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  1. #1521
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    It's amazing that out of the thousands of people who play this a lot, only a couple of people have ever made planners. In even the most obscure gaming communities, I find there is almost never a lack of minutely detailed guides and walkthroughs. I wonder why there are so few people in the DDO community who bother to write and release these kinds of tools?

    You'd think with the information technology skills out there, someone could whip something like this up in no time. I guess DDO really is a niche, niche, niche game and I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people who log in regularly is in the few thousands.
    I have a novel idea.. if no one has suggested this already.. Why don't you do it!

  2. #1522
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    No, that's actually an amazingly accurate portrayal of what I do. I spend my days manipulating chunks on rotating cubes while gyrating around the desk chair.

    Damn, now the secret is out. I must kill you all.
    LOL.. Well as others have said, thank you for all the effort you have put into the Planners you make. Total Respect Man!

  3. #1523
    Community Member wraxzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    ...When I have my own original game up and running, you can be sure I'll be accepting tips for that
    Your planner has been quite valuable to me for spot-references in the past and clearly took a lot of time and effort and discipline to make such a planner. Perhaps when you have your own game up and running, I could be a Founder too =)

    Keep up the good work, I'm greatly anticipating the release of your new planner- GREATLY! In the meantime, may the odds be ever in your favor.

    Regards - Wraxz

  4. #1524
    Community Member Book_O_Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    With the forum templates system we have in mind, you should be able to do this, yes. You will be able to create whatever sort of output with whatever sort of codes your forum takes and save it as a template. Using that template, you will be able to output all your character builds in that format.

    That system is a little ways into the future, but not so far now. Once we get past this enhancment and ED thing, that will be what I will be working on.
    Thanks.
    I'm looking for an export option without any coding tags including the "code box"and it's annoying having to remove the color tagsfrom each line.
    The worst problem on the DDO forums right now

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  5. #1525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    No, that's actually an amazingly accurate portrayal of what I do. I spend my days manipulating chunks on rotating cubes while gyrating around the desk chair.

    Damn, now the secret is out. I must kill you all.
    But must you drink all that wine? Seriously think of your liver!


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  6. #1526
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    Actually you've a big role in the game itself. Without your work, DDO couldn't be as much enjoyable.

    You should really accept tips. Indeed, you should be salaried by Turbine itself.
    I agree with the first 3 points, but strenuously object to the fourth...
    "I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities" - Vaarsuvius, OoTS #674

  7. #1527
    Community Member WilliamBraveheart's Avatar
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    First I would like to thank Ron and his Team for a great tool. I am looking forward to the release with the new enhancement system.
    Reading On your forums it looks like you are getting close to this release. Any Idea as to when?


    Lookin for sumthin to kill!!

  8. #1528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catteras View Post
    1. What is the point of others making character planners when the one these guys make is so awesome?
    2. If you think programming is easy and stuff like this can just be "whipped up" I have two suggestions. First, go take a Java programming class to get an idea of what it is like. Second, stick your head in the back end of a program sometime ( the code I mean). The complexity and vastness will astound you.

    It does not surprise me that it takes some time to update the planner. What does surprise me is that these guys do it for free. My hat off to you folks!
    1. What you are saying is logically flawed, other similar games have many resources.
    2. This is also logically flawed, based on all kinds of assumptions, none of which are relevant.

    To me it's a sign that DDO is an extremely niche game and there are only a few thousand people playing. But those that do play are lucrative enough addicts to this particular gambling system, to make it viable to continue developing.

  9. #1529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    In no time? Heh. Wow.

    I don't know about everyone else's tools, but I can tell you the Character Planner is very complex. Thousands upon thousands of lines of code. All of which has to work together and be debugged (there are times when I've worked all afternoon on 10 lines of code).

    But that's not really the biggest barrier to writing tools. It's the data input. Point in fact: The text file for just the new enhancement system will end up being somewhere around 25,000 lines long. And that's not just random **** we are putting in. Each line has to be typed in manually, and it has to be accurate. An inaccurate line, at best, might just screw up somebodies character. At worst, it could crash the program or corrupt save data. So yeah, we have to take great pains that the 25,000 lines of text we are typing in are as accurate as we can make them. And that's just one system. Then you have spells, feats, classes, races, equipment, and destinies. All of which have the same issues.

