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  1. #101
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cardmj1 View Post
    Stormreach could finally get a better supply of tasty ham and maybe if we are lucky... bacon!
    The most sensible thing I have read all day.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper View Post
    You're welcome. We all really do want to make as much quality content for you guys as we can, and we are constantly banging our heads together trying to figure out how to do it faster and better.
    Hi Keeper, I've thrown this out there a few times over the years, and I'm guessing it's not plausible, but for what it's worth here it is again:

    If you want mass amounts of content delivered quickly and cheaply, the best thing to do is to create a user-based dungeon generator. My on-line gaming experience started with text-based MUD's and the ones that really took off where the ones that let the players build dungeons. Also, I used to play Unreal Tournament online, which also came with a user-arena generator, which was immensely popular. Actually some of the best arenas in that game were the user created ones.

    You've got a vast resource pool of people who are dedicated to the game and who I know would build dungeons for free. A lot of the people who play here have been DM's in p&p games for years and years. So creating quests would be fun for them.

  3. #103
    Community Member dragons1ayer74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crschoen View Post
    Hi Keeper, I've thrown this out there a few times over the years, and I'm guessing it's not plausible, but for what it's worth here it is again:

    If you want mass amounts of content delivered quickly and cheaply, the best thing to do is to create a user-based dungeon generator. My on-line gaming experience started with text-based MUD's and the ones that really took off where the ones that let the players build dungeons. Also, I used to play Unreal Tournament online, which also came with a user-arena generator, which was immensely popular. Actually some of the best arenas in that game were the user created ones.

    You've got a vast resource pool of people who are dedicated to the game and who I know would build dungeons for free. A lot of the people who play here have been DM's in p&p games for years and years. So creating quests would be fun for them.

    Aye give the community tools and have the quests go to the preivew server where they would be user rated. A quest would need a certain rating before it could be reviewed by the live team to go into the game (this would mostly prevent abuse ie: no step into a quest and instantly get completion or such).

  4. #104
    Developer Keeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crschoen View Post
    If you want mass amounts of content delivered quickly and cheaply, the best thing to do is to create a user-based dungeon generator.
    User-generated content is, of course, something that has been discussed here again and again.

    Here’s the short version: UGC would neither be easy nor safe to implement. Here are two of the many reasons why: our tools are vastly and necessarily more complex than a casual user could ever find fun to use, and a certain percentage of the player base will always use such tools to make giant phalluses.

    Now I know you are all going to tell me how easy it is to work around these problems, so I will just go ahead and say in advance: it is easier to talk about cooking bacon than it is to actually cook bacon. I should know: my attempts at cooking bacon lead, at least 50% of the time, to the smoke alarm going off.

  5. #105
    Community Member spifflove's Avatar
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    Most people don't map because its not easy. But the ones who do do it very very well or at least would give you something to work with. I don't know how you would handle the problem of malicous ware but some mapmakers would become trusted over time.

    I myself would be happy with a secret rooftop path (or hidden market door) to the old harbor where I could open the old content on solo only and save aida's necklace once more

  6. #106
    Community Member dragons1ayer74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper View Post
    User-generated content is, of course, something that has been discussed here again and again.

    Here’s the short version: UGC would neither be easy nor safe to implement. Here are two of the many reasons why: our tools are vastly and necessarily more complex than a casual user could ever find fun to use, and a certain percentage of the player base will always use such tools to make giant phalluses.

    Now I know you are all going to tell me how easy it is to work around these problems, so I will just go ahead and say in advance: it is easier to talk about cooking bacon than it is to actually cook bacon. I should know: my attempts at cooking bacon lead, at least 50% of the time, to the smoke alarm going off.
    I do not think creating quests would be for the casual user nor would we want the DEV time spending a bunch of time teaching the tools, a community forum would likley work well. I think if you gave it to the community you would be suprised at how quickly people would figure them out. Policing would be a definate issue and the quest would need to go to the test server before it ever went live quests that got a good rating on the test server could then get reviewed by the live team and then accpted/modified or scratched.

  7. #107
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragons1ayer74 View Post
    I do not think creating quests would be for the casual user nor would we want the DEV time spending a bunch of time teaching the tools, a community forum would likley work well. I think if you gave it to the community you would be suprised at how quickly people would figure them out. Policing would be a definate issue and the quest would need to go to the test server before it ever went live quests that got a good rating on the test server could then get reviewed by the live team and then accpted/modified or scratched.
    The problem there now becomes resources again. You cannot PLAN for having useable user created content, so you need to keep the current team working, and you need to have people available to perform the tasks you mention above. One needs to create some sort of viable environment for users modules, then be able to work them.

    Most of the games with lots of user created content I played, also had a different model. Buy the game for $50. You own it. NWN for example. Then you could download (at your own risk) user created content and play it to your hearts content. I am not aware of any subscription model that employs user created content like quests or modules? If somehow they end up using a User created model that had some buried virus or trojan in it, who would be liable?

    The whole concept sounds great until you really start to look into the details of how you make it happen, and stay in business.
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  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenako View Post
    The problem there now becomes resources again. You cannot PLAN for having useable user created content, so you need to keep the current team working, and you need to have people available to perform the tasks you mention above. One needs to create some sort of viable environment for users modules, then be able to work them.

    Most of the games with lots of user created content I played, also had a different model. Buy the game for $50. You own it. NWN for example. Then you could download (at your own risk) user created content and play it to your hearts content. I am not aware of any subscription model that employs user created content like quests or modules? If somehow they end up using a User created model that had some buried virus or trojan in it, who would be liable?

