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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Feat: Improved Weapon Finesse

    Plain and simple, add the Improved Weapon Finesse feat. For those who don't know what that is, its a feat that allows one finessed weapon that is focused to use its users dexterity modifier for damage if the target is not immune to critical hits. It can be taken multiple times for different weapons.

  2. #2
    Founder TreknaQudane's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that's not core dnd, maybe from one of the OGL splat books, but definitely not core nor from WoTC
    [REDACTED]

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    Community Member Jiipster's Avatar
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    No thanks. That'd take away almost all the reasons why you'd go STR-based (only reason left would be tactics feats). And would you still only get half the bonus to damage with off-hand weapons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiipster View Post
    No thanks. That'd take away almost all the reasons why you'd go STR-based (only reason left would be tactics feats). And would you still only get half the bonus to damage with off-hand weapons?
    Not necessarily since its a criple to waste feats on this, WFinesse and WFocus:Light or Rap only to get no bonus again an enemy whos immune to crits or whos anatomy you are not familiar with.

    and yea you will still only get half damage on off hand since this also doesnt have the epic feat superiortwf

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    Community Member Dylos_Moon's Avatar
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    Personally, I think giving monks the ability to use dex for their damage rolls on unarmed attacks would be overpowering, I mean a halfling monk can reach what, 40 dex easily, which would then apply to their to hit, AC, reflex save, and damage? Meanwhile strength would be used for...carrying capacity, yea that balances well.

    Whats next, adding a feat that allows wizards to use their Int mod for HP (Mind Over Body background feat in NWN2)
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    Founder TreknaQudane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dylos_Moon View Post
    Whats next, adding a feat that allows wizards to use their Int mod for HP (Mind Over Body background feat in NWN2)
    That was only for one level, not all levels.
    [REDACTED]

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    Community Member hydra_ex's Avatar
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    Cool everyone, lets just all build DEX based 18/1/1 exploiter elves or halflings with rapiers and take FE:Contruct and Undead!

    Now we have about the best damage in the game, the best ac in the game, and equal damage against non-crittable enmies as STR based characters.


    Way to OP.

    /deny.
    Last edited by hydra_ex; 11-23-2009 at 08:43 PM.
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    Community Member Dylos_Moon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreknaQudane View Post
    That was only for one level, not all levels.
    Which is what balanced it, however there is no way that Imp Weapon Finesse could only be applied at the first level
    Quote Originally Posted by hydra_ex View Post
    Cool everyone, lets just all build DEX based 18/1/1 exploiter halflings with khopeshes and take FE:Contruct and Undead!

    Now we have the best damage in the game, by far, the best ac in the game, and equal damage against non-crittable enmies as STR based characters.


    Way to OP.

    /deny.
    Khopeshes aren't Finesseable, the weapon would need to be light or a rapier, that means that rapiers and unarmed would benefit the most from the suggested feat. 2d10+Dex x2 (20 monk) and 1d8+Dex 18-20/x2 (greensteel rapier)
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    Community Member Redicular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dylos_Moon View Post
    Personally, I think giving monks the ability to use dex for their damage rolls on unarmed attacks would be overpowering, I mean a halfling monk can reach what, 40 dex easily, which would then apply to their to hit, AC, reflex save, and damage? Meanwhile strength would be used for...carrying capacity, yea that balances well.

    Whats next, adding a feat that allows wizards to use their Int mod for HP (Mind Over Body background feat in NWN2)
    wow that really exists? dnd needs to change their motto to apple's iphone one:
    "yep, there's a feat for that"

    Quote Originally Posted by hydra_ex View Post
    Cool everyone, lets just all build DEX based 18/1/1 exploiter halflings with khopeshes and take FE:Contruct and Undead!

    Now we have the best damage in the game, by far, the best ac in the game, and equal damage against non-crittable enmies as STR based characters.


    Way to OP.

    /deny.
    hey! it wouldn't work with khopeshes, those aren't finessable....

    as much as i'd love this feat to be in game, I'm afraid my desire for it comes mainly because its broken overpowered. dex is enough of a god stat as is.
    Last edited by Redicular; 11-23-2009 at 05:17 PM.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by hydra_ex View Post
    Cool everyone, lets just all build DEX based 18/1/1 exploiter halflings with khopeshes and take FE:Contruct and Undead!

    Now we have the best damage in the game, by far, the best ac in the game, and equal damage against non-crittable enmies as STR based characters.


    Way to OP.

    /deny.
    Khopeshes are not finesseable and would not gain the ability to be finessable with the OPs suggestion. If you don’t agree with the OP then argue against the actual argument rather than making stuff up.

    OP: The feat, as written, would overpower specific DDO builds. Something like this would be better saved for PrE's. (Specifically, the Elegant strike ability from the Champion of Corellon Larethian PrC)
    Last edited by QuantumFX; 11-23-2009 at 05:22 PM.
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
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    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
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  11. #11
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    Something along these lines could be acceptable, but it would need numerous limitations added, including being restricted to suboptimal weapon types and excluding the usage of other powerful combat feats.

