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  1. #21
    Founder Ghoste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    EDIT: Ok, I'll help out with the results. A few months later when the developers notice "Hey, all our quests are stupid invis-runs now", they buff 50% of all mobs above level 10 with See Invisibility, and you guys can no longer use Invisibility ever again.
    And this isn't already the case? Perhaps all the players are not currently just running past everything invisible, but that certainly doesn't mean it is not already very possible.The only difference Aspenor's suggestion amounts to is a few fewer casts of invisibility.
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  2. #22
    DDO Catalog MrCow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoste
    Sins of Attrition is actually quite easy to sneak through. The hallways are narrow, but not so narrow that if the devils are all huddled up on one side you can't sneak by on the other. Making noise where you want them to huddle up works great for herding them right where you want them. Bunch of cattle...
    Don't get me wrong, I have posted video footage of just that on Youtube, but most folks who would just use invisibility to fly through the quest are bound to get in the 5-foot auto-detect arcs of a fair amount of devils.
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  3. #23
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    I shouldn't need to answer that.

    It is obviously a bad idea to enable and encourage more and more players to run around and jump over piles of enemies on the way to their objectives.
    Curently they do that without Invisibility.

    Only a very few are smart enough to take advantage of Invisibility.
    I'd say 90% still leave Invis pots in chests.
    And everytime I cast Invis on a group to go through an explorer area, they break it at the first monster they see. Even the clerics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
    The only difference Aspenor's suggestion amounts to is a few fewer casts of invisibility.
    Quite untrue. The reality is that there is a BIG difference between remaining continuously Invisible and casting the spell twice, especially if monsters are looking directly at the door as you open it.

    For an example, look at the Iron Maw configuration where the lever spawns in the bedroom in front of the stationary Tiefling Rogue.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Curently they do that without Invisibility.
    Gah... they don't use Invisibility because it isn't so powerful yet.

    The suggestion is to make Invisibility a lot more powerful, which naturally would cause many more players to use it.

  6. #26
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Yes, invisibility is overpowered and should be nerfed; whereas, hide and move silently should be buffed as that is currently underpowered. The problem with invisibility is the listen check by the monster typical does not do any good in most instances. Its great when somebody runs around while invisible with impunity. In pnp the monster gets a listen check and when successful will hear the square the player is in and be able to likely target the square the player is in and possible hit the player with a miss chance of course. In ddo that is not what goes on especially with aggro involved.
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  7. #27
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Curently they do that without Invisibility.

    Only a very few are smart enough to take advantage of Invisibility.
    I'd say 90% still leave Invis pots in chests.
    And everytime I cast Invis on a group to go through an explorer area, they break it at the first monster they see. Even the clerics.
    It depends on the group you run with, but we all do invisiblity frequently. A great place to use it is on the clerics/fvs in VOD and the Tower raid.
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  8. #28
    Founder Ghoste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Yes, invisibility is overpowered and should be nerfed; whereas, hide and move silently should be buffed as that is currently underpowered. The problem with invisibility is the listen check by the monster typical does not do any good in most instances. Its great when somebody runs around while invisible with impunity. In pnp the monster gets a listen check and when successful will hear the square the player is in and be able to likely target the square the player is in and possible hit the player with a miss chance of course. In ddo that is not what goes on especially with aggro involved.
    In PnP monsters only know where the player is on the turn they fail their ms check. In DDO, once they know, they always know (presently, the ability to lose agro that we once had is no longer working). Also, monsters in PnP do not automatically know that a player is in the square where they stopped after failing a ms check. It depends on the difference between the listen and failed ms checks, as well as the intelligence of the monster whether or not it even realizes what it is hearing. Often they will just go to investigate, just like in DDO.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    A great place to use it is on the clerics/fvs in VOD and the Tower raid.
    It's pretty common to cast Invisibility on healers there... but it doesn't make a big difference. It's not as if the Orthons are highly dangerous in any event.

  10. #30
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    Gah... they don't use Invisibility because it isn't so powerful yet.

    The suggestion is to make Invisibility a lot more powerful, which naturally would cause many more players to use it.
    I do know what you meant.

    And I agree, if it suddenly becomes the easy loot run button, it will be used and abused.

    But it currently is more powerful than people seem to realise.

    I use it often and get great results. The devs keep changing things on us, so I may not understand exactly how it currently works, but in the recent past a char with a decent MS skill can run through the Vale or Shavrouth(sp) while Invisible and get little agro.

    With similar results in many quests as well.

    And Invisible Clerics are much safer than visible ones.

    Even a loud char gets some benefit from being invisible.

    And the devs said it helps with dungeon alert. (but all I can confirm is it helps get less agro)

    Even if they agro on you, most monsters slow down to use their sonar to attack you and keep up....therefor, they fall behind very quick.

    So....IMO running through a dungeon jumping over monsters to get to the end currently works better Invisible, than visible......and currently few take advantage of it. (and many think it is useless0

    Thus my comment ealier.

    What I would like to see is Invisibility and stealth make sense.
    And dungeon design limit abuse.

    See Invisibility should be cast (not automatically always on) when monsters suspect invisible adventurers. (and only by thise monster capable of casting it)(and it should be dispelable)

    Some doors and levers can be alarmed.

    Many, many things can be designed into the game to limit its abuse and make it more realistic (and keeping with D&D rules)

    But anyway, it's useful as is, by those who know how.

    The change I really want is to make hiding from a monster who has seen you possible in this game.

    None of this sonar, instant knowing location **** we have now.

    If they do not touch me or "see" me or get attacked by me they should never know where I am.

    And I should be able to run around a corner and hide again as soon as I'm out of sight.

    Have them cast a see Invis when they know I'm invisible....fine.
    Have them get a bonus to Spot....fine.
    Have them search in a search patern.....ok.

    But no instant ESP knowledge! That is stupid and cheap.

    Have them cast Glitterdust! Fine!

    Kobold Shaman filling a whole room with glitterdust is ok! That makes sense.
    Webbing a whole room.

    But opening doors should not pop you out of Invisibility and stealth. Give you minuses to ability is ok. Make noise is ok.

    I'm all for balance and controling abuse.

    But we should have options to beating everything up with a Khopesh. That's what D&D is about. Solving problems creatively.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  11. #31
    Community Member Kistilan's Avatar
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    Feh....

    I say let invisibility be fixed.

    There are plenty of opportunities for r-tards to self-identify their inability to use the spell to ninja loot run. And for the truly desireable chests, True Seeing is the ward of the guardian (or should be).

    But for the Prince of Persia loot run of standard items, fix invisibility.

    PS: It would not be so earth-shattering to grant mobs that protect chests (Bloodstone, Greaves, etc) to have the named receive True Seeing. Then the fellows can be alerted and there is at least a fight for the chest.

  12. #32
    Tasty Ham Smuggler Kromize's Avatar
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    They also need to fix the issue that if you are currently targeted by a monster, when you run behind something and go invisible or stealth, they still know exactly where you are no matter what. No matter how far you run, they know exactly where you are. It needs to be a line of sight thing. Once you leave line of sight, they can't target you, but they will go check the last spot they saw you, and then some, depending on how much aggro you had.

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