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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seregon View Post
    Heres a funny qoute from 78macksons build post that shows how different his building ideas are from mine. "cleaned up the build, and added proper/optimal gear." Unlike 78mackson who simply adds gear that he doesn't have and has not used on that char to a build post, I acquired, and used every single peice of gear that I talk about.
    doesnt have? now your speculating.. I have a screenshot aswell ^^
    The only gear that I lack is the shin-tao ring...I really really doubt that getting from 1d10+39 to 1d10+41 in dmg would be sucha game breaker that I can´t possible imagine how that would look.. and not post it as desired end-game gear for that kind of build... when I sketched my build I wanted to fit in the upcoming stuff so I knew what and where to look and how it would replace/fit into my old stuff(mod8)...I always sketch down my desired gear so I dont end up rolling on things that other people might have better use of or wasting 42 tempest runes just cause I didnt think right the first time...
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by 78mackson View Post
    doesnt have? now your speculating.. I have a screenshot aswell ^^
    The only gear that I lack is the shin-tao ring...I really really doubt that getting from 1d10+39 to 1d10+41 in dmg would be sucha game breaker that I can´t possible imagine how that would look.. and not post it as desired end-game gear for that kind of build... when I sketched my build I wanted to fit in the upcoming stuff so I knew what and where to look and how it would replace/fit into my old stuff(mod8)...I always sketch down my desired gear so I dont end up rolling on things that other people might have better use of or wasting 42 tempest runes just cause I didnt think right the first time...
    Yeh, few realize that item builds are just as important as character builds. And just as building characters it requires knowledge and skill to make good ones.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleipner View Post
    So what you are saying is that you radomly built your toon, picked up some stuff and it turned out ok but nothing more and then decided to post it on the forums, No planning, No vision in what it would trun out like, No twink gear....... That my friend seems abit dumb if you ask me.
    Instead of beeing so grumpy about it thank him for acctually sorting out what you don´t have/had access to when the build was uptodate back in the days, so it might be abit more vaild theese days.
    No, that is the exact opposite of what I stated. Everything about my build was planned. If by picked up some stuff, you mean acquired every single piece of raid loot in the game, and about 10 pieces of greensteel yes I did pick up some stuff. Yes I waited to post my build in the forums until I had every single piece of gear because I felt actually using the gear with the build would allow me to have a better idea of how the synergy between the two would work.

    I don't see how you could possibly say that my build had no planning because it was extremely well planned and I explained every decision I made in the OP.

    I dont see how you could say that I had no idea what the build would turn out like, because I leveled the character and acquired all of the gear before I made the post so I knew exactly how the build would turn out because I was playing it.

    I don't see how you could say that I have no twink gear.... the build has every single peice of raid loot in the game, 4 GS weps, 6 GS items, and every rare item from every single quest.

    And your last statement "Instead of beeing so grumpy about it thank him for acctually sorting out what you don´t have/had access to when the build was uptodate back in the days, so it might be abit more vaild theese days" does not make sense, he did not sort anything out, and Torthur Hareft had every single peiece of raid loot in game when I made the post. That last statement you made is neither valid, nor sound.

    Hey Gleipwhatever one more thing, why don't you post your build and all the items you use?
    Last edited by Seregon; 10-31-2009 at 07:22 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute-Omniscience View Post
    Yeh, few realize that item builds are just as important as character builds. And just as building characters it requires knowledge and skill to make good ones.
    Thanks AO, I'm happy that you agree with me on something finally. I definetly realized how important the synergy between items is, which is why my OP has a very extensive item build that goes into great depth.
    Last edited by Seregon; 10-31-2009 at 07:22 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleipner View Post
    Epic fail. 1 to hit on a d20 = 5%. Missing 5% more hits is 5% dps. (A little less, since with bloodstone you still confirm crits on a 2, even if your normal miss on a 2).
    No where NEAR 1,6% though.
    Epic Fail on your part, we clearly were not talking about 1 to hit on d20 roll. Heres is 78macksons qoute that I was responding too "oki.. but a pure ranger is probably the class that least have to comprimise his starting stats. Since your talking about lion-belt-knuckle thinghy we haven´t seen yet, I assume that your planning on going epic; and every little bit that can get you closer to 60+ in to-hit will be 5% more to-hit.. just saying, to not max your str would be a stupid thing on a rather un-versitile ranger such as this...
    " See no d20 roll.... hes talking about gaining more to-hit so he can hit mobs that require a +60 to hit. Do you always jump on posts acting as if you right but actually end up not having a clue what your talking about? Because every post of mine you misinterpret and either take the opposite meaning than which I'm clearly conveying or like the above pull out a small qoute with an attempt to skew what I'm saying. Atleast you end up being very wrong each time..




