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  1. #1421
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaidMR View Post
    Hi Ron, glad to see you back! I think with the character sheet listing all the spells the toon can possibly have is probably going to be a pain in the butt. You might be thinking about it from a build export perspective, and then I get why you'd want all the spells listed.

    But if we are talking about the character sheet from a 'play' perspective then the spell section can simply be the 'prepared' spells... I know this can frequently change, but at least the list isn't super huge.
    The way I'm trying to think about the printout is from a PnP D&D angle. If you were playing D&D, how would you fill out this character sheet? That's what I'm trying to keep in the forefront of my brain as I'm designing these pages.

    The Inscription thing I don't think we can do anything about. The planner has no input methodology to handle inscribed spells, and I don't know that I want to put that in (seems like a bit of overkill from a character planner angle). If the user really wants to, they can always write it on the printout when they inscribe spells.

    I do like the idea of breaking down the box into three sections, one for each potential class. That solves several problems I have been wrestling with regarding listing the spells. But that does clash with how much room we have available on the page. I'm just about resigned to moving the spells to Page 2 and putting something else in that spot.

    Given all that, what we really have is the difference between picking spells at level-up (limited total spells) or picking them at the bar (all spells available), and how we show that on the printout. What would you do in PnP D&D? Probably you would just list the memorized spells. But we don't have that capability in the planner (it's the same issue as inscribed spells all over again).

    I suppose the best thing to do is figure out how many possible spells a player could have. Probably Druid or Cleric has the potential to have the most spells available at once (again, discounting inscribing scrolls). If I count up those spells, maybe that will tell us how many potential lines of text we are dealing with.

    <edit> BTW comic sans is still there..... kill it! kill it with fire! </edit>
    I will, don't worry. There will be a tweaking phase once all the sections are in and working.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
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  2. #1422
    Hero RaidMR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    The Inscription thing I don't think we can do anything about. The planner has no input methodology to handle inscribed spells, and I don't know that I want to put that in (seems like a bit of overkill from a character planner angle). If the user really wants to, they can always write it on the printout when they inscribe spells.
    Agreed, if you track the list of what a toon has inscribed or not you might as well put up a complete list of spells... and if you have 3 spell casting classes that would be one huge list!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    What would you do in PnP D&D? Probably you would just list the memorized spells. But we don't have that capability in the planner (it's the same issue as inscribed spells all over again).
    In PnP D&D if I had a spellbook and wanted to indicate what I had memorized at the time I would put a star by the spell name. That's the equivalent of having a check box next to the spell I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    I suppose the best thing to do is figure out how many possible spells a player could have. Probably Druid or Cleric has the potential to have the most spells available at once (again, discounting inscribing scrolls). If I count up those spells, maybe that will tell us how many potential lines of text we are dealing with.
    It's going to be a lot, that's why I was suggesting just "prepared" spells. I'm poking about the wiki to see if I can come up with an answer.

    <edit> After poking about in the wiki, I think a 17 Druid / 3 Artificer levels has 56 prepared spells available and 150 spells (using Cleric choices) to chose from. I'm not sure if this is exactly right though.
    Last edited by RaidMR; 05-31-2013 at 02:47 PM. Reason: I think I found an answer.

  3. #1423
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaidMR View Post
    In PnP D&D if I had a spellbook and wanted to indicate what I had memorized at the time I would put a star by the spell name. That's the equivalent of having a check box next to the spell I guess.
    Yeah, but I don't want to do that. Memorized spells change frequently (basically you can completely change them every time you go into a bar or use a rest shrine), so having such check boxes really doesn't have any place in the character planner (which is only meant to track permanent changes selected at level-up).

    So we don't have an interface for selecting memorized spells from a list of total spells, for the same reason we don't track inscribed spells. If you are a class that gets all the spells of a level, the planner simply lists all the spells for that class at that level, and it's up to the player to decide which ones to memorize on a per-quest basis. And really, I'd like to transfer that to the printout. The ONLY reason against it is the space requirements.

    <edit> After poking about in the wiki, I think a 17 Druid / 3 Artificer levels has 56 prepared spells available and 150 spells (using Cleric choices) to chose from. I'm not sure if this is exactly right though.
    Hmm, yeah, that's a lot. Damn.

    What if we were to do this: for those classes that get all the spells at level up, we simply state on the printout something like "All Level 1 Cleric spells" or somesuch? Kind of not the most informative thing, but it would save a ton of space.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
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  4. #1424
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Hey guys,

    So I finished a "first pass" at the spells section of the printout. It is basically divided into three sections, one for each possible class you have. For each section, it is further divided into 9 levels (for the 9 spell levels).