    The whole concept sounds great until you really start to look into the details of how you make it happen, and stay in business.
    Yeah. Only reasonable plan I could see for allowing for user-created content without risk would be to have a location (forum, email address, or whatever) where users could submit their fully fleshed out ideas (map, encounters, named items, story, etc.), and have the devs pick from those when they need ideas (but still do all the actual coding on their end). It wouldn't make for much less work for the devs, but would avoid most of the headaches of letting other people muck about with their game.

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenako View Post
    The problem there now becomes resources again. You cannot PLAN for having useable user created content, so you need to keep the current team working, and you need to have people available to perform the tasks you mention above. One needs to create some sort of viable environment for users modules, then be able to work them.

    Most of the games with lots of user created content I played, also had a different model. Buy the game for $50. You own it. NWN for example. Then you could download (at your own risk) user created content and play it to your hearts content. I am not aware of any subscription model that employs user created content like quests or modules? If somehow they end up using a User created model that had some buried virus or trojan in it, who would be liable?

    The whole concept sounds great until you really start to look into the details of how you make it happen, and stay in business.

    City of Heroes just released the architect module which allows for user generated content. From what I have seen of it they had to build a tool that used pre defined maps, but allowed the creators to script out the action and place all the npc's, mobs etc. Theyare already having issues with it where people have been using them to power level and get badges(not sure what they do), and they are starting to go in and strip away these badges and xp. So whiel on the whole it is a success, it has created an avenue for exploitation which has had to be dealt with.

    In the case of NWN, the tools were built from the beginning to be more user friendly than traditional dev tools, which was part of the overall game design philosphy for NWN. This was not done for DDO, so the effort would be large and costly to redesign the tools to be in a form that it could be useable to the general public
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  10. #110
    Community Member Naash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper View Post
    User-generated content is, of course, something that has been discussed here again and again.

    Here’s the short version: UGC would neither be easy nor safe to implement. Here are two of the many reasons why: our tools are vastly and necessarily more complex than a casual user could ever find fun to use, and a certain percentage of the player base will always use such tools to make giant phalluses.

    Now I know you are all going to tell me how easy it is to work around these problems, so I will just go ahead and say in advance: it is easier to talk about cooking bacon than it is to actually cook bacon. I should know: my attempts at cooking bacon lead, at least 50% of the time, to the smoke alarm going off.

    How about getting together with Tolero and either coming up with a contest or a special sub-forum for user submitted quests?
    It really wouldnt have to be hugely complicated,a graph paper template(like the good ol' days)and a way of adding little mapnotes and a brief description.The winner would be able to embellish his ideas directly to the dev's.

    This way I can submit my adventure in the forest of giant breasts and leave the artwork to the professionals....
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  11. #111
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    As I said above, the BEST way to allow people to add content , would simply be for people to populate already constructed dungeons (different version of old instances) . i.e. you DO NOT allow them to create the area itself, just put stuff down

    Stuff you can put down.

    Code:
    1) Creatures (x,y,z,angle)
         > Define starting behaviour (asleep, hiding, talking to another, patrolling from loc X to Loc Y)
         > Define affiliation of monster for factional behaviour.
    2) Chests (x,y,z,angle)
          >Locked or not, and what open lock skill is needed if locked
    3) Boss creature with appearing chest attached. (x,y,z,angle x2)
        > Define the bosses feats/spells.
    4) Put a quest item on the ground or monster (x,y,z)
    5) Turn on/off traps and set spot/search and disarm on the linked trap box. (pre-set trap locations)
    6) Put down a Breakable.  (x,y,z)
             > Define breakable's hitpoints
    7) Define quest parameters
         > Get to location X   (x,y,z, radius)
         > Kill Boss Y
         > Kill Q creatures of type R
         > Get L quest items of type K
       Quest parameters can turn on other ones when they are completed, they can give E experience for completion.
       Quest parameters can be MUST do or optional.
    Base Chests are defined by the level of the mission, locked chests are +1 loot, boss chests are +2 loot.



    Thats probably a SERIOUS simplification, but thats the sort of thing that would satisfy some, they'd need to be tested so somebody doesn't simply make an empty module full of locked chests, or boss chests with easy bosses.


    For me, that would be the easiest way to do it, theres no phalluses being designed there because players cant define the adventure space.. only what's inside it.
    Last edited by rustbucky; 05-29-2009 at 08:44 AM.

  12. #112
    Founder Eelpout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper View Post
    Here’s the short version: UGC would neither be easy nor safe to implement. Here are two of the many reasons why: a certain percentage of the player base will always use such tools to make giant phalluses.
    Terribly funny. I would have never thought of that, but now that you point it out, I can see people doing it.


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  13. #113
    Dragonmark of Making Kalanth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper View Post
    User-generated content is, of course, something that has been discussed here again and again.

    Here’s the short version: UGC would neither be easy nor safe to implement. Here are two of the many reasons why: our tools are vastly and necessarily more complex than a casual user could ever find fun to use, and a certain percentage of the player base will always use such tools to make giant phalluses.

    Now I know you are all going to tell me how easy it is to work around these problems, so I will just go ahead and say in advance: it is easier to talk about cooking bacon than it is to actually cook bacon. I should know: my attempts at cooking bacon lead, at least 50% of the time, to the smoke alarm going off.
    Why not develop something like what CoH / CoV did with an external product designed to allow players to generate content. Make some form of EULA to go with that product that reserves the rights to approve and modify the submitted content. Then reserve one or two persons to simple screen the ones that are submitted for phalluses and other issues, as well as ensure the quests works properly and go from there. A symbiotic relationship between players and Turbine would make it easier, to some extent.

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