    And that's exactly what a 18/1/1 could do, only better.




    Extremely wrong, it was stated SEVERAL times why it is not an optimal build.

    Torthr Hareft

  6. #26
    Community Member Gleipner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seregon View Post
    Atleast you end up being very wrong each time..
    So what you are saying is that all my statments was wrong in this thread.. i find you amusing..

    A 18/1/1 can still do it better: not very wrong ere am I?

    And it was STATED several times: still not wrong

    For the dice thing i´ll get back to you but i´m pretty sure it´s correct aswell, even thou it might have been out of content.

  7. #27
    Community Member Gleipner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seregon View Post
    "Instead of beeing so grumpy about it thank him for acctually sorting out what you don´t have/had access to when the build was uptodate back in the days, so it might be abit more vaild theese days"
    Well you sure made it sound like you haven´t played this for a long time, and i think he has every right to use what ever items that are avalible in DDO if he can put it to good use and improve on and OLD outodate build. or should i say mediocre.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seregon View Post
    Hey Gleipwhatever one more thing, why don't you post your build and all the items you use?
    My current build is avalible on myddo.com if your interested.

    Trottawhatever its in my sig.
    Last edited by Gleipner; 10-31-2009 at 07:39 PM.

  8. #28
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    sorry thorftur, I assumed you knew we talked about ddo, I also assumed you knew how the combat system works.. It isnt really a wild guess that this build of yours will hit everything on a natural 15 but also miss on a 2.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleipner View Post
    Well you sure made it sound like you haven´t played this for a long time, and i think he has every right to use what ever items that are avalible in DDO if he can put it to good use and improve on and OLD outodate build. or should i say mediocre.



    My current build is avalible on myddo.com if your interested.

    Trottawhatever its in my sig.
    Again you show that you clearly are unaware of what we are talkin about. No one was talking about adding items to my build, and I have not critisized anyone for adding items to my build. Your above statements, when you say mediocre, is obviously an attack on my build, but what you dont understand is no one was adding items to my build and that I was not critisizing anyone for adding any items to my build lol. I can't believe you how always think you know what your talking about and then are proved wrong. Let me spell it out clearly, I was saying that anyone can post a build with all the best items in game like 78mackson did, but its alot more effort to get every single item in game and then post your build. I was saying that having every item you post on your build makes it more valid because the build is play tested which i feel is important beacuse as we all know theory does not always work experimentally as it should... I can't believe you did not even understand what we were argueing about, as I think I have well shown.

    Myddo.com... hmm does not appear to be a website, I'd still love to see your current build.
    Last edited by Seregon; 11-01-2009 at 12:31 PM.

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=78mackson;2525955]sorry thorftur, I assumed you knew we talked about ddo, I also assumed you knew how the combat system works.. It isnt really a wild guess that this build of yours will hit everything on a natural 15 but also miss on a 2.[/QUOTE]

    I do know how the combat system works, and am very familiar with it. So familiar with it that I am shocked that you would make a statement saying my build "will hit everything on a 15 but also miss on a 2" I am shocked because that statement is so vague and so wrong I don't know why you would even post it. What mobs are you talking about, what quests, and difficulty, lol. I can think of plenty of mobs high end that I hit for on a 2. My to-hit on the OP is just fine, its +35 self buffed and +50 raid buffed, which is very solid. If i started with 18 str instead of 15, I would have a +37 self buffed to hit and +52 raid buffed to hit. That is a 4% increase from my current but not enough to make a difference. You are the only person to call into question the to-hit of this build because its pretty commonly recognized that +35 to hit self buffed and +50 to hit is good.

