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  1. #1
    Community Member gwlech's Avatar
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    Default Wizard/Rogue Build

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
    (2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard) 
    Hit Points: 186
    Spell Points: 1382 
    BAB: 10\10\15\20
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Stats          Modified Stats
    Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    14
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         16                    16
    Intelligence         18                    23
    Wisdom                6                     6
    Charisma              6                     6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                     3
    Bluff                -2                    -2
    Concentration         5                    26
    Diplomacy            -2                    -2
    Disable Device        8                    29
    Haggle                2                     2
    Heal                 -2                    -2
    Hide                 -1                    -1
    Intimidate           -2                    -2
    Jump                  6                     6
    Listen               -2                    -2
    Move Silently        -1                    -1
    Open Lock             3                     4
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                8                    10
    Search                8                    29
    Spot                  2                     9
    Swim                  6                     6
    Tumble                3                     3
    Use Magic Device      2                    21
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Repair (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Swim (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 3 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 4 (Wizard)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 5 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 6 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 8 (Wizard)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+7)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
    
    
    Level 10 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Wizard)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
    
    
    Level 16 (Wizard)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
    
    
    Level 18 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
    
    
    Level 19 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Wizard)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Note: this is a 28 point build and no tomes are needed. 32 pointer starts with 18 con

    This is a build that is being posted for the benefit of a guildmate of mine. It does not deal with enhancements, but provides a step-by-step guide to spending skill points and feats. Alignment can really be whatever, but True Neutral is optimal imo. Comments are still welcome.
    Last edited by Tolero; 03-10-2011 at 10:08 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member gwlech's Avatar
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    Basic Playstyle:

    At low lvl master's touch and bulls strength are you friends. Save Spell Points for buffing/healing yourself. Find a good 2 hander (club, greatsword, greataxe) and just melee **** to death. Be on the lookout for divine power and divine favor clickies to augment yourself with.

    At lvl 8, you get firewall, stoneskin and PK...end of story. At 9 you get a really nice boost to your reflex saves and evasion. From then on everything becomes gravy.

    At level 13, you can cast quickened reconstruct on yourself, which will be a lifesaver any day.

    When using firewall and spells beyond especially, focus on maximizing your spell point efficiency, you don't really need alot of spell points to even solo alot of stuff if you use them carefully (put your meta-magics to work, even if they seem to cost alot) i.e. When used correctly, one firewall or cloudkill spell can go a long way and save you alot more casting. Practice safely kiting huge numbers of mobs (dungeon alert orange or red even)

    Until you can devote dedicated item slots, Make sure that you get a hold of the best potency/elemental/repair damage clickies or items you can. Get a spell crit item. wear the highest SP item you can get your hands on. Get a spell pen item for your resistible spells. Grab yourself the best + Tower shield you can get ahold of for turtling up for the occasional firewall tanking or those far and few between "oh ****" moments.

    For enhancements, Focus on increasing the element of choice (most of the game fire and force). Use toughness enhancements! healers friend 1 is nice, but not needed as you can self heal really well (up to you really) Get the 2 ranks of WF con. later on, spell penetration enhancements will be a good idea to have.

    Try to get a hold of the best +Search/Disable items you can for swapping out at traps. Heroism and later on, Greater Heroism are your friends. (note, a UMD item, esp after lvl 9, will help you out alot)

    Eventually, without really any difficult twinking, you can get your UMD close to 40, which is enough to UMD anything meaningful. Your trap skills can both be self buffed to over 55, which will do most content in the game.

    Strength starts at 14! Now for the naysayers who are locked into a "no str for a caster" mentality, all i can say is that for lower levels, being able to melee stuff is priceless. At any level, being enfeebled, burdened or tripped really blows. Like I said before, master's touch gives martial weapon proficency...hell, even at higher levels you reliably pull off decent melee with a simple divine power clicky charge.

    Con...well you can never get enough of it right?

    Int...again priceless stat for this build.

    Insightful Reflexes at lvl 9 takes care of reflex saves, so no dex is needed...AC is moot



    This build should be able to solo really well at any level, as well as stuff that many other builds/players wouldn't even think of trying. In addition, it will make a really great asset to any group.

    EDIT: when choosing free spells on level up, make sure to select the ones that are not buyable from vendors. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=188870
    Buy the rest from vendors and inscribe them...it will fill your spellbook and save you the headache of having to hunt scrolls later on.
    Last edited by gwlech; 12-31-2009 at 09:45 PM.

