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  1. #741
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    Seph, he isn't playing a build that has to choose gtwf or PA: he's just picking what order to get the feats.

    At 18 he will have both and use both, no doubt!

    In the interim, gtwf at 15 is better, yes.
    Yeah, I saw that. My question was going toward suggesting putting something else off until 18. I kind of like front-loading DPS stuff, and often take PA very early. Not a major issue by any means.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  2. #742
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    In the interim, gtwf at 15 is better, yes.
    You have more experience in playing pallys than I have, so I trust your judgement. But what do you mean with "better", btw? My sample calculation suggestet that if to-hit is not an issue, PA will provide more DPS than GTWF.
    Is to-hit actually an issue with PA switched on in the levels 15-17?

    sephiroth1084, have a look at post #7 of this thread:
    1: Toughness
    3: Two-Weapon Fighting
    6: Extend Spell
    9: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
    12: Improved critical: Piercing weapons
    15: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
    18: Power Attack
    Do you suggest putting Extend or toughness to level 18? I think this will hamper the overall gameplay more than taking PA as late as 15 or 18.
    Toons on Orien: Meinir // Flodur // Twiddler // Thorkar // Impetor // Juliacantor // Minor all Soko Irrlicht
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We may or may not intentionally insert in red herrings, purple mackerels, or horses of different colors. Void where prohibited. Not available in all planes of existence.

  3. #743
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    sephiroth1084, have a look at post #7 of this thread:

    Do you suggest putting Extend or toughness to level 18? I think this will hamper the overall gameplay more than taking PA as late as 15 or 18.
    Now that I've leveled a paladin to 20 without Extend, I'd go with that, but it is probably not worth doing so.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  4. #744
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    Thanks so much for this thread. For me, being new at an MMO that's been out for a while, it's threads like these that make me want to try out a particular class. Although I've always had a soft spot for pallies... why just swing a sword really well when you can be a vessel of holy vengeance (who still swings a pretty mean sword). I have to admit I read the first 3-4 pages and didn't read the whole 38 pages...

    3 quickies:
    1. The cost listed for +2 tomes in this thread is something like 200k. For someone just starting out that seems like an awful lot. I assume you won't be able to get them through cash on a first playthrough by level 9, so you'll have to buy some turbine points or take more metamagic earlier?
    2. The self healing build linked to in this thread for Aryenne talks about taking monk (past 7 and 13) late to grab ITWF earlier. I assume this is out of date advice with +2 tomes needing level 7 now? Or is there an assumed respec at 7?
    3. For evasion paladins: is UMD really that good that it and 1d6 SA is a serious contender against monks better saves and 2 feats?

  5. #745
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post


    VII. Sample 20 TWF Drow DPS


    Lawful Good Drow Paladin 20

    Str: 15 + 5 level ups (+6 item, +2 tome, +3 exceptional= 30, 32 with a +3 tome)
    Dex: 16 (+1 tome qualifies for twf)
    Con: 12 (+6 item, +2 tome for 20)
    Int: 10 (2 skill points; +2 tome helps for extra)
    Wis: 8 (+2 tome and +6 item is 16)
    Cha: 17 (+1 tome for divine might 3, +3 tome for divine might 4; 26-28 charisma equipped)

    Feats:

    1: Toughness
    3: Two-Weapon Fighting
    6: Extend Spell
    9: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
    12: Improved critical: Piercing weapons
    15: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
    18: Power Attack

    Skills: Balance and Use Magic Device, every level. 2 ranks in tumble to enable tumbling at lv 1 (come from balance). With +2 tome, get some jump.

    Enhancements:

    Knight of the Chalice 1-3 (8 ap)
    Courage of Good 1-2 (3 ap, pre-req)
    Energy of the Templar 1-2 (3 ap, pre-req)
    Divine Sacrifice 1-3 (6 ap)
    Divine Might 1-4 (10 ap)
    Extra Lay on Hands 1-3 (6 ap)
    Extra Smiting 1-4 (10 ap, pre-req)
    Exalted Smiting 1-4 (10 ap)
    Racial Toughness 1-2 (3 AP)
    Paladin Toughness 1-2 (3 ap)
    Follower of the Sovereign Host (2 ap, pre-req)
    Unyielding Sovereignty (4 ap, pre-req)
    Paladin Weapons of Good (2 ap)
    Drow weapon damage 1-2 (6 ap)
    Paladin Charisma I (if needed for even)
    2 action points of your choice
    I've found a minor mistake in one of your sample builds: The drow twf will be able to pick up DM III with a +1 tome and DM IV with a +3 one.
    Toons on Orien: Meinir // Flodur // Twiddler // Thorkar // Impetor // Juliacantor // Minor all Soko Irrlicht
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We may or may not intentionally insert in red herrings, purple mackerels, or horses of different colors. Void where prohibited. Not available in all planes of existence.

