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  1. #1381
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artos_Fabril View Post
    +10 Densewood Improved Cursespewing Repeating Heavy Crossbow of Greater Monstrous Humanoid Bane
    Is this where we joke about the size of one's minotaur?

  2. #1382
    Community Member Meetch1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    +10 Icy Burst Flametouched Iron Improved Cursespewing Throwing Hammer of Greater Chaotic Outsider Bane

    +10 Icy Burst densewood Improved Cursespewing Repeating Heavy Crossbow of Greater Chaotic Outsider Bane

    These are the longest ones I can come up with off the top of my head. Unknown if the titles for fully formed Greensteel or Alchemical will be longer. Obviously we don't have +10 at the moment, but it would not be unthinkable to have it at some point in the future.
    If they have of those Risia kits on, wouldn't that make them longer? (above - not sure where it goes).

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  3. #1383
    Community Member Fedora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meetch1972 View Post
    If they have of those Risia kits on, wouldn't that make them longer? (above - not sure where it goes).
    Nope, the Festival Icy Burst does not change the name of the item, it becomes the first listed attribute though.
    Last edited by Fedora; 02-26-2013 at 07:53 AM.

  4. #1384
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Masterwork Greater Spell Penetration VI Flametouched Repeating Heavy Crossbow of Greater Monstrous Humanoid Bane

    Playing with the Item Builder, this is the longest name I could come up with. I think if we can fit that in, that probably ought to cover 99% of anything anyone would come up with.
    Last edited by Ron; 02-26-2013 at 08:31 AM.
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  5. #1385
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Masterwork Greater Spell Penetration VI Flametouched Repeating Heavy Crossbow of Greater Monstrous Humanoid Bane

    Playing with the Item Builder, this is the longest name I could come up with. I think if we can fit that in, that probably ought to cover 99% of anything anyone would come up with.
    I've never seen a flametouched "string" based ranged weapon though. Something craft...

    Ah heck. Ron, there is a chance that store bought weapons that are used for crafting could be longer still.

    My rule of thumb would be to take the longest you can come up with and add 16 more spaces for the string. (16 vs 15 for ending null closer.)

  6. #1386
    Hero Phoenix-daBard's Avatar
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    My opinion is that if someone has a weapon that is so elaborately named then they know what it is and it is okay to either wrap or truncate the name in the printout. In the display I would just truncate and use a tool tip if you wish to show the full name.

  7. #1387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Ah heck. Ron, there is a chance that store bought weapons that are used for crafting could be longer still.
    +5 Holy Burst Blessed Silver Quarterstaff of Greater Evil Outsider Bane

    someone can come up with longer, but that one comes to mind cuz i have an acrobat now...

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  8. #1388
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix-daBard View Post
    My opinion is that if someone has a weapon that is so elaborately named then they know what it is and it is okay to either wrap or truncate the name in the printout. In the display I would just truncate and use a tool tip if you wish to show the full name.
    Yeah, I ended up wrapping the name if the name has more than 65 characters in it, across two lines. Using that method, I put in the longest name I could come up with and we had plenty of room. So yeah, I think that issue is resolved. On to the next section...
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
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  9. #1389
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    If you guys are interested in what it looks like so far, this is what I have programmed up through today:

    http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO/DDO C...Plan Print.pdf

    Forgive the swirl graphic, it's not finalized yet, and I have to do some work on it to get it to fit properly.

    All this is live data, there's nothing fake here (i.e. I didn't put in text to substitute for actual data, this is all data pulled from the character).

    Now, on an actual printer the graphics will print in black and white (unless you use color print). But they look fine in B/W as well.

    I know, there are only three sections done (counting the header). But there was quite a bit of setup time for putting together/printing the graphics and printing lines and printing shaded boxes. And also, the Abilities section was a ***** I think it should go faster now that I'm actually printing data. Hopefully.

    If you have suggestions on what is there so far, let me know.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

    DDO Character Planner (Version 04.25.03) (Preview Screenshot) - Now with Warlocky goodness!
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  10. #1390
    Hero RaidMR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    I know, there are only three sections done (counting the header). But there was quite a bit of setup time for putting together/printing the graphics and printing lines and printing shaded boxes. And also, the Abilities section was a ***** I think it should go faster now that I'm actually printing data. Hopefully.

    If you have suggestions on what is there so far, let me know.
    Wait... you're coding in the graphics (i.e. Pictures, headers, shading, lines, etc.)?! Wouldn't it be easier to use a template and then just map where the values are supposed to go? At any rate it's a good start, though I would be concerned that you might get bogged down in modifying a lot of graphical elements when trying to fit things in.

    As you are finding with long weapon string names, figuring out how to accommodate the maximum length is one thing, then arranging the other associated elements around it is another. If the crossbow you got there is the longest possible, then you may have plenty of room to trim down that combat options section (as you could have probably wrapped the text after "flametouched" for two full lines of text) but different strings wrap at different points so make sure you have some wiggle room there. Oh yeah and watch the 'attack bonus' and 'critical' lines as they may need some expansion or contraction.