  3. #3

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    Just a quick note to say thanks for this. The info may be simple and known by other players, but the build and especially the playing guide helped me out a lot. The character based on this build is my highest level toon with the most favor and still climbing. I've soloed a ton of stuff without too much difficulty and now I'm going to start grouping and I think he will fit in just fine. Builds are helpful, but post that give advice on playing a class are invaluable for giving newer players a good start and the confidence to try new classes. Good job.

  4. #4
    Community Member Kaervas's Avatar
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    I'd like to see what other people have chosen for their enhancements for Wiz18/Rogue2

    Here is my current setup:
    • Primary casting enhancements
      01 AP - Warforged Inscribed Armor I
      10 AP - Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV
      06 AP - Wizard Lineage of Elements III
      06 AP - Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements III
      12 AP - Wizard Improved Spell Penetration III (costly but I need it due to the rogue levels)
      10 AP - Wizard Force Manipulation IV (primarily for Reconstruct from 225 to 285 per cast)
      06 AP - Wizard Improved Empowering II: -4 SP off Empower (rank III is 6 AP for another -2 SP)
      06 AP - Wizard Improved Maximizing II: -6 SP off Maximize (rank III is 6 AP for another -3 SP)
      12 AP - Wizard Intelligence III (at 34 Int with a +2 tome and 0 Exceptional, Int III will switch as I gain Ex/Tome/Litany Int)
    • Other stuff
      02 AP - Warforged Healer's Friend I
      06 AP - Warforged Constitution II
      01 AP - Racial Toughness I
      01 AP - Rogue Skill Boost I
      01 AP - Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    • TOTAL: 80 AP


    If I can pull a Spell Penetration VIII drop (VoD bracers, ideally) or roll Greater Spell Penetration VIII on my Sovereign rune, I think I would drop rank III of Spell Penetration and shift those 6 AP into Maximize III for another 3 SP saving.

    I'm also thinking of switching out the +40% Force/Repair line, Reconstruct loses 60HP, from 285HP down to 225HP per cast.
    To compensate for the roughly 20% weaker Reconstructs (taking into account Sup Pot VI) I will just scroll one every now and then, or wand whip a little while running between fights.
    I recently obtained a Docent of Defiance so my HP loss in general should be quite greatly reduced.
    This saves me 10 AP.
    Those 10 AP will purchase Improved Heightening II, granting me a saving of 2 SP per heightened spell level.
    This saves me SP on the following spells:
    04 SP per Finger of Death
    06 SP per Flesh to Stone
    06 SP per Disintegrate
    08 SP per Cone of Cold
    04 SP per Delayed Blast Fireball
    14 SP per Web
    04 SP per Otto's Sphere of Dancing
    02 SP per bugged Heighten-able Polar Ray if I forget to toggle it off
    12 SP per Halt Undead


    All this will probably change in a while, once I manage to pull a Torc and finish a Concordant Opposition item.
    Then I won't be so stingy trying to save tiny amounts of SP per cast.

    The problem is... there's not much else to take once I drop the various Improved Metamagic lines, except picking up Force and Force Crit/Crit Multiplier.
    Acid/Electricity is so terrible and has practically no choice of spells.


    Thoughts?

  5. #5
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    Question

    Hi gwlech,

    I'm very interested in your build, but I have a few questions.

    1. What items do you plan on using that you need UMD? You mentioned a Divine Power item to go melee.

    2. What about stealth? Can you do the "Shadow Mage" thing like Ghoste with this build? Do you just need a few items to boost the Hide/Move Silently skills?

    Thanks.

    Regards,
    CorIgnis

  6. #6
    Community Member futencake's Avatar
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    Nice build, I think this is probably what I will do for my next character. I would like to second Corignis's question about UMD.

    I am trying to decide on picking UMD or Open Lock. I understand that Knock will work for most things, but investing all those UMD points into Open Lock would make this build fully functional as a Rogue.
    Last edited by futencake; 01-05-2010 at 07:01 PM.

  7. #7
    Community Member Kaervas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corignis View Post
    Hi gwlech,

    I'm very interested in your build, but I have a few questions.