    As of right now, there are 25 slots for each level. Technically, you could overflow this (levels 1, 2, 4, and 6 of the wizard/sorc spells have >25 spells in them). No other class has more than 25 spells in any given spell level. So there is still a potential problem there, though I would imagine it would be relatively rare for someone to actually take more than 25 level 2 spells. But it could happen.

    Of course, this list takes up an entire page (and I thought I was going to get it in that one-eighth page slot at the bottom right of the first page, ah the naivety).

    Now, we could potentially save some space and perhaps solve the potential overflow problem if instead we were to combine the three lists into one master list. According to the Wiki (http://ddowiki.com/page/Spells) there are a total of 58 level 2 spells in the game (the highest of any level). It is probably not possible to get all 58 at once. What if we were to make a table with 40 slots for each level of spell. That would reduce our current table down from 75 lines (25 x 3). That would give us more room under the spells section for something else.

    But, it would mean all your spells for all your classes are mixed together (still separated by spell level, but your level 1 paladin spells would be mixed with your level 1 wizard spells and level 1 druid spells). Would you guys find that confusing? Or better?
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

    DDO Character Planner (Version 04.25.03) (Preview Screenshot) - Now with Warlocky goodness!
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  5. #1425
    Hero RaidMR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Now, we could potentially save some space and perhaps solve the potential overflow problem if instead we were to combine the three lists into one master list. According to the Wiki (http://ddowiki.com/page/Spells) there are a total of 58 level 2 spells in the game (the highest of any level). It is probably not possible to get all 58 at once. What if we were to make a table with 40 slots for each level of spell. That would reduce our current table down from 75 lines (25 x 3). That would give us more room under the spells section for something else.

    But, it would mean all your spells for all your classes are mixed together (still separated by spell level, but your level 1 paladin spells would be mixed with your level 1 wizard spells and level 1 druid spells). Would you guys find that confusing? Or better?
    Hmm while I honestly don't mind having all level 1 spells in the same list (usually multiclass casters don't have a lot of overlap) I was just thinking of a possible solution to at least identify which class it's from. My idea(s) are to identify the class of each spell either with an overlay of one or three letters or maybe a different colour/pattern around the spells to signify which class the belong too... Yeah it's kind of a half baked idea, but it could work!

    Last edited by RaidMR; 06-07-2013 at 02:41 PM. Reason: I can't splz

  6. #1426
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaidMR View Post
    My idea(s) are to identify the class of each spell either with an overlay of one or three letters or maybe a different colour/pattern around the spells to signify which class the belong too
    Yeah, I toyed with that idea this morning. Unfortunately, it's not really that simple. In some cases, a spell can be somewhat indeterminate in terms of where you get it from. For example, consider "Bulls Strength". This is a spell a lot of classes get (it's a level 2 spell). If you were to make a Cleric/Paladin hybrid, you could actually end up getting that spell from both classes.

    It gets worse!

    Some spells have different levels depending on what class you get them from. "Cure light wounds" for instance is a level 1 cleric spell, but it's a level 2 Druid spell. So where do we list it if the player makes a Cleric/Druid hybrid? It turns out that in the spell list (on the UI, not the printout), the planner will list the spell at the level related to the class that first got the spell. So if you were to take enough levels of Druid to get the Cure Light Wounds spell, and then multiclass in Cleric after that, the spell would always show up as a level 2 spell rather than level 1 (and vica versa if you take cleric first then druid, it would show up as a level 1 spell).

    That's fine (sort of). I suppose we can follow that same procedure for the printout. I may want to revist that in the future and rework how spells are handled to more correctly deal with that sort of case, but for the moment, it's fine.

    I think I'm just going to grab a list all the spells you know, alphabetize them, break them out by spell level, and show that. I don't think people really care very much what class knows what spells, they just want a list of spells (right?).
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
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  7. #1427

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Some spells have different levels depending on what class you get them from. "Cure light wounds" for instance is a level 1 cleric spell, but it's a level 2 Druid spell. So where do we list it if the player makes a Cleric/Druid hybrid? It turns out that in the spell list (on the UI, not the printout), the planner will list the spell at the level related to the class that first got the spell. So if you were to take enough levels of Druid to get the Cure Light Wounds spell, and then multiclass in Cleric after that, the spell would always show up as a level 2 spell rather than level 1 (and vica versa if you take cleric first then druid, it would show up as a level 1 spell).
    I was going to point this out to you as a bug. Spells seem to only have a single level in the planner. Resist Energy is another one, similar to Cure Light Wounds.

