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  1. #1
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    Default Tell us how many players are needed for quests

    I think this is a simple request.

    There are some quests in the game which are designed to be run with a minimum number of players. These quests require two or more characters standing on switches to open a gate, or some other multicharacter coordination. Would it be possible for an alert to be places at the quest "difficulty level" selection screen. I don't want to be locked out of the quest if I'm don't have a large enough party, but I would like to know ahead of time if I'm waiting my time trying to complete an impossible quest.

    I just spent 2 or 3 hours trying to get through "the pit". I got all the way to the furnace room three when I discovered my folly. I know it is possible to solo with enough jump skill and jumping twitch skills. Unfortunately, I was lacking at least one of the two.

    I don't mind non-soloable quests, I'd just like to know what I'm getting into before I waste a bunch of time.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radix13 View Post
    I know it is possible to solo with enough jump skill and jumping twitch skills.
    ...
    I don't mind non-soloable quests, I'd just like to know what I'm getting into before I waste a bunch of time.
    So what specifically are you asking for? You say yourself that The Pit is not actually non-soloable...

  3. #3
    Community Member Sirea's Avatar
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    Coulda bought a hireling to hit switches for you.
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  4. #4
    Community Member BattleCircle's Avatar
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    Actually, a description saying that a quest must have a second party member to complete is not a bad idea. But only for those quests that need a switch puller. Been there done that

  5. #5
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    Angelus

    Yes. I know the Pit can be soloed, but it was not designed to be. It was designed to be run by a group. People have found inventive ways to solo quests like this, even though it was not the intention of the devs.

    The short answer is. If a quest was designed to be run with a minimum number of players, I'd like to know before starting it.

  6. #6
    Community Member oberon131313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radix13 View Post
    Angelus

    Yes. I know the Pit can be soloed, but it was not designed to be. It was designed to be run by a group. People have found inventive ways to solo quests like this, even though it was not the intention of the devs.

    The short answer is. If a quest was designed to be run with a minimum number of players, I'd like to know before starting it.
    all quests that aren't solo only or raids are *designed* to be ran by 4 players at that level.
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  7. #7
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    Quest descriptions in your Quest Panel already include the recommended amount of players you need. If you go into a quest with less than the recommended amount and encounter a situation that needs the recommended amount, well you were warned. :-)
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  8. #8
    Community Member Bogenbroom's Avatar
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    I think a simple warning on the quest entry dialog (similar to the "You don't have this quest" message) saying "This quest contains mechanics making it difficult or impossible to complete without X number of party members" could be helpful and not all that difficult to create.

    Personally, I would never suggest short manning a quest that you've never completed before, but, hey, my way is not the rule. Should be, but isn't.
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  9. #9
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    Every quest has a "Recommended # of Players" right on the quest description. Sure it can be done with less, but they tell you right there what they recommend.

  10. #10
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltraMonk2 View Post
    Quest descriptions in your Quest Panel already include the recommended amount of players you need. If you go into a quest with less than the recommended amount and encounter a situation that needs the recommended amount, well you were warned. :-)
    ^^ Winner! ^^


    Quote Originally Posted by Bogenbroom View Post
    I think a simple warning on the quest entry dialog (similar to the "You don't have this quest" message) saying "This quest contains mechanics making it difficult or impossible to complete without X number of party members" could be helpful and not all that difficult to create.
    This borders on being a spoiler. It also seems un-needed given the quest already tells you the recommended number of players.
    /sigh

  11. #11
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    The other problem is that while the quests are designed for a party of 4 (or so) to tackle without having too much problem, when you attempt to solo a quest it is often more than just the number of bodies you have in there that matter.

    In some quests, it is EASY for a skilled caster to beat the quest solo, while a melee is almost certain to fail. Many of the Protect quests are like this. Powerful IK spells or CC are needed to solo successfully in some of those quests.

    So would they also need to add a character class disclaimer too?

    Back on point...OP, however did you not have fun and enjoy yourself playing a game for a few hours anyway and enjoy finding ways to handle things on your own. Isn't having fun the point of the game. Furnace 3 can be done solo. It becomes almost trivial with a hireling to flip some steam switches for you. (For a few gold in the marketplace or even TP from the store, you could have completed that room.)
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  12. #12
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    In a game where grouping is a key element of design, I say soloist beware. You made the choice to go in by yourself, without even a hireling, so why is this the Devs fault? I think the most they should do is remove the Solo option from quests that utterly require two people to pull levers... but most of these are already in quest chains that don't have the solo option enabled (a huge hint you may need more people), or raids.

