle the main quest chain.

    It seems like the new EPIC desert is all one difficulty level, with blanket immunities across the board. Only a certain percentage of the player population (even the lvl 20 population) has the items/time/inclination to tackle these quests (and that group of players is pretty much running it among themselves, ie no PUG-type lfms for EPIC content out there).

    I would prefer it if new areas had a wider range of difficulty levels. I think it would be great if there was one quest that was so over-the-top hard that only the most elite of the powergamers would attempt it, and maybe only after they've gone about making lots of upgrades to there existing gear via the easier quests. But there should also be a quest or 2 for the non-powergamer level 20, which provides the some avenue for acquiring the epic tokens and items (even if at much diminished odds).
    Perhaps more Epic contenet will help, but what is the motivation to run the quests? To grind for marginally better gear? I'm not opposed to grinding, its a mechanic all MMO's use to keep you subbing, plus once you get what you want... you feel a sense of accomplishment. Now in DDO, doing this for say 12 characters and by character #6 you are spending every penny you have to get taprastries or relics on the AH.

    But with no great gear, the reward to do an epic quest is not equal to the amount of work needed to complete a quest, which is why I'm finding a lot of capped characters, not even bothering.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Baahb3's Avatar
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    I think th purpose of any DM (in this case the Devs) is to challenge his player's characters and the player's ability to cope with situations.

    Even with the limited number of monsters in DDO there are plenty that can be used to create interesting and challenging battles.

    Take the huge entrance chamber in Wiz king for example. Instead of the same mobs with just huge HP and blanket immunities they could have thrown a doomsphere in each alcove with a blue dragon sitting up on the far side breathing lightning down at you and at 50% health the two doors open up on either side releasing some hardy clay golems while some fiendish rust monsters come rushing up from the basement.

    Diversity and challenge are the things that make Epic...well Epic, not attrition and redundancy.

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  13. #13
    Community Member Lorien_the_First_One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwlech View Post
    I think that the issue at hand is the mindset behind "endgame". You don't "beat" DDO. It is continuous. Plenty of low to mid game content to run, plenty of new builds to try out.
    What you don't understand as a new player is that those of us with 3+ years in the game have tried dozens of builds and have run all the content until we know it by heart.

    To the OPs point, to me Epic doesn't mean 1billion HP and blanket immunities. That smells of a bad DM who doesn't know how to create a real challenge. Call it "insane" mode if you want but its not Epic.
    Last edited by Lorien_the_First_One; 12-18-2009 at 03:05 PM.

  14. #14
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Kal thanks for the post

    I for one think that epic was a great idea. It let the devs take the easy way out on lots of high level content. Heck all they had to do was tweak some stats, throw in a few new mobs/traps, and make some cool new loot and they were done. There is only one thing in epic that really bugs me and that is the charm spells lasting shorter then normal. It just does not jive right to me. Give them a slightly higher save instead.

    Now, epic is meant to be for geared characters. By geared I mean very well geared. That's a great thing. It allows for challenging or at least fun content for people who are not casual. At the same time though it does not mean everything else at high levels should be dumbed down.

    End game is when the developers should expect most players to be moderately competent and have some gear. The new stuff for end game should maintain the level of difficulty in end game that the game previously was designed for with demon sands, gh, vale, sub, reaver's refuge, and amarath. The developers are making a serious mistake in thinking that more new players means the game should be made for worse players at end game. Those new players will gain experience soon enough and they will no longer be newbs. Their is another reason why this is a design mistake. Even most casual players will quickly get to the point where Inspired Q/DD are a joke in difficulty and have been played to death. At this point if we keep getting fast/easy quests they will out grow these quickly. Then they will be screwed completely because they will not have ANY HOPE of putting together a casual group for EPIC. In other words, they will feel the content lacking at end game. People who have decent gear they will be running EPIC as a normal thing then. The new stuff will be a joke to them to run fast and hard when leveling and ignored afterwards.
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  15. #15
    Community Member RavenStormclaw's Avatar
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    I hate the term "end-game" There is no such thing when applied to something like DDO. What is end-game? Gianthold? Used to be but not now. The Vale? Used to be but not now. The "end-game" is always changing as it should. The problem is that gamers advance faster then content can be made. It will always be this way.

