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  1. #1
    Community Member Darth_Ghad's Avatar
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    Default Reflex Throws & the Immobilized Mob



    Stunned, hypnotized, held, tripped, commanded, fascinated, and other 'immobilizing' effects are really making me wonder. If the mob is not able to move then why are they getting reflex saving throws? Physical attacks bring crit hits automatically to immobile mobs but try to hit one with Niac's Cold Ray and they get a save? There are far too many mobs in this game getting away with not playing by the rules. They should have to play by the same rules as we have to abide by. No cooldown timers on their trips and spells? What is going on here?


    Other Things That Just Aren't Right
    I am quite sure every mob in this game has spent their every skill point to max out his jump and balance skill (seems they all have a 30 Int). I am not even going to go in to the spiderman-like wall scaling ability or the leaps to the top of the doorways they all are capable of pulling off. Or bring up the way 'mindless or unintelligent' mobs seem to know exactly where you are and where you are going. As far as loot goes you would think the occasional mini-boss or boss would have a platinum or two in his pocket or maybe a weapon or two of substantial quality (i.e. a weapon with an elemental effect). With the prices on the Auction House so outlandish, the lack of Feather Falling and Underwater Action items on the new server, and the way mobs always seem to get out of the tiny little wedge directly in your vision before you can get a spell cast at them (mob is still on your screen but you get the 'you must be facing' message) you'd think we could get a little bit of compensation. I'd be happy just to get a bit more fair play out of the mobs. Of course this is just my opinion - what's yours?

    *aimlessly wanders off muttering under his breath about damned hippies and how heads would have been rolling LONG ago if he were in charge ...
    0xxxx[>^>^>^>>>>>>> Do NOT meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with mustard & swiss and a nice warm cup of tea.

  2. #2
    Community Member Grimgore's Avatar
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    My fave is when they are paralyzed and can still heal themselves (not fast healing or regen, but spell casting) or even better still attack you (thank you drow in the desert)!

  3. #3
    Community Member Natulyre's Avatar
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    Turn a monster to stone, Turn invisible and watch em walk around :0

  4. #4
    Community Member Darth_Ghad's Avatar
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    I get a real kick out of tripping a mob and should it not miraculously jump clear without having to make a saving throw. It goes down then slides all the way across a room, much further than it would normally run away from you, so that by the time you catch up to it your trip effect has expired then they get right to their feet. I am also still amazed by the ability of mobs to completed ignore the Law of Physics and cling to a space just high enough off the floor to avoid melee but still nowhere near any object that would grant them a foothold.
    Last edited by Darth_Ghad; 12-07-2009 at 03:44 PM.
    *aimlessly wanders off muttering under his breath about damned hippies and how heads would have been rolling LONG ago if he were in charge ...
    0xxxx[>^>^>^>>>>>>> Do NOT meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with mustard & swiss and a nice warm cup of tea.

  5. #5
    Community Member Letrii's Avatar
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    Helpless creatures still get saving throws, but they take a massive dex penalty. According to D&D rules anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

  6. #6
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    Many Times I've seen Paralyzed or Knocked Down enemies "dodge" my spells. Its a neat trick.....

  7. #7
    Community Member Roaros's Avatar
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    I would report these things as bugs.

