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  1. #1501
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    "You have the right to remain stupid, feel free to invoke it at any time..." It's amazing that out of the thousands of people who play this a lot, only a couple of people have ever made planners. In even the most obscure gaming communities, I find there is almost never a lack of minutely detailed guides and walkthroughs. I wonder why there are so few people in the DDO community who bother to write and release these kinds of tools?

    You'd think with the information technology skills out there, someone could whip something like this up in no time. I guess DDO really is a niche, niche, niche game and I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people who log in regularly is in the few thousands.
    R2RS, I am a programmer and have managed projects with teams of over 200 developers. As a hobby I multi-box up to 6 clients in many games including DDO, NeverWinter, SWTOR, & WoW and even with great tools it is time consuming & complex. I was impressed with the earlier versions of the planners and it is significantly more difficult with the new changes...

    Suffice to say I think your assessment is wrong and, in addition to the planner, there are other good resources out there including one of my favorites:

    www.ddowiki.com

    There are many contributors who volunteer tirelessly to update things and give walk-throughs and what not...

    With respect, unless you have actually programmed something with any real complexity, you should consider not making such rash judgements about levels of effort required nor about communities...

    Ron, Thanks for all the great passion and commitment. Your planner allows me to help my buds who really don't want to have to deal with planning their characters & just want to play (yet want their characters to perform well).
    Last edited by Nodoze; 08-31-2013 at 11:34 AM.

  2. #1502
    Community Member Garix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    It's amazing that out of the thousands of people who play this a lot, only a couple of people have ever made planners. In even the most obscure gaming communities, I find there is almost never a lack of minutely detailed guides and walkthroughs. I wonder why there are so few people in the DDO community who bother to write and release these kinds of tools?

    You'd think with the information technology skills out there, someone could whip something like this up in no time. I guess DDO really is a niche, niche, niche game and I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people who log in regularly is in the few thousands.
    It isn't mandatory to try and live up to your Forum name. It's very admirable though that you're trying and succeeding with style.
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  3. #1503
    Community Member dlsidhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    In no time? Heh. Wow.

    I don't know about everyone else's tools, but I can tell you the Character Planner is very complex. Thousands upon thousands of lines of code. All of which has to work together and be debugged (there are times when I've worked all afternoon on 10 lines of code).

    But that's not really the biggest barrier to writing tools. It's the data input. Point in fact: The text file for just the new enhancement system will end up being somewhere around 25,000 lines long. And that's not just random **** we are putting in. Each line has to be typed in manually, and it has to be accurate. An inaccurate line, at best, might just screw up somebodies character. At worst, it could crash the program or corrupt save data. So yeah, we have to take great pains that the 25,000 lines of text we are typing in are as accurate as we can make them. And that's just one system. Then you have spells, feats, classes, races, equipment, and destinies. All of which have the same issues.

    There is no "In no time" man. The work involved is immense. And most people don't want to put in that sort of time for a game. So no, it does not surprise me at all that there are not six character planner tools out there. It takes a special sort of idiot to create and maintain such a program for years on end for free. Lucky for y'all, I am just such an idiot
    You have my immense appreciation (and sympathy, as a coder...25K lines of text? GEEARGH!) for all your work. Hat tip.
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  4. #1504
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    www.ddowiki.com

    There are many contributors who volunteer tirelessly to update things and give walk-throughs and what not...
    I hate to go off-topic here but I do gotta say one of the great things about DDOwiki is whilst there are a small handful of major contributors (awesome work guys) to it I'm sure there's hundreds of DDOers that have made minor updates/changes. So thanks to anyone who's done that as well.

    One thing that keeps me here despite the bugs and other issues is the community despite vastly different play styles and even different payment styles (some games the "subs" act like their royalty) in general we get along and dissenters are quickly run out. I might seem lame but it's almost like a really big family spread across the planet.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-31-2013 at 01:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  5. #1505
    Community Member Sarkastik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    But that's not really the biggest barrier to writing tools. It's the data input. Point in fact: The text file for just the new enhancement system will end up being somewhere around 25,000 lines long. And that's not just random **** we are putting in. Each line has to be typed in manually, and it has to be accurate.
    I've been wondering if there's any benefit to a semi-public database of this stuff, also especially items. It would be a full time effort in itself, as you've basically pointed out. I have often suspected the sheer volume (and accuracy) of data is a quick roadblock to many people considering doing something like this.It would be nice if this sort of tool (just the database, I mean) were available online in a format that some trusted members of the community could constantly edit and keep up to date.

