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  1. #41
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    In a perfect world there would be enough content that you only ever need run everything once, never needing to run them again at a different difficulty level. Never need to farm or repeat anything and still be finding new stuff after 3 years but that just cant be the case.
    There isn't infinite content, it isn't generated. How much fun would it be if it was?

    Seeing as though repetition IS part of the game though, some variance in the quests themselves between runs, monster locations, trap box locations, types or even the spell lists of casters so that there's more unpredictability in them might go a long way to making the repetitions a little less taxing. Then there might not be such a pressing need for new content, people would be more content with what there was if there was more enjoyment in it.

  2. #42

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    It would be nice to have different starting areas, with different story arcs. There are a few problems with implementing such a thing, however, and they would need to be solved before it would be a good idea.

    For one thing, currently new players start in Korthos, and commonly seem to have the impression that "the game is deserted". I'm afraid splitting them up further into different starting areas would only exacerbate this problem. To implement multiple starting areas without making things worse for new players trying to find the "community", it might well be necessary to put everyone in one place by default, and amake people choos specifically if they want to go to a different area instead. This would kind of mess with the idea of race- or class-specific starter areas.

    As for endgame content being more important that low-level stuff....we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. There are players who've been playing 3 years and never touched a raid, or any quest over 13th level. Different players have different preferences from a game, and adding more for one group doesn't necessarily detract from the rest (at least, I try not to complain about the various mods...at least half of them, it seems...that have added nothing I had any interest in - just raids, high level quests/explorer areas and the like)

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    It would be nice to have different starting areas, with different story arcs.
    Why do you think so?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    For one thing, currently new players start in Korthos, and commonly seem to have the impression that "the game is deserted". I'm afraid splitting them up further into different starting areas would only exacerbate this problem.
    It would particularly disrupt it whenever a group of friends want to create characters at the same time and immediately begin playing together, as they almost certainly won't all pick the same class.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    As for endgame content being more important that low-level stuff....we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. There are players who've been playing 3 years and never touched a raid, or any quest over 13th level. Different players have different preferences from a game
    Those players who have no yet visited all the game's content do not need more, because they already have more if they simply decide to walk over and go there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    that have added nothing I had any interest in - just raids, high level quests/explorer areas and the like)
    Why do you say a high-level quest is less interesting than low-level? What's all that different about them, aside from the fact that all characters can eventually play high-level quests, but some are essentially locked-out from experiencing low-level content?

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    Why do you say a high-level quest is less interesting than low-level? What's all that different about them, aside from the fact that all characters can eventually play high-level quests, but some are essentially locked-out from experiencing low-level content?
    Different people like different things. Some like raids & "endgame" content, some don't. Some just leave and move on to a different game when there's nothing left but "endgame" content that doesn't interest them.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    Different people like different things.
    What is noticeably different about Enter The Kobold compared to Grey Moon Waning that makes you not like it?

  6. #46
    Community Member Fluffy_the_Goth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    Why do you say a high-level quest is less interesting than low-level? What's all that different about them, aside from the fact that all characters can eventually play high-level quests, but some are essentially locked-out from experiencing low-level content?
    Double quoted with the above post for fun!

    I say the difference is low level doesn't give you any challenge at all maybe? Not that there are any real challenges in this game left anymore but when ever they release mod 13 we may feel challenged. And that's what we want, not a brisk walk in the park of bashing a skelly for 6 damage and it dies.

  7. #47
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizzly Bear View Post
    hazz...you can either accept what us old bags here are saying or not. personally ive been here for over 2 years, and have played with a multitude of different people. i can tell you definitively that there is too much low-level content as is, not enough mid-level, and not nearly enough high level content. most quests dont get used by the majority of the population, or if they do its for favor once theyre already capped.

    to demonstrate this to yourself...make a new character. run every quest on elite starting with the level 1s, then 2s, etc. you will find yourself quickly outlevelling the content bc there is too much of it relative to your level and xp required to level. eventually (~ lvl 8 iirc) you will even out, and then fall rapidly behind the level of the quests. iirc, this method will yield you doing level 19 quests (lvl 17 +2 (elite)) and only being level 13 or 14.
    I agree with Hazzazz, content is content. The more of it and the more variety is always a good thing at any level. I disagree that there is too much low level content that is simply not true. I will agree that more mid-level and hi-level content is needed but this game just needs more content period.

    Other posts opposing the OP seem to think they have the inside track on the pulse of the population. Well I have been playing for over 3 years now and everytime I roll a new character I run every single quest in Korthos, Harbor and Marketplace. I am not a zerger and enjoy the game for the questing not the leveling and loot although that comes with the questing which is good.

    Devs please spend more time on content and atmosphere to the game at all levels. Its the zergers that skip everything just for the larger XP runs and get to maximum level in 2 to 3 weeks and then complain there isn't enough content, why because they skipped all of the content.
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  8. #48
    Community Member Fluffy_the_Goth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post

    Devs please spend more time on content and atmosphere to the game at all levels. Its the zergers that skip everything just for the larger XP runs and get to maximum level in 2 to 3 weeks and then complain there isn't enough content, why because they skipped all of the content.[/COLOR]
    I'm one of those zergers that skips everything, but then I go back for favor, 6 out of 11 toons have close to every quest completed to elite.

    Plus they already said they were doing something else to TBC somewhere too, if Korthos wasn't a big enough bump to your lowbie content. (Korthos/Harbor quests) and you need more things to go from level 1-2 from.. I dunno I guess we're at a crossroads, I prefer to actually have a character, not a level 1 with 18 ac a +6 to hit and 28 hp.

