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  1. #781
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
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    +1 nice work Junts. T
    On Khyber: Tchpostick (Monk 20) Tablespoon (WF barb20), Pspoon (Eleven Cleric20), Tsirio (Halfling Bard18), Silvr (Human Rogue2/Wizard18), Ladle (Elven Cleric11), Forq (Human Bard14), Sporkk (Human Fighter lvl20), Tspatula (monk20)

  2. #782
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    assorted editing done.

  3. #783
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    The coming addition of greater reincarnation removes the 28 point build problem as anything but temporary, so long as you're willing to pay the cost or grind the tokens to do a greater reincarnation to a 32 point build in the future.
    I thought you could only buy Greater Hearts via the store, or get them as random loot. Has the 20 token turn-in been extended from True Hearts to Greater Hearts as well?
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  4. #784
    Community Member karnokvolrath's Avatar
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    Its been a while since i first read this thread and originally +1ed you. Sometime when it came out i was already working on a melee with the intent of TRing him twice for 36 points build so i could make a paladin (lets be honest of all the classes paladin gains maybe the most by the extra build points).

    Well i finally got there with my fighter and barb past lives (altaholic, it took me forever lol) and came back to look over your guide. I came to look over a few small things and ended up reading it word for word completely over again, it still rocks, it only seemed right to +1 you again.
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  5. #785

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    Do the crafted weapons make Holy Sword obsolete?

    About to be level 13 I just now finished crafting the following, holding off on the Enhancement Bonuses until I find I need them:

    Holy Cold Iron Greatsword of Chaotic Outsider Bane
    Holy Silver Greatsword of Lawful Outsider Bane

    I can make them +3 for min level 13, or wait until level 15 and make them +4. Seems to me that the banes make even the +3 versions on par with Holy Sword. For some reason I thought Holy Sword came with Evil Outsider Bane, but I don't see it in your writeup.

    (As a first-lifer I can only dream of affording a silver or cold iron falchion.)

  6. #786
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Do the crafted weapons make Holy Sword obsolete?

    About to be level 13 I just now finished crafting the following, holding off on the Enhancement Bonuses until I find I need them:

    Holy Cold Iron Greatsword of Chaotic Outsider Bane
    Holy Silver Greatsword of Lawful Outsider Bane

    I can make them +3 for min level 13, or wait until level 15 and make them +4. Seems to me that the banes make even the +3 versions on par with Holy Sword. For some reason I thought Holy Sword came with Evil Outsider Bane, but I don't see it in your writeup.

    (As a first-lifer I can only dream of affording a silver or cold iron falchion.)
    Other than the inherent proevil and byeshi, yes they do

    Keep in mind that you can probably find blanks at brokers, especially the market one. Few new players know how useful they are
    Of course if you're on ghalanda you should send your cold iron falchion to me instead.

    What you have are better than hsword for the appropriate mobs.

  7. #787
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    Default My Version of a Paladin (Holy Avenger)

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Silventra Brightblade
    Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
    (18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 314
    Spell Points: 290 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 17
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 10
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             15                 18                   18
    Dexterity            17                 17                   17
    Constitution         12                 12                   12
    Intelligence         10                 10                   10
    Wisdom                8                  8                    8
    Charisma             16                 18                   18
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               7                  8                    8
    Bluff                 3                  4                    4
    Concentration         1.5                9.5                  9.5
    Diplomacy             4                  5                    5
    Disable Device        4                  4                    4
    Haggle                7                  8                    8
    Heal                  0                  2                    2
    Hide                  3                  3                    3
    Intimidate            3                  4                    4
    Jump                  3                  5                    5
    Listen               -1                  0                    2
    Move Silently         3                  3                    3
    Open Lock             7                 11                   11
    Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                0                  0                    0
    Search                4                  7                    9
    Spot                  3                  6                    8
    Swim                  2                  4                    4
    Tumble                4                  4                    4
    Use Magic Device      5                 15                   15
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Drow Spell Resistance
    Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
    Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Shuriken Expertise
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I
    Enhancement: Follower of Vulkoor
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
    Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
    Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
    Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity
    Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense I
    Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
    Spell (1): Bless
    Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
    Spell (1): Divine Favor
    Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
    Spell (1): Lionheart
    Spell (1): Protection From Evil
    Spell (1): Resistance
    Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest
    Spell (1): Virtue
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
    Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease
    Enhancement: Vulkoor's Avatar
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
    Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
    