    1. What items do you plan on using that you need UMD? You mentioned a Divine Power item to go melee.

    2. What about stealth? Can you do the "Shadow Mage" thing like Ghoste with this build? Do you just need a few items to boost the Hide/Move Silently skills?

    Thanks.

    Regards,
    CorIgnis
    UMD is primarily for cleric scrolls (raise dead, heal, certain buffs).
    You can get Divine Power scrolls, but also clicky items. I personally prefer clickies for DP since the entire point of DP is to be toting a weapon in hand, so rather than switching to scroll then weapon, I switch to the weapon and clicky at the same time, trigger the clicky and wade in.
    There are a whole slew other useful cleric spells to UMD.

    I did not have enough points to raise hide and move silently, when I needed to keep trapsmith skills maxed out each level. Remember that even though you have 'unlocked' the ability to earn full ranks in those rogue skills, each wizard level where you wish to invest 1 point in them is really costing you 2 skill points (each gets you 0.5 rank).
    However, with +15 items and the other skill raising buffs/items I can still sneak very effectively. I was able to use it to great effect even in Amrath. Most of the time I can actually get away with using only +15 to move silently, and casting Invisibility. As long as I do not dawdle in the same spot too long, monsters will do a little 'searching sweep' thing and then go back to their spawn spots. It gets harder when Invisibility cannot be relied on, but I think it's not too shabby considering I invested a grand total of 4 points each in hide and move silently.

    Quote Originally Posted by futencake View Post
    Nice build, I think this is probably what I will do for my next character. I would like to second Corignis's question about UMD.

    I am trying to decide on picking UMD or Open Lock. I understand that Knock will work for most things, but investing all those UMD points into Open Lock would make this build fully functional as a Rogue.
    Knock = d20 + caster level + INT mod (or cha mod for sorcs)
    Even if you have half-filled ranks in Open Lock (my wiz/rogue has around 14 or 15 ranks only, out of possible 23), it still ends up much much higher with actual lock picking due to the +15 item, greater heroism, luck item, +7 from +5 thieves tools, possible dex mod (nowhere near what you can reach with int mod but the earlier stuff compensates). Add to that the fact that it doesn't consume precious SP either

    You should be able to fill up UMD, Search, Disable every level, and once you take the 2nd rogue level (and as your intelligence bonus increases and you get more skills/lvl) you can bump Open Lock up decently as well.

    UMD is definitely worth it to be able to use cleric scrolls (eg. raising the dead, or throwing the odd heal on fleshies when the healer is not available for any reason so you can be ultra-versatile all rounded support) and to a lesser extent race required items.

    Edit:
    Regarding being a fully functional rogue, one thing will still suck compared to a pure rogue, and that is the reflex save and Evasion vs Improved Evasion. You'll still be able to do 95% of the traps in the game without breaking a sweat, but a bunch have the trap boxes in places where you may not be able to survive when a rogue with the correct enhancements can have a picnic within the field of spinning blades and still not be in significant risk if they roll a single 1.
    Last edited by Kaervas; 01-06-2010 at 08:41 AM.

  8. #8
    Community Member gwlech's Avatar
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    Later on, I have found that this build does great if you drop the force enhancements about when you get reconstruct and go for improved maximize/empower ones. A Reconstruct at level 15 does 225 points of healing, which I have found to be plenty. (right after you can easily get your hands on a 50% pot 6 item).

    At cap, using AH and standard, easy to get non-raid gear, you should have at least 320-340hp and at least 1.7k spell points. Coupled with improved meta enhancements, you can easily solo quests like the mindsunder chain, Necorpolis IV, Gianthold, and never come close to running out. (these are all among some of the greatest places to do at cap, with this type of build for some really easy fast plat when you find yourself running alone.

    Add in some raid loot, (an archmagi item at the least) and you can push those stats quite a bit higher.

  9. #9
    Community Member gwlech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertVesco View Post
    Just a quick note to say thanks for this. The info may be simple and known by other players, but the build and especially the playing guide helped me out a lot. The character based on this build is my highest level toon with the most favor and still climbing. I've soloed a ton of stuff without too much difficulty and now I'm going to start grouping and I think he will fit in just fine. Builds are helpful, but post that give advice on playing a class are invaluable for giving newer players a good start and the confidence to try new classes. Good job.
    Your welcome! Many builds I see require x tome + y item * z raidloot to be complete. I feel that this confuses new players wanting to get a head start on a good build. I would never claim that this build is "the best" but I feel that it's simplicity and distribution of stats make it very easy to play and follow at ALL levels, even endgame.