    Along the lines of spacing you might have extra space in the abilities section. In the 'total' line for stats we all know that 3 digit scores are possible. I would set the length of each of those boxes to accommodate 199, the rest (base to enchanted) I would set to accommodate two digits, the end modifier box needs to be slightly bigger than two digits to accommodate the +/- signs.

    The elements in the headers like the swirl image and text should have the same starting point within the header and same spacing (justification) between them. And (just as a reminder) for a uniform look vertical and horizontal spacing should be consistent between the different sections of the document.

    Finally, please, please, please don't use comic sans for the toon name.

    (You did that on purpose didn't you?)

    All in all a great start.

    BTW I re-did the pg2 I posted a while back to only list DDO skills. Here's the link to the one with no notes, and with notes it leaves oodles of room on that page after the non-ddo stuff was removed.
    Last edited by RaidMR; 02-28-2013 at 02:08 PM. Reason: typos

  11. #1391
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    This freaking awesome Ron I misunderstood what you meant when you said your were going to do this...this is way cooler (Not that what I originally thought you were doing wasn't this is just even cooler)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  12. #1392
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaidMR View Post
    Wait... you're coding in the graphics (i.e. Pictures, headers, shading, lines, etc.)?! Wouldn't it be easier to use a template and then just map where the values are supposed to go? At any rate it's a good start, though I would be concerned that you might get bogged down in modifying a lot of graphical elements when trying to fit things in.
    Yes, I'm doing it via programming rather than using a big graphic template. While certainly the latter would be easier initially, it doesn't lend itself to easy changes, I'd have to photoshop a new graphic every time I wanted to make a change.

    The way I'm coding it is by sections (so there is a routine specifically for drawing out the abilities section, the combat options section, and so forth), I can immediately know the exact routine to go to if I want to move something around a bit. So yeah, it's maybe a bit harder in the beginning, but it will make for easier upkeep in the future.

    As you are finding with long weapon string names, figuring out how to accommodate the maximum length is one thing, then arranging the other associated elements around it is another. If the crossbow you got there is the longest possible, then you may have plenty of room to trim down that combat options section (as you could have probably wrapped the text after "flametouched" for two full lines of text) but different strings wrap at different points so make sure you have some wiggle room there. Oh yeah and watch the 'attack bonus' and 'critical' lines as they may need some expansion or contraction.
    That isn't the longest (I actually meant to hit Greater Monstrous Humanoid Bane for the suffix, but I missed ). Even so, we do have quite a bit of room. I don't want to shrink it any though. I think we are about right.

    And yeah, I can adjust those line sizes very easily (this goes perfectly back to what I was saying above. To change those line sizes now, I simply have to modify these lines of code:

    PrintLine(hDC, EntryLine, 48.7f, 32.2f, 5.3f);
    PrintLine(hDC, EntryLine, 55.0f, 25.2f, 9.0f);

    to something like:

    PrintLine(hDC, EntryLine, 48.7f, 32.2f, 8.0f);
    PrintLine(hDC, EntryLine, 55.0f, 25.2f, 6.0f);

    (or whatever it needs to be) and they change. Contrast that to if I used a graphic for the entire page, where I'd have to take it into photoshop and fix the entire file. Not hard, but not as easy either

    Along the lines of spacing you might have extra space in the abilities section. In the 'total' line for stats we all know that 3 digit scores are possible. I would set the length of each of those boxes to accommodate 199, the rest (base to enchanted) I would set to accommodate two digits, the end modifier box needs to be slightly bigger than two digits to accommodate the +/- signs.
    Yeah, I think you are right. Looking at it now, the modifier box isn't big enough to accommodate two digits plus the sign, so we should increase that. The rest of the entries can be decreased a little to compensate, while the Totals entry remains the same (It can hold a three digit value as is, I think it's about right).

    And yeah, I try to keep the sections of the printout lined up, as much as I can manage to do so.

    Finally, please, please, please don't use comic sans for the toon name.
    LOL. Well, I wanted it to stand out as different. I want the name to be front and center to draw your attention to it. I don't know about everyone else, but I often have four or five builds sitting on my desk, and I like to be able to see who belongs to which page at a glance.

    Give me a better alternative, keeping in mind, our font selection is pretty limited. You are basically limited to the fonts listed on this page:

    http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html

    I tried a few of them, and at that size (which is 30 point) they all tend to look like ****. But if you see one you like better, I can give it a shot, no problem at all.

    BTW I re-did the pg2 I posted a while back to only list DDO skills. Here's the link to the one with no notes, and with notes it leaves oodles of room on that page after the non-ddo stuff was removed.
    Cool. Yeah, lots of room. I've been using your first two pages as a sort of a guide (although I've moved stuff around a bit, depending on where it fits. I just did most of the saves section today, and it doesn't fit in where you had originally put it). Stuff will kind of naturally find spaces to live, I think. I'm not much of a pre-planner, hehe.

    But yeah, we can put non-worn equipment on that second page. Maybe even animal companion data at some point (which is yet another long term goal I have for the planner).