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense II
    Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Spell (2): Angelskin
    Spell (2): Bull's Strength
    Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
    Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
    Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
    Spell (2): Resist Energy
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
    Spell (3): Dispel Magic
    Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
    Spell (3): Prayer
    Spell (3): Remove Blindness
    Spell (3): Remove Curse
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    Skill: Search (+0.5)
    Skill: Spot (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar III
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Spell (4): Break Enchantment
    Spell (4): Cure Serious Wounds
    Spell (4): Deathward
    Spell (4): Holy Sword
    Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
    Spell (4): Restoration
    Spell (4): Stalwart Pact
    Spell (4): Zeal
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    Skill: Search (+0.5)
    Skill: Spot (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning III
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
    Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
    Any Input or Help is Welcomed as I haven't started this character yet, but in Planning Stages. Tho I would like to add more to pick locks, finding secret doors and avoiding traps, at 2 skill points per Paladin Levels. Is it even possible?
    Also of note, 28-pt Build Drow and No Tomes. f2p with Shan-to-Kor and Catacombs open. Any other info Needed?

    I should start another thread, but I'd rather play DDO instead of Threading. Forgot to Mention, will need to up my Wisdom with Gear by +6 to cast 4th Lvl Spells, but with TWF line and Divine Might and Sacrifice, I could take off 2 Strength and add +3 to Wisdom for 11 and Need +3 Gear to make 14. Kill Things First and Fast and Hope to Survive. LOL
    Last edited by MajorTHC; 06-05-2011 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Forgot To Mention

  8. #788

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    I'd start a new thread to get feedback on your build. I have definite thoughts on it, (eg: Heal is useless, and search and spot need approaching 20 points to be useful) but I think it's worth having its own thread.

    My very first character (since rerolled) is very similar to yours, but after some minor tweaking the new version is level 13 and doing quite well.

  9. #789
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    gratuitous bump from 3rd page

  10. #790
    Community Member PointyRhiana's Avatar
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    Rerolling my pally, and was looking at this thread.

    Is the following build still good?

    VII. Sample 20 TWF Drow DPS

    Lawful Good Drow Paladin 20

    Str: 15 + 5 level ups (+6 item, +2 tome, +3 exceptional= 30, 32 with a +3 tome)
    Dex: 16 (+1 tome qualifies for twf)
    Con: 12 (+6 item, +2 tome for 20)
    Int: 10 (2 skill points; +2 tome helps for extra)
    Wis: 8 (+2 tome and +6 item is 16)
    Cha: 17 (+3 tome for divine might 3; 26-28 charisma equipped)

    Feats:

    1: Toughness
    3: Two-Weapon Fighting
    6: Extend Spell
    9: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
    12: Improved critical: Piercing weapons
    15: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
    18: Power Attack

    Skills: Balance and Use Magic Device, every level. 2 ranks in tumble to enable tumbling at lv 1 (come from balance). With +2 tome, get some jump.

    Enhancements:

    Knight of the Chalice 1-3 (8 ap)
    Courage of Good 1-2 (3 ap, pre-req)
    Energy of the Templar 1-2 (3 ap, pre-req)
    Divine Sacrifice 1-3 (6 ap)
    Divine Might 1-4 (10 ap)
    Extra Lay on Hands 1-3 (6 ap)
    Extra Smiting 1-4 (10 ap, pre-req)
    Exalted Smiting 1-4 (10 ap)
    Racial Toughness 1-2 (3 AP)
    Paladin Toughness 1-2 (3 ap)
    Follower of the Sovereign Host (2 ap, pre-req)
    Unyielding Sovereignty (4 ap, pre-req)
    Paladin Weapons of Good (2 ap)
    Drow weapon damage 1-2 (6 ap)
    Paladin Charisma I (if needed for even)
    2 action points of your choice
    I have Drow unlocked via favor.