  8. #8
    Community Member Darth_Ghad's Avatar
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    I stopped reporting them because they haven't fixed a single one. Besides, the report form is too long and redundant. It seems they are more interested in collecting system and character info than anything else. It's like that hobogoblin near the beginning inside of Tangleroot that rings the bell to alert the other hobs, if you do anything other than hypno him he rings the bell anyways. Even charmed he still runs over to ring it. Or my personal favorite is in the cave there in Tangleroot Gorge where the name trog shaman is located. The trogs can attack you anywhere in the water but even if you are in the knee deep water it tells you 'You can't perform this action underwater' which I find rather interesting because it doesn't matter if you are a halfling or a warforged the water is still too deep yet the trog has no trouble standing there and casting. Cupcake, my wife, refuses to go into that cave at all anymore and will leave her rare encounters incomplete rather than get slaughtered by the trog shaman. Then there is that miserable ogre champion in the worg cave up top that even if commanded or tripped still manages a miraculous escape moments before death just to regen and come back at full strength. I don't know, maybe if I reported every litttle thing I see from here out everytime I encounter it then maybe I will flood the report system enough to either get myself banned from the game or the errors fixed. Of course since the report is so long I doubt I will get much actual playing time in. Groups don't like being held up so someone can make a report.
    Last edited by Darth_Ghad; 12-07-2009 at 05:13 PM.
    *aimlessly wanders off muttering under his breath about damned hippies and how heads would have been rolling LONG ago if he were in charge ...
    0xxxx[>^>^>^>>>>>>> Do NOT meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with mustard & swiss and a nice warm cup of tea.

  9. #9
    Founder PurdueDave's Avatar
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    This is RAW. They get a save but as if they have a DEX score of 0.

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/com...ableConditions

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimgore View Post
    My fave is when they are paralyzed and can still heal themselves (not fast healing or regen, but spell casting) or even better still attack you (thank you drow in the desert)!
    The best is when you paralyze scorpions who proceed to move around underground but the green ball follows them so you can track their movements. They pop out of the ground and can't move, then go back under. But I do hate getting incapped by paralyzed creatures.

  11. #11
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    generally on DDO mobs that are a form of immobilized that produces automatic critical hits (stoned, held, etc) auto-fail reflex saves, but holds that do not cause auto-crits (like paralyzing weapons) dont make them fail

    many debuffs that immobilize give reflex save penalties, like the otto's dance spells, which are -10 to reflex save.

  12. #12
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    I attribute it to lag from the game servers.

    More times than I can count, I have killed a mob only to be hit by a disintegrate or some type of CC spell after they are dead laying on the ground. Paralyzed mobs should not be able to trip PC's while in that state, nor should mobs be allowed to scale walls where there are no footholds. This is not Assassins Creed.

    Unfortunately, none of this will be fixed. Too many years ingrained into the coding to be fixed. Just wait for DDO2.

  13. #13
    Community Member Cuth's Avatar
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    I like seeing in my combat log:

    You hit Mob X for 30 points of slash damage.
    Mob X has died.
    Mob X hits you for 15 points of slash damage.

    I want the feat that lets me hit from beyond the grave!

  14. #14
    Community Member Darth_Ghad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurdueDave View Post
    This is RAW. They get a save but as if they have a DEX score of 0.

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/com...ableConditions
    Yet it is amazing they will make the save for 0 damage every single time vs Niac's Cold Ray
    *aimlessly wanders off muttering under his breath about damned hippies and how heads would have been rolling LONG ago if he were in charge ...
    0xxxx[>^>^>^>>>>>>> Do NOT meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with mustard & swiss and a nice warm cup of tea.

  15. #15
    Community Member Darth_Ghad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diarden1 View Post
    I attribute it to lag from the game servers.

    More times than I can count, I have killed a mob only to be hit by a disintegrate or some type of CC spell after they are dead laying on the ground. Paralyzed mobs should not be able to trip PC's while in that state, nor should mobs be allowed to scale walls where there are no footholds. This is not Assassins Creed.

    Unfortunately, none of this will be fixed. Too many years ingrained into the coding to be fixed. Just wait for DDO2.
    Yeah, don't get me started on the lack of cool down timers for mobs, chain tripping, or endless mana.
    *aimlessly wanders off muttering under his breath about damned hippies and how heads would have been rolling LONG ago if he were in charge ...
    0xxxx[>^>^>^>>>>>>> Do NOT meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with mustard & swiss and a nice warm cup of tea.

  16. #16
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurdueDave View Post
    This is RAW. They get a save but as if they have a DEX score of 0.