    There is no "In no time" man. The work involved is immense. And most people don't want to put in that sort of time for a game. So no, it does not surprise me at all that there are not six character planner tools out there. It takes a special sort of idiot to create and maintain such a program for years on end for free. Lucky for y'all, I am just such an idiot
    This is something that Turbine should be providing. You are being exploited, but thanks for your work.

  10. #1530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    R2RS, I am a programmer and have managed projects with teams of over 200 developers. As a hobby I multi-box up to 6 clients in many games including DDO, NeverWinter, SWTOR, & WoW and even with great tools it is time consuming & complex. I was impressed with the earlier versions of the planners and it is significantly more difficult with the new changes...

    Suffice to say I think your assessment is wrong and, in addition to the planner, there are other good resources out there including one of my favorites:

    www.ddowiki.com

    There are many contributors who volunteer tirelessly to update things and give walk-throughs and what not...

    With respect, unless you have actually programmed something with any real complexity, you should consider not making such rash judgements about levels of effort required nor about communities...

    Ron, Thanks for all the great passion and commitment. Your planner allows me to help my buds who really don't want to have to deal with planning their characters & just want to play (yet want their characters to perform well).
    Sorry, but programming isn't one of the most difficult of human endeavors. I agree that it is time consuming and complex, but let me point out a common logical flaw in your thinking. The idea that because someone hasn't done something personally, that they can have no opinion on it. That is one of the most absurd and common fallacies I have ever encountered.

    Humans have been specializing for thousands of years since the dawn of agricultural civilization. We have also had language and writing for a very long time, which we use to communicate ideas. In light of those facts, emotional statements which dismiss the credibility of views on a subject which can be understood by the literate layperson, are disingenuous and motivated by other factors.

    It's in Turbine's best interests to have as little as possilbe information on character development. The more mistakes people make in the intentionally complex, unintuitive, non-user friendly system we currently have, the more money Turbine makes selling fixes in the store.

  11. #1531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    I have a novel idea.. if no one has suggested this already.. Why don't you do it!
    What a childish thing for an adult to post on the internet. I bet you think 'no you!' and copying people has some merit in discussions too right?

  12. #1532

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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    ...let me point out a common logical flaw in your thinking. The idea that because someone hasn't done something personally, that they can have no opinion on it. That is one of the most absurd and common fallacies I have ever encountered.
    Yet, you expressed no direct opinion other than speculating that DDO is a "niche, niche, niche game" ("niche" - a word so nice it was used thrice) apparently based on nothing more than a dearth of the player-supplied tool you feel should be abundant given your experience with other gaming communities. The remainder of your "opinions" were couched as leading, passive-aggressive questions.

    As long as we're being all logically pointy here, let me inform you of the most common logical fallacy committed by those of supposed superior intellect:

    Possessing higher intelligence does not automatically grant one an informed opinion.

    Intellectualizing will only provide a framework upon which to build with experience. The world is a messy place. It quite often doesn't conform to the pretty, clockwork pictures of HOW THINGS WORK we have in our heads. Try to remember that the next time you feel the need to idly speculate on topics about which you know little and have learned less.



    To Ron and everyone who has or continues to contribute time to the Planner: Thanks again for all your efforts.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  13. #1533
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebastianosmith View Post
    Yet, you expressed no direct opinion other than speculating that DDO is a "niche, niche, niche game" ("niche" - a word so nice it was used thrice) apparently based on nothing more than a dearth of the player-supplied tool you feel should be abundant given your experience with other gaming communities. The remainder of your "opinions" were couched as leading, passive-aggressive questions.

    As long as we're being all logically pointy here, let me inform you of the most common logical fallacy committed by those of supposed superior intellect:

    Possessing higher intelligence does not automatically grant one an informed opinion.

    Intellectualizing will only provide a framework upon which to build with experience. The world is a messy place. It quite often doesn't conform to the pretty, clockwork pictures of HOW THINGS WORK we have in our heads. Try to remember that the next time you feel the need to idly speculate on topics about which you know little and have learned less.