  10. #10
    Community Member WolfSpirit's Avatar
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    Standard WizRogue.
    Great fun to play and very effective for all sorts of situations.
    Mine is a bit different.
    Forget about str, what do you need that for anyway?
    With a +6 item you carry what you need just fine.
    Really, the few times you become overloaded, just destroy the small value armor you picked up and move on or get to the vendor and sell it.
    I went with
    Max Int,
    18 CON
    and
    12 (14?) rest into Cha for UMD and Diplo.
    MUCH better use of those points for MY playstyle.
    28 Pt?
    I just Max both Int and put the rest into CON, VERY effective to have a HIGH hp WF Wizard, for SURE!

    ~
    If we shrank our solar system to the size of a Quarter, and lay it at your feet, the Milky Way galaxy would still be larger than North America. ~NASA Perspective anyone?

  11. #11
    Community Member gwlech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaervas View Post
    I'd like to see what other people have chosen for their enhancements for Wiz18/Rogue2

    Here is my current setup:
    • Primary casting enhancements
      01 AP - Warforged Inscribed Armor I
      10 AP - Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV
      06 AP - Wizard Lineage of Elements III
      06 AP - Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements III
      12 AP - Wizard Improved Spell Penetration III (costly but I need it due to the rogue levels)
      10 AP - Wizard Force Manipulation IV (primarily for Reconstruct from 225 to 285 per cast)
      06 AP - Wizard Improved Empowering II: -4 SP off Empower (rank III is 6 AP for another -2 SP)
      06 AP - Wizard Improved Maximizing II: -6 SP off Maximize (rank III is 6 AP for another -3 SP)
      12 AP - Wizard Intelligence III (at 34 Int with a +2 tome and 0 Exceptional, Int III will switch as I gain Ex/Tome/Litany Int)
    • Other stuff
      02 AP - Warforged Healer's Friend I
      06 AP - Warforged Constitution II
      01 AP - Racial Toughness I
      01 AP - Rogue Skill Boost I
      01 AP - Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    • TOTAL: 80 AP


    If I can pull a Spell Penetration VIII drop (VoD bracers, ideally) or roll Greater Spell Penetration VIII on my Sovereign rune, I think I would drop rank III of Spell Penetration and shift those 6 AP into Maximize III for another 3 SP saving.

    I'm also thinking of switching out the +40% Force/Repair line, Reconstruct loses 60HP, from 285HP down to 225HP per cast.
    To compensate for the roughly 20% weaker Reconstructs (taking into account Sup Pot VI) I will just scroll one every now and then, or wand whip a little while running between fights.
    I recently obtained a Docent of Defiance so my HP loss in general should be quite greatly reduced.
    This saves me 10 AP.
    Those 10 AP will purchase Improved Heightening II, granting me a saving of 2 SP per heightened spell level.
    This saves me SP on the following spells:
    04 SP per Finger of Death
    06 SP per Flesh to Stone
    06 SP per Disintegrate
    08 SP per Cone of Cold
    04 SP per Delayed Blast Fireball
    14 SP per Web
    04 SP per Otto's Sphere of Dancing
    02 SP per bugged Heighten-able Polar Ray if I forget to toggle it off
    12 SP per Halt Undead


    All this will probably change in a while, once I manage to pull a Torc and finish a Concordant Opposition item.
    Then I won't be so stingy trying to save tiny amounts of SP per cast.

    The problem is... there's not much else to take once I drop the various Improved Metamagic lines, except picking up Force and Force Crit/Crit Multiplier.
    Acid/Electricity is so terrible and has practically no choice of spells.


    Thoughts?
    Absolutely! I have found that the reconstruct spell heals quite well without needing any of the force line. In fact, after you reconstruct, it would be more than reasonable to drop the force line in order to pick up improved metas.

    If I were to roll another one of these, I would probably never take any of the force line, and just rely 100% on scrolls/wands/pots until about mid-game. Of course, this build assumes that the person rolling it is probably not very wealthy in plat, and would prefer to play cheaper by using SP for healing early on.