    I need 17 Dex and 20 Cha as soon as I can get them, right? Aside from that, it's all pretty clear... if this build is still good I aim to mainly solo, but groups are easy to find when really needed in f2p areas.

  11. #791
    Community Member jackel_inognito's Avatar
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    Lawful Good Human Paladin 18 / rogue 2 (rogue levels at 1 and 10)

    Str: 16 + 5 level ups (6 item, 1 human enh, 3 exceptional, 2 tome = 33, 34 with +3 tome)
    Dex: 15 + 2 tome (qualifies for twf .. if +1 tome only, reverse str/dex)
    Con: 12 (20 with tome and item)
    Int: 8 (2 skill points)
    Wis: 8 (16 with tome and item)
    Cha: 16 + 2 tome (qualifies for DM3: 26 charisma with assorted gear)

    Note: to do this w/o 32 point builds, go 15 16 12 8 8 16 drow, and drop Khopesh from the feat list.

    1: Toughness
    1: Two-Weapon Fighting
    3: Exotic Prof: Khopesh
    6: Extend Spell
    9: Improved TWF
    12: Improved critical: slash
    15: Greater TWF
    18: Power Attack

    Level 1 rogue: 4 ranks in balance, use magic device, tumble, jump, intimidate, pick lock, Haggle, 2 other skills of your choice
    Paladin levels: 2 points in UMD
    Rogue 10: 4 pick lock, 3 wherever you like

    Knight of the Chalice 1-3 (8 ap)
    Courage of Good 1-2 (3 ap, pre-req)
    Energy of the Templar 1-2 (3 ap, pre-req)
    Divine Sacrifice 1-2 (3 ap)
    Divine Might 1-3 (6 ap)
    Extra Lay on Hands 1-3 (6 ap)
    Extra Smiting 1-4 (10 ap, pre-req)
    Exalted Smiting 1-4 (10 ap)
    Racial Toughness 1-2 (3 AP)
    Paladin Toughness 1-3 (6 ap)
    Follower of the Sovereign Host (2 ap, pre-req)
    Unyielding Sovereignty (4 ap, pre-req)
    Human adaptability: Strength (2 ap)
    Human improved recovery 1-2 (6 ap)
    paladin charisma 1 (if needed to be even, 2 ap)
    Rogue Sneak Attack Training 1 (1 ap)
    Rogue Haste Boost 1 (1 ap)
    Paladin resistance of good 1 (1 ap)

    As you can see, the splash build picks up substantial abilities (12 umd, evasion, haste boost, and more racial enhancements) in return for its loss of max dps.



    can someone explain this to me in terms that i would understand?

    also in the above build you continually said to use tomes but i cant get any tomes as i have no bank behind the character. i know that they can be found but i never have so what am i to do until i can get enough money to buy them
    "If you spank it, you tank it!"

  12. #792
    Community Member Zenthalas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackel_inognito View Post

    also in the above build you continually said to use tomes but i cant get any tomes as i have no bank behind the character. i know that they can be found but i never have so what am i to do until i can get enough money to buy them
    play a fighter or a barb a pali w/o tomes backing it up is sub par.

  13. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackel_inognito View Post
    also in the above build you continually said to use tomes but i cant get any tomes as i have no bank behind the character. i know that they can be found but i never have so what am i to do until i can get enough money to buy them
    Obviously, luck varies - you may pull all of the tomes you want/need. But in my case, the first tome I pulled was from the 20th shroud completion list, well after I was 20th level. Personally, I would shy away from a first build that required tomes to be effective.