    While I do not share your frustration I understand it. Shroud crafting was the single biggest mistake ever made in DDO. Allowing people to carrying more then one item of such magnitude was the second. The items border on artifiact type abilities let alone mere epics. There is no way to design any meaningfull dungeons that paties with multiple greensteel items won't fnd trivial. The reason is because you have to design for all the new casual players coming in who won't have all that greensteel. You will hit cap long before you could comple 20 Shrouds (the average time to craft a tier III weapon without outside help)...let alone craft a weapon and some type of item. Thus these players will be entering these higher level quests without all of the raid gear and greensteel the older player base has.

    As an example my FvS is now 14... yet I have never done the Dragon raid, skipped the desert altogether and have entered the vale having less than 1/2 of the relics I need to flag for the Reaver raid.

    In the end the new quests are balanced for the core of new players we have gotten who are going to hti those levels long before they have acquired all the power gear that the older player base has. I know your frustation but you can not fault Turbine for that choice. It was a business decions. Like it or not it was a wise one.

    As a corrolary to this the only way to fix this problem would lead to open revolt and a mass exodus of veteran players. You know what I'm saying. Greensteel really has to go. However, I realize Turbine will never do this and so the problem will remain.

    Gods I am sorry for being so long winded.

  16. #16
    Community Member Kalari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_the_First_One View Post
    What you don't understand as a new player is that those of us with 3+ years in the game have tried dozens of builds and have run all the content until we know it by heart.
    Heck even those of us with 2 years in Im sorry I know in my heart im a powergamer now I didnt start out that way was more then content with having 1 level 16 and worked on tons of lowbies..till I realized as I played them more gained levels and gear and got them stronger that hey I like this.

    So I and others who enjoy higher levels are supposed to be penalized for not constantly stopping to smell the roses? I never got this mentality (sorry Lorien not addressing you just agreeing with what your posting).

    I get it its our faults for enjoying high levels we should all just make low-mid level builds and stick with that area.. So if thats the case why even have it go to 20? I still maintain that Epic level needs something more to it then just "hey I got to twenty now its time to reroll, shelf or their golden reroll of reincarnate."
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  17. #17
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baahb3 View Post
    I think th purpose of any DM (in this case the Devs) is to challenge his player's characters and the player's ability to cope with situations.

    Even with the limited number of monsters in DDO there are plenty that can be used to create interesting and challenging battles.

    Take the huge entrance chamber in Wiz king for example. Instead of the same mobs with just huge HP and blanket immunities they could have thrown a doomsphere in each alcove with a blue dragon sitting up on the far side breathing lightning down at you and at 50% health the two doors open up on either side releasing some hardy clay golems while some fiendish rust monsters come rushing up from the basement.

    Diversity and challenge are the things that make Epic...well Epic, not attrition and redundancy.

    Use the tools that you have and let your imaginations run!
    This sort of idea, would be interesting to me and might even get me to do epic.
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  18. #18
    Dragonmark of Making Kalanth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_the_First_One View Post
    What you don't understand as a new player is that those of us with 3+ years in the game have tried dozens of builds and have run all the content until we know it by heart.
    Nail on the head here. While there are some that make the effort I consistently feel a strong rift growing between F2P players and Vets. The F2P don't understand the complaints the vets have because it is all shinny and new for them. They have only done Delera's a few times, not a few hundred. They are not working on their 100th shroud with one of ten capped characters, they are likely not even working on their first. At this stage in the game there is little content to challenge and entertain the vets of DDO and the suggestion of just starting over to try a new build won't cut it anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_the_First_One View Post
    To the OPs point, to me Epic doesn't mean 1billion HP and blanket immunities. That smells of a bad DM who doesn't know how to create a real challenge. Call it "insane" mode if you want but its not Epic.
    In terms of endgame I do not believe that Epic is the best solution. It brings the old quests back into the light again, sure, but I don't want to run the old quests. I love the desert, that is one of my favorite designed modules in the games history, but at level 20 it is not something I am looking to do again. I want new quests that are challenging mroe than I want old quests that are for non-casual players. And blanket immunities have been a problem since the Devs decided to tuck boss monsters into bed ages and a day ago. The best move they made in regards to that was making red names able to have stat damage again (be it only 10 points). Open that up to purple monsters too, as it would be in PnP.