    Of course, by the time someone can get to this point, they will probably figure out what is best to take, as there are many ways to set up enhancements, but for practically anything, I have found Fire/Ice to be very reliable for any mob that isn't flat out "immune" to it. What cannot be burned or frozen can be taken down with melee, disintigrate, pk or finger, or even skipped.

  12. #12
    Community Member gwlech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfSpirit View Post
    Standard WizRogue.
    Great fun to play and very effective for all sorts of situations.
    Mine is a bit different.
    Forget about str, what do you need that for anyway?
    With a +6 item you carry what you need just fine.
    Really, the few times you become overloaded, just destroy the small value armor you picked up and move on or get to the vendor and sell it.
    I went with
    Max Int,
    18 CON
    and
    12 (14?) rest into Cha for UMD and Diplo.
    MUCH better use of those points for MY playstyle.
    28 Pt?
    I just Max both Int and put the rest into CON, VERY effective to have a HIGH hp WF Wizard, for SURE!
    This build is designed for its simplicity and ease of play at all levels. Many new players try out low str wf wiz/rogue builds and end up frustrated, because they use all of their spell points nuking and ccing and when they try to melee it (with a staff usually) they struggle.

    And for this build, as with any arcane, I find Diplo to be an absolute horrible skill for at least my playstyle. On any of my arcanes, I never use diplomacy, bluff or anything of that sort even at cap, with no negative repercussions.
    Last edited by gwlech; 01-06-2010 at 09:31 AM.

  13. #13
    Community Member WolfSpirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwlech View Post
    And for this build, as with any arcane, I find Diplo to be an absolute horrible skill for at least my playstyle. On any of my arcanes, I never use diplomacy, bluff or anything of that sort even at cap, with no negative repercussions.
    -
    You do know diplomacy takes Aggro OFF of you and on to others yes?
    AND it has an Area of Effect too?
    Granted, with GREAT high HPs and either quicken or a great Concentration and self healing, you don't use it As often at high levels, it still remains very useful when standing in your own firewall and otherwise getting the attention of EVERYTHING in the room!
    -
    The only reason I wouldn't take it is if I didn't have/needed the skill points for other needs.
    -
    When you say you "found" it to be horrible, how extensive did you do the testing over the last 3-4 years?
    -
    Wait, that sounded hostile. Please don't take it as such. What I'm looking for is Why or what, in your experience, causes you to feel that Diplo is a useless skill?
    Its hard to judge "Repercussions at cap" on something like this unless your counting your deaths after getting aggro from everything.
    THEN
    Counting the deaths on a replicate or simular character doing the same but using the diplo skill to avoid Monster aggro/damage.
    Last edited by WolfSpirit; 01-06-2010 at 10:09 AM.

    ~
    If we shrank our solar system to the size of a Quarter, and lay it at your feet, the Milky Way galaxy would still be larger than North America. ~NASA Perspective anyone?

  14. #14
    Community Member gwlech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfSpirit View Post
    -
    You do know diplomacy takes Aggro OFF of you and on to others yes?
    AND it has an Area of Effect too?
    Granted, with GREAT high HPs and either quicken or a great Concentration you don't use it As often at high levels, it still remains very useful when standing in your own firewall and otherwise getting the attention of EVERYTHING in the room!
    -
    The only reason I wouldn't take it is if I didn't have/needed the skill points for other needs.
    -
    When you say you "found" it to be horrible, how extensive did you do the testing over the last 3-4 years?
    -
    Wait, that sounded hostile. Please don't take it as such. What I'm looking for is Why or what, in your experience, causes you to feel that Diplo is a useless skill?
    Its hard to judge "Repercussions at cap" on something like this unless your counting your deaths after getting aggro from everything.
    THEN
    Counting the deaths on a replicate or simular character doing the same but using the diplo skill to avoid Monster aggro/damage.
    It's really all a matter of playstyle i believe. For situations where there is not an intimitank, I have found that I never need to use diplomacy, as life is just not threatened.

    Firewall tanking I love being able to drop a wall of fire and shield block with a good tower shield, when I have to, but running and jumping in a very small circle (smaller than a wall of fire width) is enough to almost completely keep from getting hit, doesn't kite the mobs away from the melee, and most anything that has aggroed me, must be taking damage, and will be dead very soon.

    Standing still and having to worry about a partially failed or poorly-timed diplo, risks getting tripped, knocked down or stunned. One way is not better than the other, however I find it to work better overall. Getting tripped, knocked down or stunned, can lead to helplessness, followed by death.