  6. #746
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    I've found a minor mistake in one of your sample builds: The drow twf will be able to pick up DM III with a +1 tome and DM IV with a +3 one.
    I still need to update the sample builds pretty radically. I never got around to that, and they're pretty old now.

  7. #747
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Now that I've leveled a paladin to 20 without Extend, I'd go with that, but it is probably not worth doing so.
    Going without extend is something that's tolerable and not that big a deal with shroud items and miserable without them, IMO.

  8. #748
    Community Member Irongutz2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    I still need to update the sample builds pretty radically. I never got around to that, and they're pretty old now.
    Wheres the new updated HORC build jear? stop slacking geesh!
    Azrreal / 28 completionist and epic completionist / Artificer 20
    Azrealla / 28 12 fighter / 4 monk / 4 pali
    Hoehoe / 28 ranger
    Twinkiee / 28 18 sorc / 2 pali
    Dingdong / 28 pali
    Razeall / 28 18 monk / 2 fighter

  9. #749
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Default I 2 would totally/greatly appreciate a 32 point Half Orc pally build! :P!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irongutz2000 View Post
    Wheres the new updated HORC build jear? stop slacking geesh!
    I 2 would totally/greatly appreciate a 32 point Half Orc pally build! :P! !

  10. #750
    Community Member FaSo's Avatar
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    bump

    a guide that all people rolling a paladin need to read, jam-packed of info

    thanks

    faso
    Alteccz- 20 WF wiz• Cryisa- 6 ranger 5 fighter 2 monk helf(helves angel)

    Ransack~khyber
    Thank you Gary - 3/4/08

  11. #751
    Community Member Irongutz2000's Avatar
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    Default bump

    Bumping this
    Azrreal / 28 completionist and epic completionist / Artificer 20
    Azrealla / 28 12 fighter / 4 monk / 4 pali
    Hoehoe / 28 ranger
    Twinkiee / 28 18 sorc / 2 pali
    Dingdong / 28 pali
    Razeall / 28 18 monk / 2 fighter

  12. #752
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    Great info here, would like to see OP updated with new Intimidate as class skill, half-elf duel intimi feat and dil feat info.

    To help, I'm in the process of building a half-elf 20 Pally Intimi-tank (3rd Gen TR after I've done a pure KOTC Pally TR to farm myself some of the gear to make this build work). The basic idea ATM is to do Defender of Siberys III but with TWF to max DPS. It wont be the best tank AC wise but with a quick swap-in for a shield and double spam on intimidate should have ample DR to stay alive on most raid(non-epic) content. For Epic content TWF will maximise DPS.

    (Disclaimer: my hopes are that buy the time this build reaches 3rd TR, Turbine would have implemented something to make tanking more viable in Epics and that with a small feat/enhancement tweak I can generate higher AC by sacrificing some of the DPS)

  13. #753
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    So I've been playing my first ever Pally and went with the lv20 twf drow build. If been a lot of fun and an adjustment from the classes I usually play. One thing. I opted to delay Extend. At level 6 there was no way I would have enough spell points to make use of extend. It wasn't unless lv7 that spell casting even became worthwhile because I was able to get the +4 wisdom item from the red fens before that I was using wands of owls wisdom just to be able to cast. It still seems that extend still isn't be worth the feat yet, whenever I choose to level to 9, because I just don't have enough mana or even spells other than Divine Favor that I would even want to be extending. I'm thinking of picking up Improved Critical at lv9 and delaying extend once again to lv12.

    Questions:

    Does extend work on Divine Might?
    Is delaying Extend until lv12 to pick up improved critical a good idea?
    At what level do you pick up Zeal at?

    (Spell progression is no longer in the compendium I remember it used to be at some point and spell progression seems to be different than what I see in the d and d wiki where i usually go when i can't find something in the compendium.)

  14. #754
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kielbasa View Post
    Questions:

    Does extend work on Divine Might? No, but on Divine Favor.
    Is delaying Extend until lv12 to pick up improved critical a good idea? If you are not that dependent on Extended Resists, sure. It does not sound like a bad idea.
    At what level do you pick up Zeal at? At 14.
    Answers in orange.
    Toons on Orien: Meinir // Flodur // Twiddler // Thorkar // Impetor // Juliacantor // Minor all Soko Irrlicht
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We may or may not intentionally insert in red herrings, purple mackerels, or horses of different colors. Void where prohibited. Not available in all planes of existence.