    When setting up my fighter/cleric build in the planner for display on the forums, the cleric Cure Light Wounds spell was listed in the planner as a level 2 spell so I had to manually move it to a level 1 spot in the display. (I do a lot of manual tweaking of the build display.) I had no spellcasting class levels other than cleric, so this was a bug. I assumed the bug was that spells only get a single level in the planner. If they get different levels depending on class, maybe give those spell levels a once-over.

    EDIT: Not sure how this reads, so I want to clarify that I love your planner to death and am impressed with your implementation. Fantastic work.

  8. #1428
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Yep, you are right. The spell Cure Light Wounds had an error in the text file. I have fixed that here.

    If you want to fix it in the meantime, open up the SpellFile in the DataFiles Directory and change the following two lines for that spell entry to this:

    CLASSLIST: Paladin, Ranger, Cleric, Bard, Favored Soul, Druid;
    LEVEL: 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 2;

    That should fix that. Or you can just wait for the next release for the official fix (which shouldn't be too far away now).
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

    DDO Character Planner (Version 04.25.03) (Preview Screenshot) - Now with Warlocky goodness!
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  9. #1429
    Founder THAC0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Yep, you are right. The spell Cure Light Wounds had an error in the text file. I have fixed that here.

    If you want to fix it in the meantime, open up the SpellFile in the DataFiles Directory and change the following two lines for that spell entry to this:

    CLASSLIST: Paladin, Ranger, Cleric, Bard, Favored Soul, Druid;
    LEVEL: 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 2;

    That should fix that. Or you can just wait for the next release for the official fix (which shouldn't be too far away now).
    Looking forward to it.

  10. #1430

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    CLASSLIST: Paladin, Ranger, Cleric, Bard, Favored Soul, Druid;
    LEVEL: 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 2;
    Nice, clearly just a minor bug as opposed to a conceptual problem like I feared.

    I took a quick look at resist energy and after cursory inspection it appears correct. Though I do notice that Bard isn't in the list for resist energy, which is clearly an embarrassing oversight.

    (Yes, that's a dig. No, it's not directed at Ron.)

  11. #1431
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    I'm on the verge of being done with spells.

    If you guys are interested, in theory, the largest number of spells of any given level you can have is by creating a 3/3/14 Cleric/Druid/Wizard (with a 20 starting INT).

    Such a character can, in theory, have 75 level 2 spells at their command. In fact, the matrix for that character for all levels 1-9 looks like this:

    56, 75, 59, 54, 41, 63, 38, 29, 19

    In actual fact, it's not quite that high, because there is some overlap in the spells for those classes. Also, the character couldn't actually get that high in all the levels (wizards get to select two spells at each level, so by the time you have selected all possible level 2 spells, you wouldn't have a whole lot of choices left over for the other levels of spells). Although you could get there by inscribing scrolls.

    As a practical matter I actually built this character, selecting only level 2 spells. He ended up with 56 level 2 spells (rather than 75, again, because of the overlap in spells between the classes). According to the DDO Wiki, there are only 58 level 2 spells in the entire game, so this character has all but two of them.

    Yeah, a lot of technical stuff, but I thought it might be interesting to you guys. In terms of what I will do for the printout, I have decided to give as many slots per spell level as are shown on the Wiki page for total number of spells at that level. Since I was able to get 56 out of a possible 58 on one character, that's probably the safest thing for us to do without having to worry about overflow.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
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  12. #1432
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    Go with a master list and then include tabs under the "known spells" box to filter.

    [ALL] [ART] [BRD] [CLR] [DRU] [FVS] [PAL] [RGR] [SOR] [WIZ]

    Click the tab to get a breakdown of spells by level for that specific class. [ALL] just gives you the list of spells you have learned in alphabetical order.

    Many thanks for the character planner, it's a godsend. Will there be an update coming for the new enhancements? or even better, is there a version available now?
    Last edited by Aolas; 06-18-2013 at 12:07 PM.

  13. #1433
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aolas View Post
    Go with a master list and then include tabs under the "known spells" box to filter.

    [ALL] [ART] [BRD] [CLR] [DRU] [FVS] [PAL] [RGR] [SOR] [WIZ]

    Click the tab to get a breakdown of spells by level for that specific class. [ALL] just gives you the list of spells you have learned in alphabetical order.
    There are no tabs on a printout. Well, I guess there could be, but I'd get all kinds of bug reports of people poking at a piece of paper and nothing happening.

    Player: I keep pressing the Cleric tab with my pen, but nothing is happening. The page won't update.
    Me: Update your pen drivers. There is a known bug with old pen drivers and white paper which could be the culprit.