    To Ron and everyone who has or continues to contribute time to the Planner: Thanks again for all your efforts.
    It's not about looking smart it's about sticking to facts. We can only talk about what we know, a process which will lead us to the simplest form of the truth. The fact is trends in RPG's can be presented probabilistically and my impressions are built on personal experience. If I have noticed a lack of tools for DDO, compared to every latest Korean MMO that comes out, it is based on probability.

    If I notice less tools in my gaming life for DDO than most other games I've played, it is likely that there are few. That only leaves us with the question why. I speculate it's the low population of mostly adults who are too old, tired and addicted to bother. In games which might have a higher population of younger, energetic people, you will find more guides, strategies, fan fiction etc.

  14. #1534

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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    It's not about looking smart it's about sticking to facts. We can only talk about what we know, a process which will lead us to the simplest form of the truth. The fact is trends in RPG's can be presented probabilistically and my impressions are built on personal experience. If I have noticed a lack of tools for DDO, compared to every latest Korean MMO that comes out, it is based on probability.
    I've absolutely no doubt you consider whatever you've experienced to be "fact".

    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    If I notice less tools in my gaming life for DDO than most other games I've played, it is likely that there are few. That only leaves us with the question why.
    The only question left is why there aren't more tools for DDO? While you seem entranced with what may be the last, dark corner of your understanding, I prefer to use what there is and get on with other things. Seriously, who really cares how many there are? The ones we have work.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    I speculate it's the low population of mostly adults who are too old, tired and addicted to bother. In games which might have a higher population of younger, energetic people, you will find more guides, strategies, fan fiction etc.
    I speculate you've some ulterior motive to this line of inquiry as you've extrapolated personal attributes of the user base given a perceived lack of tools. That's quite the leap for someone truly reliant upon "facts".
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  15. #1535
    Blogger and Hatchery Hero
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    What a childish thing for an adult to post on the internet. I bet you think 'no you!' and copying people has some merit in discussions too right?

    dude. you said it should be no trouble at all to just whip one up in no time at all... if it's so dang easy and you need one NOW... make it your dang self.

    what's so childish about that? you ragging on the guy providing us this huge complex and awesome program FOR FREE is more childish, IMO.

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  16. #1536
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    If you could all shut your argument-holes, or perhaps move it into its own thread, that'd be much appreciated, by those of us watching this thread.

    Thank you.

  17. #1537

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    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    If you could all shut your argument-holes, or perhaps move it into its own thread, that'd be much appreciated, by those of us watching this thread.

    Thank you.
    Way to cancel the in-flight entertainment. Now what will we watch while watching this thread?

  18. #1538

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    I'd pay money for Ron's planner. Hell, for a couple of bucks, I'd pay each update. Wish he could make some bank on it.
    Proud Officer and Member of the Exploration Society Thelanis Server
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  19. #1539
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamBraveheart View Post
    First I would like to thank Ron and his Team for a great tool. I am looking forward to the release with the new enhancement system.
    Reading On your forums it looks like you are getting close to this release. Any Idea as to when?
    Hard to say. I feel like we are getting close. But there are still a fair number of bugs lurking about, some of which crash the program. Plus we still have 7 or 8 more trees to get put in.

    And of course we have a few miscellaneous things left to do that aren't related to the enhancement system. There is a new bit in the feats that has to be dealt with. There are changes to the save files. I have to finish up the printout (at least enough so that it is workable).

    I guess what I'm trying to say is: Soon.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
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  20. #1540
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    What a childish thing for an adult to post on the internet. I bet you think 'no you!' and copying people has some merit in discussions too right?
    Well hello there.

    Calling someone out on their claim, is not Childish at all, it is in fact a Mature and Adult response when someone is speaking or posting as the case may be with impetuousness and petulance. It is how we as a culture divide those who are blowing smoke and those who are the real deal.

    In any case, you claimed it would take no time at all, and should be easy. Well, if that is true, feel free to go and do it.

    If you have no idea what you are talking about and just being impatient about a service someone is offering freely out of good will, then, well we all know the common phrase about Petulant children.

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