    Here is a suggestion which incorporates that
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=170409

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    Oh sorry btw this only works for piercing weapons and agianst naturally critable enemies whos anatomy you are familiar with (via knowlegde, is that even in this game?) FE does not allow this to work againt non-naturally critable enemies although you are obviously considered as knowing their anatomy. and (im not sure) but i think you have to take it twice for two of the same weapon, ill check Edit: Alright cant find this so i guess thats not right although it would probably work as a balancing factor in this game even goin so far as to say that you need to retake it for every attack you can make with your weapons for it to apply to each additional attack
    Last edited by Shaikc; 11-23-2009 at 08:01 PM. Reason: Found Information

  13. #13
    Community Member rezo's Avatar
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    /sign, good idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    No one that throws together a bunch of numbers and calls it fact is going to give you and real accurate answer, there's too many variables and it's all biased towards there own personal outlooks on how it should be, not how it is. Numbers are too easy to manipulate.
    So sad but true.

  14. #14
    Community Member Symar-FangofLloth's Avatar
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    I found it.
    It's homebrew for sure..
    It's here if anyone cares. http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Improve...%28DnD_Feat%29
    Former Xoriat-er. Embrace the Madness.

  15. #15
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    Hmm, would this be less OP if say this feats was a triggerable skill which, when in use, incurred a penalty to hit equal to the targets and users bonus to AC from armor?

  16. #16
    Community Member hydra_ex's Avatar
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    My bad, didn't read the OP well enough. Regardless, the argument still holds, as rapiers are still one of the best DPS weapons, just below Khopesh, DA and heavy pick. With elf enhc, it's still outrageous.

    Again, I apologize, although I cannot emphasize how OP this would be. Especially for monks, as it would almost invalidate almost all other stances, as an air stance monk will deal incredible damage, and attack super fast. Fire stance might only be useful for gaining ki when low.

    I decided that instead of adding a penalty (which I don't like), instead I restrict the weapon types to not include rapiers, and lesson the benefit, such that STR toons deal more damage, only because not all of the DEX mod should translate into damage. In addition, they loose DPS over characters with Power Attack, since IWF would be exclusive.

    Perhaps like this it would be better:

    Improved Weapon Finesse: [Weapon Type]
    Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6, Weapon Focus: [Weapon Type], Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise
    You are extremely adept at working with light weapons. While you have Combat Expertise active, you can apply three-quarters (75%) of your dexterity modifier to your damage modifier instead of your strength. This can only be applied to light weapons (therefore rapiers are excluded). This effect only works on targets susceptible to critical hits.

    In addition, every class, exlcluding monk, would receive enhancements "Extra Finesse Damage" I and II, costing 2 and 4 APs respectively. If the character has the IWF feat, then they can increase their damange to 80% DEX modifier and then to 85% DEX modifier.

    The reason for excluding monks is to prevent super air stance monks. Perhaps a lesser version, working only up to 80%, would be available for monks.

    (Percentages are negotiable. Perhaps enhc increases up to 95%?)
    Last edited by hydra_ex; 11-23-2009 at 09:04 PM.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikc View Post
    Plain and simple, add the Improved Weapon Finesse feat. For those who don't know what that is, its a feat that allows one finessed weapon that is focused to use its users dexterity modifier for damage if the target is not immune to critical hits. It can be taken multiple times for different weapons.
    8 str toons suddenly became so hawt!
    If you want to know why...

  18. #18
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    Lol, there are so many ways to waste this out of OPness and still have a good new style of play, say x4 armor check pen on atk and dmg, req of certain number of points in tumble/concentraion, enhan point req, int req, x2,3,4 str pen to AC with str and con reduced by X when in use. name your choice.

  19. #19
    Community Member Symar-FangofLloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydra_ex View Post
    Perhaps like this it would be better:
    Well, why not just add in Deadly Defense instead? It's an official feat.

    No pre-reqs.
    When fighting Defensively or Using Combat Expertise, wearing no or light armor and not using a shield, and using a weapon to which Weapon Finesse applies, deal an extra 1d6 points of damage.
    Selectable as Fighter bonus feat.
    Former Xoriat-er. Embrace the Madness.

  20. #20
    Community Member hydra_ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symar-FangofLloth View Post
    Well, why not just add in Deadly Defense instead? It's an official feat.

    No pre-reqs.
    When fighting Defensively or Using Combat Expertise, wearing no or light armor and not using a shield, and using a weapon to which Weapon Finesse applies, deal an extra 1d6 points of damage.
    Selectable as Fighter bonus feat.
    Because that feat is too weak?

    IMO, the feat should be somewhere in the middle of that feat, and its straight up version.
    THELANIS - Chief Scientist of DARPA
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