    +1 tomes are not too expensive on the auction house, but you might not have the plat to buy them at level 3. I think most first characters probably can't afford +2 tomes until well after level 7, although there are certainly threads on here advising how to make money and it can be done.

    My first character was a Paladin, but using THF rather than TWF. TWF is much better for a pally, as the enhancements are more dependent on number of hits than damage of an individual hit. But I would still recommend THF if this is your first character - build points are not stretched so thin, tomes not as critical, costs less to outfit, etc.

  14. #794
    Community Member Claymorep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bozone View Post
    TWF is much better for a pally, as the enhancements are more dependent on number of hits than damage of an individual hit. But I would still recommend THF if this is your first character - build points are not stretched so thin, tomes not as critical, costs less to outfit, etc.
    This is not completly true and it depends of what we consider.

    A 2wf pally is better in dps terms if the weapon we intend is a Lit2 (lit2 kopeshes vs a lit2 falchion), but when we consider a better 2h weapon like an eXuum or an sSos the distance is very close. The 2handed esos is anyway better vs high dr content like shroud, tod, vod hard/elite. Moreover the 2hf have another advantage on multiple mobs as all pally extra damage adds on glancing blows too. If the environmental is epic the balance weight more on 2hf side due to high dr and high ac guys.
    Another advantage of 2hf is the numbers of feats that allow him to be a selfhealer (not entirely allowed to a 2wf).
    Normally a 2wf is a splashed 18/2 so no capstone and another stat to improve and evasion as benefit while a 2hf is a pure pally with advantages connected.

    Both styles have their advantages and disadvantages (every one can chose which he prefers) so I don't say that 2hf is better but saying that 2wf is better is a bit old as idea, near 3 years old (when lvl 16 was capstone and shroud weapons were the best).

  15. #795
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymorep View Post
    This is not completly true and it depends of what we consider.

    A 2wf pally is better in dps terms if the weapon we intend is a Lit2 (lit2 kopeshes vs a lit2 falchion), but when we consider a better 2h weapon like an eXuum or an sSos the distance is very close. The 2handed esos is anyway better vs high dr content like shroud, tod, vod hard/elite. Moreover the 2hf have another advantage on multiple mobs as all pally extra damage adds on glancing blows too. If the environmental is epic the balance weight more on 2hf side due to high dr and high ac guys.
    Another advantage of 2hf is the numbers of feats that allow him to be a selfhealer (not entirely allowed to a 2wf).
    Normally a 2wf is a splashed 18/2 so no capstone and another stat to improve and evasion as benefit while a 2hf is a pure pally with advantages connected.

    Both styles have their advantages and disadvantages (every one can chose which he prefers) so I don't say that 2hf is better but saying that 2wf is better is a bit old as idea, near 3 years old (when lvl 16 was capstone and shroud weapons were the best).
    Even with epic weapons vs dual lit2/crafted khopeshes, and/or epic chaosblades, the twf setup is substantially stronger in DPS. The gap is smaller, but it's still present and of a non-insignificant quantity.

    THF with healing and twf without the capstone are relatively competitive with each other, with which is better depending more on your other equipment than anything else.

    It is substantially harder to pull off twf due to feat and stat requirements, but for most 32 pt and definitely all tr'd paladins, twf is substantially better performance overall.

    The main advantage of the thf esos build is that it pretty much never has to-hit issues, whereas twf has to be very careful about to-hit in some situations.

  16. #796

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    The main advantage of the thf esos build is that it pretty much never has to-hit issues, whereas twf has to be very careful about to-hit in some situations.
    I'm a f2p first-lifer, level 14 (with rogue splash for evasion) and TR is definitely the plan though still a ways away. As a 28pter I'm THF, also have a tempest trapmonkey up to level 11 dual-wielding khopeshes to get a feel for TWF.

    Right now I'm starting to lean toward THF even after TR for a few reasons, and to-hit issues is one of the bigger ones. (I could also buff both str and cha with 6 extra points to improve the overall character in many ways instead of dropping them all on dex for TWF and little else.)