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/com...ableConditions
    That's very misleading since the rules for 0 dexterity specifically state that something with 0 dexterity automatically fails reflex saves.

  17. #17
    Founder PurdueDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    That's very misleading since the rules for 0 dexterity specifically state that something with 0 dexterity automatically fails reflex saves.
    I see no mention of this under 0 ability conditions. Dex 0 is paralyzed.

    Where is that from?

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuth View Post
    I like seeing in my combat log:

    You hit Mob X for 30 points of slash damage.
    Mob X has died.
    Mob X hits you for 15 points of slash damage.

    I want the feat that lets me hit from beyond the grave!
    Oh it does work both ways. You just tend to notice it more with mobs because you slaughter them, not the other way round...

  19. #19
    Community Member leadhead's Avatar
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    I find that my ability to miss on archers/spellcasters/ ranged mobs is 100% until they move away from me and are ready to fight. LOL!

  20. #20
    Community Member Slink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth_Ghad View Post


    Stunned, hypnotized, held, tripped, commanded, fascinated, and other 'immobilizing' effects are really making me wonder. If the mob is not able to move then why are they getting reflex saving throws? Physical attacks bring crit hits automatically to immobile mobs but try to hit one with Niac's Cold Ray and they get a save?

    All of my characters get a save under these conditions.
    In fact, when under these conditions there is one thing you can also do; shieldblock.


    There are far too many mobs in this game getting away with not playing by the rules. They should have to play by the same rules as we have to abide by. No cooldown timers on their trips and spells? What is going on here?

    Sure, let's code more into the AI that has already been speculated as the main source for the majority of what is generating issues for the game engine. i.e. lag
    Personally, I think its funny now to watch the commanded/cometfalled whatever mob slide across the floor.
    It's even funnier to watch the fighters chase them around.
    Also upon occasion, I can still manage to get my character to "slide away" under these conditions.


    Other Things That Just Aren't Right
    I am quite sure every mob in this game has spent their every skill point to max out his jump and balance skill (seems they all have a 30 Int). I am not even going to go in to the spiderman-like wall scaling ability or the leaps to the top of the doorways they all are capable of pulling off. Or bring up the way 'mindless or unintelligent' mobs seem to know exactly where you are and where you are going.

    That sounds exactly like the way we play!
    I wonder if they had to wait til level 7 to get those extra skill points from their +2 int tomes!!!
    I demand an inquisition immediately!!!


    As far as loot goes you would think the occasional mini-boss or boss would have a platinum or two in his pocket or maybe a weapon or two of substantial quality (i.e. a weapon with an elemental effect).

    Only if they actually use the coolness weapon (that does 5d6+120 dmg per swing) versus your party before you can acquire it.
    Wait, that sounds like epic content!
    Meh, we'll have greensteel by then and it'll do alot more damage than that at level 20 anyways...


    With the prices on the Auction House so outlandish, the lack of Feather Falling and Underwater Action items on the new server, and the way mobs always seem to get out of the tiny little wedge directly in your vision before you can get a spell cast at them (mob is still on your screen but you get the 'you must be facing' message) you'd think we could get a little bit of compensation. I'd be happy just to get a bit more fair play out of the mobs. Of course this is just my opinion - what's yours?
    I do understand your points. Especially the "you are not facing xxxx" when on my cleric.
    But that is exactly how I play my fighter and although not always successful its hella lots better than the way I watch alot of people play. (you know, stand there and take it, the cleric will keep ya rollin'!)
    How much easier must this game get?
    Yah they scaled things up a tad on elite, about time too.
    Tell me, how many mobs are there ingame that have a healer spamming cures nonstop?
    Tell me, how many mobs are there ingame that have blanket immunities covering some of our best technique?
    Not many and the ones that do are some of the most feared mobs out there.
    Youre not considering balance as if the mobs played exactly the way we do.
    SidekickzDysmoniaEilisia PSSC

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