    Torthur Hareft

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleipner View Post
    So what you are saying is that all my statments was wrong in this thread.. i find you amusing..

    A 18/1/1 can still do it better: not very wrong ere am I?

    And it was STATED several times: still not wrong

    For the dice thing i´ll get back to you but i´m pretty sure it´s correct aswell, even thou it might have been out of content.
    No one is argueing about 18/1/1 verse my Pure Class Dwarven Strength based ranger. Its people like you who come in here and my old post and make the arguement.

    LET ME SPELL IT VERY CLEARLY FOR YOU GLEIP THIS THREAD IS ONLY ABOUT PURE CLASS DWARVEN STRENGTH BASED RANGERS.

    Every opinon in my OP is from that point of view.

    I made this thread to help out new players, and older players new to the ranger class so they could have a Pure Class version of a strengh based ranger, as I thought with capstones maybe people might be interested in a pure build as they were fairly uncommon. Heres another thing you alone don't seem to understand. I DO NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM THINK MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY, OR THE BEST, THAT IS YOU, NOT ME.That is way I made such an elaborate post explaining every single decision I made, so that any one who wanted to do it differently could, and so they could see how my decisions affected my build, which would allow them to make more educated guesses about what would happen if they X differently. This thread is to help people out, not argue about multiclass verse pure, please make your own thread for that post.

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=Seregon;2526917]
    Quote Originally Posted by 78mackson View Post
    sorry thorftur, I assumed you knew we talked about ddo, I also assumed you knew how the combat system works.. It isnt really a wild guess that this build of yours will hit everything on a natural 15 but also miss on a 2.[/QUOTE]

    I do know how the combat system works, and am very familiar with it. So familiar with it that I am shocked that you would make a statement saying my build "will hit everything on a 15 but also miss on a 2" I am shocked because that statement is so vague and so wrong I don't know why you would even post it. What mobs are you talking about, what quests, and difficulty, lol. I can think of plenty of mobs high end that I hit for on a 2. My to-hit on the OP is just fine, its +35 self buffed and +50 raid buffed, which is very solid. If i started with 18 str instead of 15, I would have a +37 self buffed to hit and +52 raid buffed to hit. That is a 4% increase from my current but not enough to make a difference. You are the only person to call into question the to-hit of this build because its pretty commonly recognized that +35 to hit self buffed and +50 to hit is good.

    Torthur Hareft
    [QUOTE=78mackson;2526988]
    Quote Originally Posted by Seregon View Post

    I didnt know they had internet in the mountains of midgard...

    I should have know after readin this: "Level 16, and the gear that came with it, represented a paradigm shift in DDO for me, It was the first time my pure class build was finally as powerful, if not more powerful than almost every multiclassed melee build(in terms of dps, skills umd included, hp, AC, and saves)."

    No, if you only would have looked at the local shroud lfm´s u would have known that you lived in denial.
    That is your response to my answer regarding the to-hit of the build? I qouted my answer and your response above so everyone could see how I like to use math, while you use... vague insults. I prove your to-hit insult wrong using math, and you go right back to vague insults and the MC issue.

    When I made the statement, "Level 16, and the gear that came with it, represented a paradigm shift in DDO for me, It was the first time my pure class build was finally as powerful, if not more powerful than almost every multiclassed melee build(in terms of dps, skills umd included, hp, AC, and saves)." It was true, and still holds true, this build at 16, with all the gear, is as powerful, if not more powerful than almost every multclassed melee build in terms of dps, skills, hp, ac, and saves. Notice how I said almost, not just every, but almost every. I'm not living in any denial at all, I recognize that there are a few builds that are better, I never said there weren't. You were the one who said that I said there weren't, and then preceded to argue against it. You are making arguements up in your head and then argueing them, its kind of funny to be honest. I just don't see how you and your friends can't understand that, THIS THREAD IS ABOUT A PURE CLASS DWARVEN STRENGTH BASED RANGER.I find it rediculous that you can't understand that.