    I'm aware that this goes against expert advice. Could you help convince me that TWF is the way to go? (Note: Even after TR I'll be doing evasion splash so I wouldn't even get the benefit of a good-aligned eSoS.)

  17. #797
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I'm a f2p first-lifer, level 14 (with rogue splash for evasion) and TR is definitely the plan though still a ways away. As a 28pter I'm THF, also have a tempest trapmonkey up to level 11 dual-wielding khopeshes to get a feel for TWF.

    Right now I'm starting to lean toward THF even after TR for a few reasons, and to-hit issues is one of the bigger ones. (I could also buff both str and cha with 6 extra points to improve the overall character in many ways instead of dropping them all on dex for TWF and little else.)

    I'm aware that this goes against expert advice. Could you help convince me that TWF is the way to go? (Note: Even after TR I'll be doing evasion splash so I wouldn't even get the benefit of a good-aligned eSoS.)
    The capstone upgrade for thf (esos vs other weapons, ie ideally a crafted holyburst/greater bane falchion) is a lot larger than the capstone upgrade for twf (epic chaosblades vs crafted holyburst/greater bane khopeshes). While the capstone damage itself is better in twf mode, the weapon choice options permitted by the capstone are heavily favorable to thf. An 18/2 build loses a lot more by thfing because non-epic thf weapons are a lot further behind non-epic twf weapons. While dual epic chaosblades (or even dual crafted khopeshes) are a little better than an epic sos, dual lit2 or crafted khopeshes are a lot better than a lit2 or crafted falchion!

    When I tr'd my 18/2 twf into 36 points, I was able to start it at base 18 str as well. 32 pt humans are quite viable in terms of twfing, so adding 4 build points is usually adding a str point or two. I brought a couple tomes through tr with me (+3 in cha and dex) so I was able to use that to shave off another 4 build points (2 in each stat), and use the 8 build points to raise str from 16 to 18 and con from 12 to 14. Without the tomes, you can still upgrade yourself in a useful fashion. Remember your cha requirement w/o 20 paladin is also lower, since you can't ever get divine might 4 anyway, you don't have to worry about qualifying for it. 16+2 tome isn't that onerous.

    As a splash build, you should also be able to access oversized twf, which is tough for pure twf builds to get, and that will also mitigate some hit issues. You can also add in something easily available for destruction (a destruction dragontouched in your case, since good dps evasion armor will take a while to acquire because its red and dragonscaley), and in the long term, something easily available and effective like epic kronzek's cruelty (2d6 base, shocking burst, maiming, lightning strike, improved destruction) can be offhanded in those situations.

    My twf paladin used to worry a lot about to-hit. I did fighter as my 34 pt life because I was worried about my hit more than adding damage, and I was concerned about dropping my epic spectrals for gloves of the claw (in fact, the reason I tr'd the way I did was to use the +1 from fighter and +1 from my bracket to mitigate the difference between +4 competence on spectrals and +2 competence on the bardsong), but I'm just not finding it to be an issue the way it used to be. Many foes my bard and monk notice ac against are evil outsiders (orthons in chrono, turigulon in epic devil assault, etc), and a kotc gets substantial hit benefits vs those foes. Further, I can craft high-end crafted Khopeshes, which are +8 weapons vs the proper foes. One of the notorious hit-checks out there are the djinni in von6, who have a very comfortably substantial ac. Even though my khopeshes are holy greater chaotic outsiderbanes, the 3d6 and +8 total bonus make them by far my best weapons, and I can even fight those guys with power attack now with normal bard buffs (without a bard, I'd want to destruct them too).

    I no longer consider the hit issues as crippling as it used to feel, and I dont think I had to tr to achieve it, it's more a question of better hit being available to me, etc. My hit is high enough that my crafted greater lawful bane khopeshes let me run power attack on Malicia, and she's probably the hardest single mob to hit in the game - you almost always get a -4 penalty dealing with her movement and she can't be incapacitated via dances or webs or holds for significant ac loss the way trash mobs can.