    Many thanks for the character planner, it's a godsend. Will there be an update coming for the new enhancements? or even better, is there a version available now?
    You mean the new enhancement system coming down the pipeline? No not yet.
    I may have an update for the existing enhancements in the next release, not sure yet. There is some work going on in that area, but I'm not the one doing it. So we will just have to see how it goes.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

    DDO Character Planner (Version 04.25.03) (Preview Screenshot) - Now with Warlocky goodness!
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  14. #1434
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    Default Found a Bug

    I found a bug. I was building a Brd16/Ftr2/Rgr2 and at level 21 I took the Inspire Excellence feat. The program let me take the feat but then reported it as an error. The character fulfills all the prereqs: Bard 15 and Perform 20 ranks (the character is a 16th-level bard and has 23 ranks in Perform). I have posted the screen shot showing the error below as well as the forum export with all details. Interestingly enough, the error went away after I saved the file.



    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Bardcher 
    Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
    (2 Fighter \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 254
    Spell Points: 880 
    BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 21
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             10                 12                   12
    Dexterity            18                 21                   22
    Constitution         14                 16                   16
    Intelligence          8                 10                   10
    Wisdom                8                  8                    8
    Charisma             16                 23                   25
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               4                  6                    6
    Bluff                 6                 30                   30
    Concentration         6                 26                   32
    Diplomacy             3                  7                    7
    Disable Device       n/a                n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                7                 30                   34
    Heal                 -1                 -1                   -1
    Hide                  4                  6                    6
    Intimidate            3                  7                    7
    Jump                  0                  1                    1
    Listen               -1                 -1                   -1
    Move Silently         4                  6                    6
    Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Perform               7                 30                   31
    Repair               -1                  0                    0
    Search               -1                  0                    0
    Spot                 -1                 -1                   -1
    Swim                  0                  1                    1
    Tumble                5                  7                    7
    Use Magic Device      7                 30                   34
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+3)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Perform (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
    Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
    Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Keen Senses
    Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Mixed Heritage
    Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Social Graces (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
    Enhancement: Improved Haggle I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
    Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Precise Shot
    Feat: (Automatic) Archer's Focus
    Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
    Enhancement: Improved Perform I
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Skill: Perform (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity II
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Concentration (+3)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+3)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Manyshot
    Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+3)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
    Enhancement: Improved Haggle II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Improved Haggle III
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II
    Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante II
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Improved Haggle IV

  15. #1435
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Default

    Hmmmm. Okay, I'll take a look at it and see what is going on. Drat that validation function. It has been a pain in my side ever since I put it in, heh.

    Thanks for the report. I'll track it down.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

    DDO Character Planner (Version 04.25.03) (Preview Screenshot) - Now with Warlocky goodness!
    Let's Play DDO!! - My attempt to video document a FULL runthrough of DDO, completionist style (Currently working through level 3 quests)

  16. #1436
    Community Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    There are no tabs on a printout. Well, I guess there could be, but I'd get all kinds of bug reports of people poking at a piece of paper and nothing happening.
    Sorry I should have mentioned I meant tabs on the UI. In addition to clicking the individual tabs you could also region the whole "known spells" area and then cycle through the tabs each time the region is clicked from [ALL] to [WIZ] which gets round the problem of supporting people with tablets and dodgy lightpens.

    Printouts. You would need options on how they should be exported: single list, by class (individual list for each class), or no export. Then the app should export spells in the desired format.

    [ALL] *single list, just exports this*
    Bard Level 1:
    Bard Level 2:
    Bard Level 3:
    Ranger Level 1:
    Ranger Level 2:
    Wizard Level 1:
    etc.

    [BARD] * by class additionally exports these lists*
    Bard Level 1:
    Bard Level 2:
    Bard Level 3:
    etc.

    [CLERIC]
    Cleric Level 1:
    Cleric Level 2:
    Cleric Level 3:
    etc.

    [DRUID]
    etc.

    To be honest it isn't that important. In fact from a planning point of view it often makes better sense to only pick the spells you need for the build's spellcasting strategy so you can see things more clearly.

    Players are still going to need the planner after the new enhancements go in, at least certainly I will. Personally I'm very comfortable with the UI you built and would love to continue using it if that's at all possible.

  17. #1437
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Default

    The spell list UI will be the same as it always has been. I see no need to change it.

    I don't really want to inundate the player with a whole mess of printout options. As it is, it is already going to be much more complicated than it used to be. Giving them a bunch of checkboxes and radiobuttons would only complicate matters, and also make programming the printout that much more difficult and bug prone. Printing out a character sheet should NOT be that complicated

    [Long explanation of printouts coming. Skip if you want...]