    Edit: Furthermore here is a qoute from 78mackson coming out the Yarhovah- obvious class split thread, he says "an update on this build, once u get all the good gear(or atleast tsing-tao) would be to:
    swap out Oversized for Quicken. A rangers to-hit is silly high so +2 more or less doesnt matter. Quicken does matter. Especially when chained, cursed, and you got a rednamed on you with 2 of his best friends.." So Here is an example where he states that rangers have a high to-hit, and advises someone that loosing +2 to-hit does not matter. Yet he calls me a noob and said this build is build is very gimped for the exact same reason. TALK ABOUT DOUBLE STANDARDS. I think I've finally shown that this guy just says anything to troll.

    Edit: Haha heres another example from the same thread where 78mackson says "doubt that +2 more to-hit will be a factor". lol.

    Edit:Even funnier, here is 78macksons to-hit breakdown for his build that he advertises AB(normal mode)
    15 bab
    05 weapon
    15 str
    09 song
    01 haste
    01 Weapon focus
    01 Focusing chant
    02 Tsingtao
    -5 pa
    -4 TWF (without otwf)
    -------
    +39 (41 recitation, 46 madstoned or DP-clicky)

    Hehe fully buffed but no madstone, I see you use that (+50) I have a better to hit at level 16 than his build does at 20 with all the gear. lol.

    So, I've shown that you have double standards, and have pointed out that my build at level 16 has a better to hit than your personally advertised build does at level 20, lets see you argue that.
    Last edited by Seregon; 11-01-2009 at 10:21 PM.

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    [QUOTE=Seregon;2527793][QUOTE=Seregon;2526917]

    Quote Originally Posted by 78mackson View Post

    That is your response to my answer regarding the to-hit of the build? I qouted my answer and your response above so everyone could see how I like to use math, while you use... vague insults. I prove your to-hit insult wrong using math, and you go right back to vague insults and the MC issue.

    When I made the statement, "Level 16, and the gear that came with it, represented a paradigm shift in DDO for me, It was the first time my pure class build was finally as powerful, if not more powerful than almost every multiclassed melee build(in terms of dps, skills umd included, hp, AC, and saves)." It was true, and still holds true, this build at 16, with all the gear, is as powerful, if not more powerful than almost every multclassed melee build in terms of dps, skills, hp, ac, and saves. Notice how I said almost, not just every, but almost every. I'm not living in any denial at all, I recognize that there are a few builds that are better, I never said there weren't. You were the one who said that I said there weren't, and then preceded to argue against it. You are making arguements up in your head and then argueing them, its kind of funny to be honest. I just don't see how you and your friends can't understand that, THIS THREAD IS ABOUT A PURE CLASS DWARVEN STRENGTH BASED RANGER.I find it rediculous that you can't understand that.

    Edit: Furthermore here is a qoute from 78mackson coming out the Yarhovah- obvious class split thread, he says "an update on this build, once u get all the good gear(or atleast tsing-tao) would be to:
    swap out Oversized for Quicken. A rangers to-hit is silly high so +2 more or less doesnt matter. Quicken does matter. Especially when chained, cursed, and you got a rednamed on you with 2 of his best friends.." So Here is an example where he states that rangers have a high to-hit, and advises someone that loosing +2 to-hit does not matter. Yet he calls me a noob and said this build is build is very gimped for the exact same reason. TALK ABOUT DOUBLE STANDARDS. I think I've finally shown that this guy just says anything to troll.

    Edit: Haha heres another example from the same thread where 78mackson says "doubt that +2 more to-hit will be a factor". lol.

    Edit:Even funnier, here is 78macksons to-hit breakdown for his build that he advertises AB(normal mode)
    15 bab
    05 weapon
    15 str
    09 song
    01 haste
    01 Weapon focus
    01 Focusing chant <---- HINT HINT!
    02 Tsingtao
    -5 pa
    -4 TWF (without otwf)
    -------
    +39 (41 recitation, 46 madstoned or DP-clicky)

    Hehe fully buffed but no madstone, I see you use that (+50) I have a better to hit at level 16 than his build does at 20 with all the gear. lol.