  6. #1506
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    It's amazing that out of the thousands of people who play this a lot, only a couple of people have ever made planners.
    Actually, no, it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    In even the most obscure gaming communities, I find there is almost never a lack of minutely detailed guides and walkthroughs. I wonder why there are so few people in the DDO community who bother to write and release these kinds of tools?
    Guides and walk throughs? Really? You don't know the difference between a guide/walk through (hey look I uploaded a video to youtube) and a full fledged application like the planner? This ain't just an excel spreadsheet. Just sayin'.


    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    You'd think with the information technology skills out there, someone could whip something like this up in no time.
    Give some examples of other programs people have whipped up in no time, for any game.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    I guess DDO really is a niche, niche, niche game and I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people who log in regularly is in the few thousands.
    Your guess is as good as mine.

    So was your whole post supposed to be a slam against DDO, or Ron, or what? Essentially you insulted the community, Ron, and the game all in one post.

    You win the Thread Troll Award, congrats.

  7. #1507
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus-Hawkeye View Post
    I always find it funny that there are so many people out there who have this distorted vision of how computer systems function. It's like that 1990's movie Hackers... it gave such a horrendously false image of hacking that you just couldn't help but feel anger.
    Or Swordfish.




    If Ron is having as much fun as Wolverine is here, I can see why it is taking so long.


    Seriously though, good luck with the planner! Can't wait to see the new version!

  8. #1508
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    To be fair he could have programmed his PC to do that as he met certain parameters and is playing it up to pretend hacking is super cool to a friend or SO :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  9. #1509
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Having done a little programming, from 1980's COBOL days until a few years ago, I agree with Ron. There is no "In no time" for a good application.

    ...and Ron and his team made a very good application in the 3.x series.

    *lifts glass*

    Here's to you and your crew, Ron! May the stars shine upon you!
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  10. #1510
    Community Member drathdragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnhelm View Post
    Having done a little programming, from 1980's COBOL days until a few years ago, I agree with Ron. There is no "In no time" for a good application.
    Cobol ??

    didn't know that kobolds have their own computer language... asd

  11. #1511
    Community Member Garix's Avatar
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    Default A little help please

    Can some one confirm (or deny), for Half Elves, that taking any option in the 3rd core ability (Elven Accuracy / Human Versatility) locks out the same option in the 5th tier of the same name.

    Thanks in advance
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  12. #1512
    Community Member gDra's Avatar
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    If you choose Core2: Elven Dexterity;
    you are restricted to Core2: Elven Dexterity, Core3: Elven Accuracy, Core4: Elven Dexterity, Core5: Elven Accuracy. (human choices are locked out)

    If you choose Core2: Human Adaptability and Core3: Human Versatility (any);
    that same Human Versatility is locked out at Core5
    (Core5: Elven Accuracy is not locked out)

    If you choose Core2: Human Adaptability and Core3: Elven Accuracy;
    everything but Elven Accuracy is locked out at Core5

    Hope that answers everything.

    edit: I am really looking forward for the next version. Great work.
    Last edited by gDra; 09-01-2013 at 07:20 AM.
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  13. #1513
    Community Member Garix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gDra View Post
    If you choose Core2: Elven Dexterity;
    you are restricted to Core2: Elven Dexterity, Core3: Elven Accuracy, Core4: Elven Dexterity, Core5: Elven Accuracy. (human choices are locked out)

    If you choose Core2: Human Adaptability and Core3: Human Versatility (any);
    that same Human Versatility is locked out at Core5
    (Core5: Elven Accuracy is not locked out)

    If you choose Core2: Human Adaptability and Core3: Elven Accuracy;
    everything but Elven Accuracy is locked out at Core5

    Hope that answers everything.
    Thanks should help.
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  14. #1514
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    So was your whole post supposed to be a slam against DDO, or Ron, or what? Essentially you insulted the community, Ron, and the game all in one post.
    Well, let's not pile on the guy too much. I think perhaps he just misspoke. It may just be a bit of misunderstanding on how difficult programming really is (which, given how movies often portray the activity, is not all that uncommon, as you guys pointed out).