    Even with a lot less holds flying around, I'm just not concerned about it as much as I used to be.

    Sure, there is a big advantage to my 18 base str, +4 tome using paladin who thfs with sos (he's a defender of siberys, so his str is actually extremely high for a paladin) being able to die, pop up and -still- hit even when missing buffs, but its not as big an advantage as it used to be. If you play smartly and recognize that sometimes you will have to mitigate to-hit problems and prepare yourself accordingly, they won't impact you that much.

    While some of the stuff I listed isn't readily easily available (crafted weapons, epic kronzeks etc), substitutes are readily available. Cheap holy/greater bane random weapons with no silver sell real well, and none of the mobs i listed actually require silver bypass but turigulon. You could prepare for the von6 djinni with axiomatic greater chaotic banes and tear them up. You can easily get imp destruction random weapons instead of kronzeks (whos main advantage is that it doesnt punish you if you use it for more than 3 swings after applying it because its dps is also pretty good).

    I don't know how serious a powergamer you are, but if you keep in mind that hit can trouble you and are ready for those situations, you don't need to thf to deal with them.

    The thing that troubles my twf paladin the most in to-hit is actually my claw set: losing sneak attack to hit is occaisionally troublesome because you get an inherent hit bonus for flanking that is magnified by your sneak attack item. That means getting aggro frequently lowers your to hit by 6-7 points. However, its not such a big problem, and its self-correcting (if you start missing, you'll lose aggro really fast anyway), or you can just make sure you whack on a destruction in that situation and continue, etc.

    twf has some significant costs to it, but especially if you are splashing I think you inherently mitigate a lot of the problems with it, since your feats will be less tight (via /2 monk or /2 fighter if you do those) and your cha requirement lower (lessening the build point pressure). You might want to think about how you do your splash and whether you do rogue or monk. Monk, due to its feat bonuses, can potentially improve your character more than rogue. In particular, you could go half elf with dilettante rogue and gain more sneak attack damage than you gain from the /2 rogue itself, as well as having the monk feats.

    There are times I wish I had done this, though I'm not sure I could have pulled off my self-healing with it (due to the extra feat pressure and the significant AP pressure of healing amp/devotion vs improved dilettante). Its possible that that 3d6 sneak attack would have been a better choice for me in the longrun. Its certainly better than the 1d6+3 from /2 rogue!
    Last edited by Junts; 06-18-2011 at 06:02 PM.

  18. #798

  19. #799
    Community Member Purkilius's Avatar
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    Hey Junts,

    Just wanted to thank you for a great build

    Followed the 18/2 pal/monk build, 32 pt, on lvl 14 now using the the Sora-kell set and a lot of khopeshes but my paralyzing one is great for cc if you have another dps in your group.

    The to hit problem is not that much I just use a lot of clickies

    I am not a power-gamer as I have very limited time to play, any robe suggestions before I start Icy runs. Using now Deathblock and invulnerability Robe?

    Kind regards,

    Hilmir of Argonnessen

  20. #800
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purkilius View Post
    Hey Junts,

    Just wanted to thank you for a great build

    Followed the 18/2 pal/monk build, 32 pt, on lvl 14 now using the the Sora-kell set and a lot of khopeshes but my paralyzing one is great for cc if you have another dps in your group.

    The to hit problem is not that much I just use a lot of clickies

    I am not a power-gamer as I have very limited time to play, any robe suggestions before I start Icy runs. Using now Deathblock and invulnerability Robe?

    Kind regards,

    Hilmir of Argonnessen
    My 18/2 build isn't any kind of ac build - I don't know if yours has different stats, but if you copied mine you're not really set up well for it.

    I'd look to make a nice dragontouched in reaver's refuge. Invulnerability will work well in the interim.

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