    So, I've shown that you have double standards, and have pointed out that my build at level 16 has a better to hit than your personally advertised build does at level 20, lets see you argue that.
    you could atleast have found a build that is a ranger .. but yeah, your right--- if your ranger and my bard would fight side by side my bard would probably steal aggro off your ranger and miss flanking + SA bonus.... for some odd reason I got +55(according to that screenhot I got there) so I bet he surpasses your ranger in the to-hit aswell ^^

    you should really-really read this thread again. or wait .. you should really read this thread again!!!!. (there we go)

    btw why are u calling it a strenght ranger? you got lower base strenght then an 28point halfer-build.
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  14. #34
    Community Member Gleipner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seregon View Post
    Myddo.com... hmm does not appear to be a website, I'd still love to see your current build.
    Try scrolling to the top of the thread next to: DDO.com, Compendium, MY DDO, Forums, My Account.

    And for the dice here is an clearification:
    Mackson was clearly talking about the benefit of strength and how it effects to hit, and in the sense 1 to hit (2 str) will always be 5% on a d20 roll. And as the whole system is based on the d20 (hence why it's called the d20 rules) there is no need to say "d20" in each and every sentance regarding to hit.
    You completely missread what Mackon said, he might have made it a bit hard to understand, but if you take a moment to actually read it and comprehend the context, you will see that he means, +5% hit rate, and not as stated, +5% to hit


    Anyway gl with your rng-build m8e.
    Last edited by Gleipner; 11-02-2009 at 07:49 AM.

  15. #35
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    Default please stop

    please stop posting nonsense, i.e., the thread will be closed again

    we all know that 18/1/1 is the greatest build ever

    however, some people like to play pure rangers

    OP's original post was a great template for players who want a main character to play regularly and take the time to equip with great gear

    the great thing about DDO is that we can play on different servers and with the people that we want to

    let's just agree to disagree

    later

  16. #36
    Community Member Gleipner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSFurious View Post
    we all know that 18/1/1 is the greatest build ever

    let's just agree to disagree
    It´s great but not the greatest

    And yes lets agree on that.

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    [QUOTE=78mackson;2528101][QUOTE=Seregon;2527793]
    Quote Originally Posted by Seregon View Post



    you could atleast have found a build that is a ranger .. but yeah, your right--- if your ranger and my bard would fight side by side my bard would probably steal aggro off your ranger and miss flanking + SA bonus.... for some odd reason I got +55(according to that screenhot I got there) so I bet he surpasses your ranger in the to-hit aswell ^^

    you should really-really read this thread again. or wait .. you should really read this thread again!!!!. (there we go)

    btw why are u calling it a strenght ranger? you got lower base strenght then an 28point halfer-build.
    Your SS is for a different character called Inspectah Deck and build then your advertised Mumm bard build, and I was clearly talking about my ranger at level 16, having a higher to hit than your Mumm bard build, and I used the to-hit you listed in your own post. There is no discrepency there, I have shown that your my ranger has a higher to hit at level 16 (+50) than your Mumm bard does at 20(+46). You also used things such as madstone which I don't, and I did not count any FE bonus either. Your Bard would not steal aggro from my ranger, even at 20. Nothing I said should lead any intelligent individual to believe so. LOL if you followed your own statements, then according to your beliefs about to-hit your bard would never steal any aggro, You said my ranger would hit on a 15 and miss on a 2(which is a pretty vague statement anyways) but your Mumm bard to-hit is listed at +39 up to +46 thats 4 to 11 lower than mine. According to own your beliefs your bard would barely be able to hit on an 11, let alone a 4. Why would I have to re-read the thread, every vague insult you come here with I refute using math and your own qoutes.

    I call it a strength-based ranger because strength is its highest stat, and the weapons the build uses, dwarven axes, use strength for their to-hit bonus and strength for their damage bonus.
    Last edited by Seregon; 11-02-2009 at 09:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleipner View Post
    Try scrolling to the top of the thread next to: DDO.com, Compendium, MY DDO, Forums, My Account.