    The thing to keep in mind with the printouts is there are now going to be two of them. The first is a character sheet, like you would have in PnP D&D. I'm calling this one a "snapshot" because it shows your character at some particular level of their life. It really doesn't have any information on how they got to that point. It is not meant to be used while you are standing at the trainer leveling up. But it should show you everything your character is capable of at that time, just like a PnP D&D character sheet would. It is densely packed with a lot of information, and is taking me quite a long time to program.

    The second one is the one you would use at the trainer. It will be pretty boring. If you consider the planner's forum output, there is a bit at the bottom that goes over, level by level, what the character did in terms of leveling up (e.g. took this many point in this skill, took these spells, raised this ability, etc). That format is pretty much exactly what the second printout will be. It will just be a list, at each level, of what you ought to do when you get to the trainer in order to build the same character in game that you built in the planner.

    The problem we had with the original printout was that it was a mix of the two, part snapshot, and part leveling guide. It was designed when the max level of this game was 10. And it was okay for a while. It wasn't ideal, but it worked. Then we kept raising the level limit, ultimately to 20, and then 25, and soon 28. And it stopped working at all. Skill lists were falling off the bottom of the page. Other lists were bleeding into each other. It just became a mess. And because it was a mix of those two printouts, it was never really ideal for either one to begin with.

    I put it off as long as I could, because I knew overhauling the printout system would be a long, complicated, difficult procedure. And I HATE programing output. Especially printer output. Every time I've done it, it has sucked. And this one is amongst the most complex outputs I've ever done. Fortunately, I'm nearly done (I only have four sections left to do for the snapshot [Feats, Enhancements, Epic Destinies, and Pets] and then I have to go back and work on that Defense section a bit). And then the level guide (which will be very simple, as I'm pretty much just going to transfer over the last part of the forum output over to printer output).

    And hopefully with that, it will be pretty future-proofed for a while, with only the occasional tweak needed here and there. I don't really know what is going to happen with the enhancements overhaul, but we can deal with that when we get there.
    The locus of my identity is totally exterior to me.
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

    DDO Character Planner (Version 04.25.03) (Preview Screenshot) - Now with Warlocky goodness!
    Let's Play DDO!! - My attempt to video document a FULL runthrough of DDO, completionist style (Currently working through level 3 quests)

  18. #1438
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Default Iconics

    Hey Ron!

    Sooooooo..... Has your planner been updated for Bladeforged and other iconics yet?

    Why not? Slacker!

    You really deserve a medal or something for what you do.

  19. #1439
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Default Spell List

    Hey, sorry this is probably too late, but on the spells I thought maybe the original section on the main page you wanted to use for spells could actually just list the number of spells per class/level while the second page could then list the chosen spells.

  20. #1440
    Community Member Philibusta's Avatar
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    Default Druid Enhancement Bug

    (Orignally posted in General DDO Discussion)

    Think I may have found a bug in the Planner:

    Druids are unable to take any of the Enhancements that buff Skills (Improved Concentration I, Improved Intimidation I, etc.)

    Under the descriptions of these enhancements, each one says "Requires at least one level in a class that possesses (Skill name) as a class skill."

    Druid Class skills are Diplomacy, Heal, Intimidate, Listen, Spot, and Swim. Yet I am unable to select the Enhancements that would Improve any one of these skills. (I know, at least 4 of these Skills are mostly, if not entirely useless in the game, but still, it'd be nice to be able to select the few that are useful).

    The Druid class isn't even listed on the "Requires one of" lists at the bottom of the descriptions, for any one of these enhancements.

    And I'm not positive which version of the Planner I do have, but I downloaded it about 3 weeks ago, so I think it's the latest version.

    I went to R&J Cyberware website, to see if there's a way to report a bug. Sure, there is. IF you happen to have a degree in programming and can understand the interface. Also, it wouldn't let me report anything at all until I registered. Which I did. Yeah.....still waiting for that confirmation email so I can activate the account.

    Now this ain't meant to be a rage post. You do excellent work on the Planner, and your work is greatly appreciated by me, and I assume by many other DDO players. It's just that when something is wrong with the application, I'd like to be able to let you know, so that you have a chance to fix it.
    All that is wrong with DDO, life, taxes, poltics, religion, music, fast food, education, the criminal justice system, the weather, society, the universe, and previously-discontinued-but-now-on-their-way-back snack cakes, is all the fault of Wizards of the Coast. I know this because Fred told me so, and Mind Flayers are smart.

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