    Or it's possible he meant "whip up in no time" as a comparison to how much time it would have taken in earlier generations, like for instance if I were programming it using 6502 assembly language or something I mean, in that respect, he's right. The tool have come a long way since then. I remember the days when there was no ability to step through code or put a watch on a variable, and compilers were no more helpful than "syntax error line 345;". Ugggh. I could never go back to writing spaghetti code again, OOD is far too ingrained in my DNA at this point, heh.

    While it was a bit of a ridiculous statement, I'm not sure it was meant maliciously.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
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    DDO Character Planner (Version 04.25.03) (Preview Screenshot) - Now with Warlocky goodness!
    Let's Play DDO!! - My attempt to video document a FULL runthrough of DDO, completionist style (Currently working through level 3 quests)

  15. #1515
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    Exclamation Wait

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Or Swordfish.




    If Ron is having as much fun as Wolverine is here, I can see why it is taking so long.


    Seriously though, good luck with the planner! Can't wait to see the new version!
    You mean that dancing is not part of the coding process? Aw.
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  16. #1516
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    You mean that dancing is not part of the coding process? Aw.
    No, that's actually an amazingly accurate portrayal of what I do. I spend my days manipulating chunks on rotating cubes while gyrating around the desk chair.

    Damn, now the secret is out. I must kill you all.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

    DDO Character Planner (Version 04.25.03) (Preview Screenshot) - Now with Warlocky goodness!
    Let's Play DDO!! - My attempt to video document a FULL runthrough of DDO, completionist style (Currently working through level 3 quests)

  17. #1517
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    No, that's actually an amazingly accurate portrayal of what I do. I spend my days manipulating chunks on rotating cubes while gyrating around the desk chair.

    Damn, now the secret is out. I must kill you all.
    No wait, not yet! They still don't know about the candles and chickens!

  18. #1518
    Community Member niehues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    In no time? Heh. Wow.

    I don't know about everyone else's tools, but I can tell you the Character Planner is very complex. Thousands upon thousands of lines of code. All of which has to work together and be debugged (there are times when I've worked all afternoon on 10 lines of code).

    But that's not really the biggest barrier to writing tools. It's the data input. Point in fact: The text file for just the new enhancement system will end up being somewhere around 25,000 lines long. And that's not just random **** we are putting in. Each line has to be typed in manually, and it has to be accurate. An inaccurate line, at best, might just screw up somebodies character. At worst, it could crash the program or corrupt save data. So yeah, we have to take great pains that the 25,000 lines of text we are typing in are as accurate as we can make them. And that's just one system. Then you have spells, feats, classes, races, equipment, and destinies. All of which have the same issues.

    There is no "In no time" man. The work involved is immense. And most people don't want to put in that sort of time for a game. So no, it does not surprise me at all that there are not six character planner tools out there. It takes a special sort of idiot to create and maintain such a program for years on end for free. Lucky for y'all, I am just such an idiot


    you are such a special idiot.. thanks for all your work.. i have used the program a few times and its awesome.. it does not need to be perfect.. its something to make you plan and think on your toon.. i really use it in conjunction with wiki and of course.. pen and paper...

    is sad that ppl dont recognize it..

    only thing better than this would be a Dojo server always on like the one there is on lamma today.. something that u could copy your toon at any time and work on it..

    perhaps a server with 3 slots max.. that u copy your toon there and u can delete and copy again.. bla bla.. buildtest server :P

    damn it lost my focus..

    good work mate..

  19. #1519
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    Thank you for your hard work. I hopped over to your forums and noticed you put other things on hold in order to update this for us as soon as possible. I appreciate it. Best character building tool ever.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you.

  20. #1520
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    not to sound offensive, but couldn't you have used templates to speed up your coding?

    that being said i have been patiently waiting since u19 opened and have not once made a mental complaint or otherwise regarding the progress of the builder, i am just curious about this.

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