    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    This freaking awesome Ron I misunderstood what you meant when you said your were going to do this...this is way cooler (Not that what I originally thought you were doing wasn't this is just even cooler)
    Well thanks. I've never been happy with the printout. I always did want it to look like a D&D character page, I've just never had the time to put into it. Since we hit level 25 and the old printout no longer worked, I had to make the time
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

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  13. #1393
    Community Member MarQuileth's Avatar
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    Better make room for up level 28+...changes on the horizon.
    "An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools." - Ernest Hemmingway

  14. #1394
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarQuileth View Post
    Better make room for up level 28+...changes on the horizon.
    The planner UI as it exists now has room to grow to level 30. And without changing too much, it can go to level 36. Beyond that, I'd have to make more significant changes to the UI. We will cross that bridge when we come to it
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

    DDO Character Planner (Version 04.25.03) (Preview Screenshot) - Now with Warlocky goodness!
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  15. #1395
    Hero Silken-Akira's Avatar
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    thanks for the great work

  16. #1396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    I want the name to be front and center to draw your attention to it. I don't know about everyone else, but I often have four or five builds sitting on my desk, and I like to be able to see who belongs to which page at a glance.

    Give me a better alternative, keeping in mind, our font selection is pretty limited. You are basically limited to the fonts listed on this page:

    http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html

    I tried a few of them, and at that size (which is 30 point) they all tend to look like ****. But if you see one you like better, I can give it a shot, no problem at all.
    Hmm well given that list the old standby is usually Arial Black for a header... now others you probably would want to try (or probably have tried) are:
    • Arial (Bolded)
    • Impact
    • Tahoma (Bold)
    • Geneva (bold)
    • Trebuchet (Bold) <-some doubt over how MS handles this one
    • Verdana (Bold)

  17. #1397
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaidMR View Post
    Hmm well given that list the old standby is usually Arial Black for a header... now others you probably would want to try (or probably have tried) are:
    • Arial (Bolded)
    • Impact
    • Tahoma (Bold)
    • Geneva (bold)
    • Trebuchet (Bold) <-some doubt over how MS handles this one
    • Verdana (Bold)
    Cool, I can give some of those a try. Tahoma is out because I'm already using it (it's the font used for static labels (like "Charisma")).

    IMO, Arial (and it's cousin Arial Black) just look bad once you get above about 16 point. And I've never found Impact to be very readable. The only problem I have with Veranda is it is pretty much the same as Tahoma (if you look at the Mac equivalent, they are both called Geneva). What do you think about Palatino Bold? Trebuchet Bold could be alright.

    I'll give them a try and see how they look in large point.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

    DDO Character Planner (Version 04.25.03) (Preview Screenshot) - Now with Warlocky goodness!
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  18. #1398
    Hero RaidMR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Cool, I can give some of those a try. Tahoma is out because I'm already using it (it's the font used for static labels (like "Charisma")).

    IMO, Arial (and it's cousin Arial Black) just look bad once you get above about 16 point. And I've never found Impact to be very readable. The only problem I have with Veranda is it is pretty much the same as Tahoma (if you look at the Mac equivalent, they are both called Geneva). What do you think about Palatino Bold? Trebuchet Bold could be alright.

    I'll give them a try and see how they look in large point.
    For me it's hard to tell what looks good and what's bad. I used photoshop to look at the selection I suggested and Arial looks ok... though I don't like Impact much and I see what your saying about Veranda and Tahoma.

    For some odd reason I don't have Palatino Bold (I have Palatino Linotype, so my opinion is based on that). I think it's ok, it's kind of close to Times New Roman but would still be appropriate for a stand-out title.

  19. #1399
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Hey gang,

    Is there a more current version of this "Definitive AC" thread floating around anymore?

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=205669

    I followed a number of these to this point, getting ever more current, but this one seemed to dead end here, and it's over three years old.

    I think Dodge has changed now, hasn't it? It no longer affects your AC number, if I read the patch notes correctly. I need to really know the mechanics of AC if I want to provide a breakdown on the character sheet printout. Even the Wiki doesn't appear to be up to date with this stuff.

    The breakdown I have for AC is as follows:

    Total = Base + Armor + Shield + Dex + Wis + Size + Natural + Deflection + Centered + [DODGE???] + Misc

    Does that seem right? A lot of equipment gives "Insight" bonus to AC (and also possibly "Sacred"), but that appears to go into the Misc category, if I'm reading the Wiki properly

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_Class_bonuses

    So if I'm guessing, you take all your equipped equipment, find the highest given Insight bonus, and that adds to your Misc bonus. Same deal for Sacred (or do you guys think it would be better to make these entirely separate listed categories?)

    We do have some AC calculations already in the planner, but to be honest, I'm not sure how correct or up-to-date they are, so I don't want to go by them. I'm trying to build this pretty much from scratch.
    Last edited by Ron; 03-11-2013 at 09:42 AM.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

    DDO Character Planner (Version 04.25.03) (Preview Screenshot) - Now with Warlocky goodness!
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  20. #1400

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    With the MotU combat changes, all the old formulas are completely obsolete. Dodge was changed so it doesn't directly mod your AC, and you have several of the defensive PrEs that change AC by a percentage instead of a flat amount.

    I haven't seen anything new along the lines of the definitive AC thread, which is now basically worthless.
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