    Granted, not every situation is a nuking moment, as a wiz/rogue, you will still have tons of other tools at your disposal (i.e. debuffing, ccing)
    Last edited by gwlech; 01-06-2010 at 10:24 AM.

  15. #15
    Community Member Kaervas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfSpirit View Post
    The only reason I wouldn't take it is if I didn't have/needed the skill points for other needs.
    If you want to max out your rogue skills, you will not have points for diplomacy.
    Starting with 18 Int and eating a +1 tome at 3 and +2 tome at 7, your skill points will still be very tight due to the cross class cost.

    I do not have any skills in my skillset that I can sacrifice for Diplomacy, without compromising the entire point of the character (fully capable trapsmith arcanist).

    I've also never needed to dump aggro on anything I've encountered.
    The melee can surround it so it can't move, someone can intimidate it, I'll crowd control it, it'll die soon anyways, or it's something that the group is fine with me kiting through AOE.
    Plus most of the time I'm not directly nuking things, but applying crowd control and instant kills. Except when I'm solo and in that case aggro doesn't even matter.


    I would consider Diplo on a pure wizard, but there's no room for it on this rogue splash.

  16. #16
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Don't listen to those who say Str is wasted on a WF wizard. I'd put more points into Str than Con, actually.

    At the current end game, I also prefer Intimidation over Diplomacy. It can be hard to hold aggro if you are relying on Wall of Fire. Believe me, a WF wizard can handle plenty of aggro - it's getting it that can be difficult.

    I'd also recommend dropping one level of wizard for a level of fighter.
    "I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities" - Vaarsuvius, OoTS #674

  17. #17
    Community Member RhapsodieInBlue's Avatar
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    In pen and paper I would often mix rogues and spellcasters due to the fact that spells that require ranged touch attacks could be weapon focused as well as could sneak attack. In an upper level campaign when you're a wizard 6, rogue 4, elemental savant (earth) 10, could burrow, quickened scorching ray(acid), and attack from underneath all in a single round as long as the mob didn't have blindsense.

    In DDO I don't think there's quite that synergy, but I am all for sneaky wizards!

    Have fun with your builds guys, I had a blast reading them.

  18. #18
    Community Member futencake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhapsodieInBlue View Post
    In pen and paper I would often mix rogues and spellcasters due to the fact that spells that require ranged touch attacks could be weapon focused as well as could sneak attack. In an upper level campaign when you're a wizard 6, rogue 4, elemental savant (earth) 10, could burrow, quickened scorching ray(acid), and attack from underneath all in a single round as long as the mob didn't have blindsense.

    In DDO I don't think there's quite that synergy, but I am all for sneaky wizards!

    Have fun with your builds guys, I had a blast reading them.
    I believe the aberration book had a feat that allowed hide/move silent to effect things like blindsense and tremorsense. The pixie in our messed up monster players game had it, I do believe that character could hide from gods. (He was an intentional exercise in how munchkin a character can get, he was only allowed as a playable character for the guy who is so unlucky he had lost 4 characters in 3 sessions).

    It must be nice for the DDO devs to have so much stuff to be able to implement that they could never possibly run out of material.

    Thanks for this build by the way. I think this is definitely what I will be doing for my next character.

  19. #19
    Community Member WolfSpirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phidius View Post
    Don't listen to those who say Str is wasted on a WF wizard. I'd put more points into Str than Con, actually.

    At the current end game, I also prefer Intimidation over Diplomacy. It can be hard to hold aggro if you are relying on Wall of Fire. Believe me, a WF wizard can handle plenty of aggro - it's getting it that can be difficult.

    I'd also recommend dropping one level of wizard for a level of fighter.
    -
    Don't even know WHAT to say about this advice...
    Grain of salt perhaps?
    We are offering builds for new people, not advanced concepts and builds for people with extensive experience/plat/equipment...

    ~
    If we shrank our solar system to the size of a Quarter, and lay it at your feet, the Milky Way galaxy would still be larger than North America. ~NASA Perspective anyone?

  20. #20
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    Hi Kaervas,

    Ok. Thanks for the info about UMD, Open Lock, and sneaking around. How difficult is it to find the +15 Hide/Move Silently Items?

    CorIgnis

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