  15. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Answers in orange.
    Thanks. Looks like I'll be putting off extend until lv12 then. Extended resists aren't that big of a worry for me and I can live with having to rebuff divine favor a little more often.

  16. #756
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Don't be so shy, little thread. Shoo, shoo, off to page one you go.
    Toons on Orien: Meinir // Flodur // Twiddler // Thorkar // Impetor // Juliacantor // Minor all Soko Irrlicht
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We may or may not intentionally insert in red herrings, purple mackerels, or horses of different colors. Void where prohibited. Not available in all planes of existence.

  17. #757
    Community Member Whitehairguy's Avatar
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    Wanting to follow the build below.

    VIII. Sample Human THF DPS

    Lawful Good Human Paladin 20

    Str: 17 + 5 level ups (6 item, 2 tome, 3 exceptional, 1 human = 34)
    Dex: 8
    Con: 14 (6 item, 2 tome = 22)
    Int: 8 (2 sp/level)
    Wis: 8 (16 with tome and item)
    Cha: 17 (DM4 with +3 tome; 26-28 modified)

    28 point: 16 str, 13 con, use the human enhancement on con instead of str)

    Feats:

    1: Toughness
    1: Two-handed fighting
    3: Power Attack
    6: Extend Spell
    9: Improved Two-handed Fighting
    12: Improved critical: Slashing weapons
    15: Greater Two-handed Fighting
    18: skill focus: Use Magic Device or Stunning Blow (to taste)

    Skills: Use Magic device and balance; 2 ranks in tumble to permit tumbling. +2 tome, add some jump

    Knight of the Chalice 1-3 (8 ap)
    Courage of Good 1-2 (3 ap, pre-req)
    Energy of the Templar 1-2 (3 ap, pre-req)
    Divine Sacrifice 1-3 (6 ap)
    Divine Might 1-4 (10 ap)
    Extra Lay on Hands 1-3 (6 ap)
    Extra Smiting 1-4 (10 ap, pre-req)
    Exalted Smiting 1-4 (10 ap)
    Racial Toughness 1-2 (3 AP)
    Paladin Toughness 1-2 (3 ap)
    Follower of the Sovereign Host (2 ap, pre-req)
    Unyielding Sovereignty (4 ap, pre-req)
    Human adaptability: Strength
    Human improved recovery 1-2
    Paladin Weapons of Good
    Paladin Charisma 1 (if needed for evenness)

    Like the drow version, max dps enhancements are expensive.

    I have reset all my enhancements but am having a problem. Some of the stuff isn't available to me and I can't quite figure out how to get there. I can see that some of them require me to have spend X amount of action points before they're available to me, but where do I spend them? I'm sure it's something really simple I'm missing and I do feel like I fool for even having to post this, but I don't want to mess my guy all up completely. Any help will be appreciated.

    Below is what I did go ahead and enhance based on the list above
    Follower of the Soveriegn Host
    Human Improved Recovery 1
    Extra Lay On Hands 1
    Paladin Extra Smite Evil 1
    Paladin Charisma 1

    I'm about 9500 from lvl 11 and have 32 AP available.

  18. #758
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitehairguy View Post
    I have reset all my enhancements but am having a problem. Some of the stuff isn't available to me and I can't quite figure out how to get there. I can see that some of them require me to have spend X amount of action points before they're available to me, but where do I spend them? I'm sure it's something really simple I'm missing and I do feel like I fool for even having to post this, but I don't want to mess my guy all up completely. Any help will be appreciated.

    Below is what I did go ahead and enhance based on the list above
    Follower of the Soveriegn Host
    Human Improved Recovery 1
    Extra Lay On Hands 1
    Paladin Extra Smite Evil 1
    Paladin Charisma 1

    I'm about 9500 from lvl 11 and have 32 AP available.
    Did you use your toughness enhancements? Extras Smite should also available.

    Here's an enhancement planner which could help you a bit: http://ddo.motd.ru/planner
    Drag unneeded Enhancements to the left, and wanted to the right. Most of the time, it takes Prereqs automatically, so just drag KotCIII and DSIII, to shorten some drags, for example.
    Toons on Orien: Meinir // Flodur // Twiddler // Thorkar // Impetor // Juliacantor // Minor all Soko Irrlicht
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We may or may not intentionally insert in red herrings, purple mackerels, or horses of different colors. Void where prohibited. Not available in all planes of existence.

  19. #759
    Community Member Whitehairguy's Avatar
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    To be honest, I couldn't find anything to do with toughness
    I'm a failure at this. TY for the link though. I'll def check it out.

  20. #760
    Community Member Whitehairguy's Avatar
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    I did just check and paladin toughness is under the unavailable feats for me. Any reason why?

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