    And for the dice here is an clearification:
    Mackson was clearly talking about the benefit of strength and how it effects to hit, and in the sense 1 to hit (2 str) will always be 5% on a d20 roll. And as the whole system is based on the d20 (hence why it's called the d20 rules) there is no need to say "d20" in each and every sentance regarding to hit.
    You completely missread what Mackon said, he might have made it a bit hard to understand, but if you take a moment to actually read it and comprehend the context, you will see that he means, +5% hit rate, and not as stated, +5% to hit


    Anyway gl with your rng-build m8e.
    Oh yeah? Thats what he meant? Then why did he post "every little bit that can get you closer to 60+ in to-hit will be 5% more to-hit.." Incase your unaware, it does not matter what you meant, all that matters is what was actually said and regardless of your troll self admitting it not, 78mackson said "will be 5% more to-hit". Its nice though, that you feel obliged to follow 78mackson around the forums attemping to correct and clarify his false, vague statements.

    Torthur Hareft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seregon View Post
    Oh yeah? Thats what he meant? Then why did he post "every little bit that can get you closer to 60+ in to-hit will be 5% more to-hit.." Incase your unaware, it does not matter what you meant, all that matters is what was actually said and regardless of your troll self admitting it not, 78mackson said "will be 5% more to-hit". Its nice though, that you feel obliged to follow 78mackson around the forums attemping to correct and clarify his false, vague statements.

    Torthur Hareft
    maybe its vague to you, so lets clarify:
    If mobs have 60 ac and you got +50 to-hit, another +2 in to-hit will be a 10% increase of hitting not 1.6%... if mobs had 20 in ac it wouldnt be no increase at all.

    "every little bit that can get you closer to 60+ in to-hit will be 5% more to-hit.." (I highlighted it for you. No capital letters or underlines thou)

    For a straight Ranger to not get max FE and max strenght is pretty daft. Its like going with 15 in int and max wisdom on a wizard and still only do DC spells..no one would encourage a build like that... or? Not saying that it wouldnt work.. cause heck u can defend any build to the teeth when it comes to DDO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 78mackson View Post
    maybe its vague to you, so lets clarify:
    If mobs have 60 ac and you got +50 to-hit, another +2 in to-hit will be a 10% increase of hitting not 1.6%... if mobs had 20 in ac it wouldnt be no increase at all.

    "every little bit that can get you closer to 60+ in to-hit will be 5% more to-hit.." (I highlighted it for you. No capital letters or underlines thou)

    For a straight Ranger to not get max FE and max strenght is pretty daft. Its like going with 15 in int and max wisdom on a wizard and still only do DC spells..no one would encourage a build like that... or? Not saying that it wouldnt work.. cause heck u can defend any build to the teeth when it comes to DDO.
    I love how 78mackson always has to throw in the random statement irrelevant to everything. Starting with 15str instead of 18, and maxing other, better enhancements, is NOTHING like putting 15 into int and maxing wisdom on a wizard. Not sure why you continue to argue on this thread that starting with 15 str is bad. Starting with 15 str instead of 18 only causes you to loose 2 to-hit and I've qouted you in 2 other threads saying that rangers have a very high to-hit and that loosing +2 to-hit will not matter. The people you told loosing +2 to-hit wont matter even had a lower to-hit than this build. So if it does not matter to their build why does it matter to this build? Take your double standards elsewhere please.

    Regarding the enhancements, since you appear to know so much about them, what enhancements should I drop to get "max FE" (i also noticed you said Max FE which does not even make sense. Did you mean FE damage or FE to-hit? Not surprised it goes with your whole very vague thing) as you put it? Here is what I run with at level 16 (note this was pre tempest II and III) Ranger skill boost IV, Dwarven Axe attack II, Dwarven Axe damage I, Dwarven consistution II, Dwarven spell defense III, Racial Toughness IV, Ranger Favored Damage I, Ranger Favored defense I, Ranger favored resistance I, Ranger tempest I, Ranger Devotion IV and Ranger Dexterity II. What 4 ranks or 12 enhancement points should I drop to fill in your "max FE".

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