    If you want to solo in a grouping game - so be it. But I don't see why the Devs need to take the time to cater to the dedicated soloist anymore than they need to cater to Permadeath, Roleplayers, or any other niche style that a given player elects to take upon themselves.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Letrii's Avatar
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    I fail to see how a warning that quest design makes soloing it impossible as opposed to due to not being created for solo is catering to soloists.

    All he is asking is there be an indicator that you need a party due to mechanics and not mutual survivability as most quests are.


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  14. #14
    Community Member Lirial's Avatar
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    Do people really not look at quest descriptions? says it right there for "most" quests how many people are recommended. i say most because not all quests have it but the pit does im sure

  15. #15
    Community Member Letrii's Avatar
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    Again, there is difference between recommended number based on combat features and number required due to limiting functions of mechanics of quest.


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
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  16. #16
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Default Warning: Opinions Ahead.

    Chalk it up to a difference of opinion, then, Letrii.

    I call it "catering" because it would require a Dev to clear their slate of work that could be of use to the community as a whole - to expressly fill a request that would benefit a niche style of play. So, why not also implement any/all of the Permadeath and Roleplaying niche's requests that have been made over the years as well? Hell, maybe Turbine should hire a Dev simply to code things that suit every person's ideal version of the game...

    There is a difference between a request that would help the majority of players, and ones that would be of only some help to a very few.

    As I said, since the game is designed to be a grouping game, then soloing is a choice. And part of that choice may be running into a quest or two that requires grouping - since that is how the game is built to be played. In my opinion, that is part of the gamble of soloing. I solo quite often, and when I have run into it I make a mental note to come back with a group next time. And, there are only a few scant quests that fall under that heading... too few to justify a Dev putting in the time needed to fulfill this request, in my view.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Lirial's Avatar
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    Like he said its an mmo not an mso

  18. #18
    Community Member Letrii's Avatar
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    I understand about dev time, but how many quests are we talking about that would need to have not-solo friendly tag added?


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
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  19. #19
    Hero Morningfrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogenbroom View Post
    Personally, I would never suggest short manning a quest that you've never completed before, but, hey, my way is not the rule. Should be, but isn't.
    It shoud be this way, but as a new player I've found that it's almost impossible to understand a quest without soloing it. If I group, usually I tell if a quest is new to me or not, but this has never changed anything, I often find myself running around following others but nothing more then this.

    For the first week or so (first time in WW) I also got the frustrating feeling that this game was around from a long while (yeah, it is actually so! Blame Turbine for their advertising in Europe before going free) and every player knew every corner of everything.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letrii View Post
    I understand about dev time, but how many quests are we talking about that would need to have not-solo friendly tag added?
    That used to be a much more clear cut line in the sand...before hirelings were available, and even then many quests COULD be done with careful timing of certain effects on enemy mobs (Stone to flesh, Hold, etc. for many trigger plates.)

    There is a significant issue with deciding on the setting to put on something like the pit. It can clearly be soloed and is, but the steam valve flipping in Furnace Room 3 is not easy. Is ease to be a consideration? Is a quest like Rest for the Restless soloable or not? Define solo? You can Dim Door and finish it easy, or recall and reenter too, just as easily. There are two quests I can think of off hand that require two characters to pull off (one is Delara's 2 with the series of gates and the swithc, and there a hireling can do it easily, the other is in Necro with the passing of the Gears thru the gate to pull both switches, BUT, I have heard of people being able to do it alone...) A few Raids have spots that are impossible to do alone (Von 5 parts for example).

    What level of skill or dedication are you willing to presume in determining if something can be soloed? And even then, what sort of disclaimer would be needed. Yes you can solo this if you are a masochist and willing to devote your waking hours to gathering enough gear, supplies and pots to survive and build the right toon for the job type warning? What about quests with optionals that cannot be soloed? Even Waterworks has some of those.

    In My Opinion, unless the quest has a specific SOLO option, you should enter it assuming that completion might require a group. If you can complete it alone, then good for you, but the game already indicates the nature of the quest. It is kinda ironic but the new quest in the Inspired Quarter that is SOLO only, would actually be more fun I think with a group in a much easier Coal Chamber / Pit kinda way. The NPC's have a whole group trying to break in, why can't the characters....
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