  19. #19
    Community Member Kalari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Kal thanks for the post

    I for one think that epic was a great idea. It let the devs take the easy way out on lots of high level content. Heck all they had to do was tweak some stats, throw in a few new mobs/traps, and make some cool new loot and they were done. There is only one thing in epic that really bugs me and that is the charm spells lasting shorter then normal. It just does not jive right to me. Give them a slightly higher save instead.

    Now, epic is meant to be for geared characters. By geared I mean very well geared. That's a great thing. It allows for challenging or at least fun content for people who are not casual. At the same time though it does not mean everything else at high levels should be dumbed down.

    End game is when the developers should expect most players to be moderately competent and have some gear. The new stuff for end game should maintain the level of difficulty in end game that the game previously was designed for with demon sands, gh, vale, sub, reaver's refuge, and amarath. The developers are making a serious mistake in thinking that more new players means the game should be made for worse players at end game. Those new players will gain experience soon enough and they will no longer be newbs. Their is another reason why this is a design mistake. Even most casual players will quickly get to the point where Inspired Q/DD are a joke in difficulty and have been played to death. At this point if we keep getting fast/easy quests they will out grow these quickly. Then they will be screwed completely because they will not have ANY HOPE of putting together a casual group for EPIC. In other words, they will feel the content lacking at end game. People who have decent gear they will be running EPIC as a normal thing then. The new stuff will be a joke to them to run fast and hard when leveling and ignored afterwards.
    Yep I feel the same way Cyr and I just think they did not realize that they would get to this point of even opening up 20 and that the vale was supposed to be it. I refuse to believe with the way epic was laid out (redone desert) and the mindsunder quests which I enjoy for a change but do not see a true challenge to a geared out party as something Epic levels can utilize and enjoy.

    And oh man Baah your suggestion would be nice, I did like epic chains of flame (was the only one out of the group to) but I liked that dungeon anyway on my evasion builds. The change of traps was fun the air elees not so much but it did keep the heart pounding. I just hope one day Epic content involves something new somthing that people cant just breeze threw with tons of gear/plat/or worst in store items to throw at it. But maybe im alone in this thought.

    And Raven I hear you but I know id personally leave if Greensteel was taken out now or if they made any changes to it. You cant introduce something like that then take it out, look at the nerf to w/p many people were upset but knew they had the fall back, if they took out greensteels without providing a proper fall back weaponry/item maker it would be a disaster. I really think the shroud as fun as it still is for me should have been released as the epic level raid. Crafting itself should have been for epic levels as well though it feeds back to my thought that the vale truly was the "end game" they had planned before the relaunch of ddo as Ebberon Unlimited.
    Kalari-Lost Legions resident Drunking Gaming Diva!
    Im not bad Im morally Obtuse...
    *Enter my Den..*/*Live RPG fun on Skype*

  20. #20
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalari View Post
    Heck even those of us with 2 years in Im sorry I know in my heart im a powergamer now I didnt start out that way was more then content with having 1 level 16 and worked on tons of lowbies..till I realized as I played them more gained levels and gear and got them stronger that hey I like this.

    So I and others who enjoy higher levels are supposed to be penalized for not constantly stopping to smell the roses? I never got this mentality (sorry Lorien not addressing you just agreeing with what your posting).

    I get it its our faults for enjoying high levels we should all just make low-mid level builds and stick with that area.. So if thats the case why even have it go to 20? I still maintain that Epic level needs something more to it then just "hey I got to twenty now its time to reroll, shelf or their golden reroll of reincarnate."
    No, it's not your fault. No, no one is penalizing you. Content takes time. Balancing takes time.

    Remember, this time last year this game was barely hanging on. Only thing that kept many people was the ambigous "soon" and such.

    Basically DDO has been relaunched. New systems were implemented that the Devs felt were needed such as Grazing Hits and Dungeon Alert.
    The game got a breath of new life with the p2p model that has bought many new people to the game.
    All of that took a lot of Dev time and work.

    If you are a powergamer no company can keep up with your ability to blaze though new content.

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