  9. #49
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy the Goth View Post
    I say the difference is low level doesn't give you any challenge at all maybe? Not that there are any real challenges in this game left anymore but when ever they release mod 13 we may feel challenged. And that's what we want, not a brisk walk in the park of bashing a skelly for 6 damage and it dies.
    Ah Goth, you have hit the nail on the head. The way the game is setup now is exactly what the larger population wants. Walk/run through quests, kill everything in one or two swings, uber loot, uber leveling. They say they want challenge but they demand vorpals, disruptors, smiters, banishers or super uber radiance or mineral weapons from The Shroud. These are the things that make the game boring just think about it when was the last time any quest at any level was really a challenge. I almost feel sorry for the monsters, drow or any other fow we face. Seriously we walk into a dungeon paralyze them, hold them, command them one shot kill them. What kind of a challenge is this?

    We all said we wanted the super +5 kill what ever I want weapons and the prevent me from having any damage at all items. Well you have them and look where we are. This is the world of Eberron the world most of you preferred.

    This does not mean that a world in Forgotten Realms (FR) would have been much better if at all. But the nature of FR is not to even have these super uber weapons available to get. Acquiring a +1 or +2 longsword without anything attached to it is considered gold in FR (AD&D version). Why is that, because it was always about the quest I know when I played pen and paper not any of the folks I played with ever really cared about the loot we took. Memories.........
    Last edited by shores11; 05-26-2009 at 08:13 AM.
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  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    What is noticeably different about Enter The Kobold compared to Grey Moon Waning that makes you not like it?
    Enter the Kobold requires a character over 10th level, Gray moon Waning does not. I (and most of the other D&D players I've spent time with) happen to enjoy the way D&D plays with mid-level characters. The great variety of character design choices in this game allow a single player to have an enjoyable experience with many different characters if they so choose. The sameness of the starter quests, on the other hand, gets dull after a while. Having more paths to take while leveling characters up would be more fun for me than having more raids I don't run. If there were enough low-mid-level content for a player to level up, say, 3 different characters to level 10, running completely differnt quests on each one, and never repeating a quest (all quests on Normal setting), that would probably be enough. After that, the devs could focus on "endgame" till the high level players are completely satiated before making any more low-mid-level stuff. But until then, I, and probably others like me, will keep wanting more low/mid-level content, at least alongside the high level stuff, if not necessarily in lieu of it.
    Last edited by Arianrhod; 05-26-2009 at 08:16 AM.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    I agree with Hazzazz, content is content.
    Incorrect.

    As a way to prove it's incorrect, look at the consequences of that claim and see if they hold out in reality. If "content is content", that would mean that Enemy Within is about as good as Relic of a Sovereign Past, or Rackham's Trial is about as good as Crucible.

    But a little experience with the game after the introduction of each of those bits of content will show that some content simply provides a lot more (and more entertaining) gameplay than others. That should have been obvious, because it's natural that in a complex system different things wouldn't turn out to all be just as good as each other.

    Having established that not all content is equally good, you can then ask whether low or high level content is generally better for the game. Start by answering these questions:
    1. Can characters go up in level? Can they go down? Even temporarily?
    2. Is it fun to delete favorite characters you've played for a while?
    3. Is it fun to get new cool stuff?
    4. What happens when items from high-level characters pass to lowbies?
    5. Is it more fun to play a quest at the intended level, or below it, or above it? What about way above it?
    6. As characters get higher level, does advancing each level go faster? Or slower?
    7. What are the top several quests that characters have repeated the greatest number of times? How many times does any single character repeat a quest in the 1-5 range?

    After collecting those facts, the conclusion should be apparent.

  12. #52
    Community Member Kerrn_Siff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesop View Post
    I also would perfer a CHOICE of starting locations instead of being forced there by race/class choices.
    I'd take it a few steps further: What I would love would be in return for a favor level, say 2500 or something, the ability to Easy Button to level 5 upon creation XP wise. We reroll soooo freaking much in this game even if they trippled the lowbie content we would still be just as sick and tired of it in a few weeks as we are now. (WW1-4.. again.. on elite?.. *sigh* sure I have 40 minutes *twitch* brt..*cry*)

    The ability to just skip a portion of lower content for senior players would alleviate some of the boredom and whining we are all subject to while still allowing new players to 'smell the roses' while casting their MMs at the umpteenth kobold or practicing their wiffs while using a GA they don't have the skills to use.

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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    We all said we wanted the super +5 kill what ever I want weapons and the prevent me from having any damage at all items. Well you have them and look where we are. This is the world of Eberron the world most of you preferred.

    This does not mean that a world in Forgotten Realms (FR) would have been much better if at all. But the nature of FR is not to even have these super uber weapons available to get. Acquiring a +1 or +2 longsword without anything attached to it is considered gold in FR (AD&D version).
    That is exactly backwards. Acquiring high-powered magic items is enormously easier in FR than in Eberron.

    How many spellcasters of level 19+ can you name from Faerun? How many from Eberron?

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    That is exactly backwards. Acquiring high-powered magic items is enormously easier in FR than in Eberron.

    How many spellcasters of level 19+ can you name from Faerun? How many from Eberron?
    Gotta agree with this - Eberron is supposed to have a lot of low-level magic; magic toothbrushes and quills of copying in triplicate. Not high level stuff like +5 vorpal greataxes.

  15. #55
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    That is exactly backwards. Acquiring high-powered magic items is enormously easier in FR than in Eberron.

    How many spellcasters of level 19+ can you name from Faerun? How many from Eberron?
    If your going to quote something like you know what your talking about then know what your talking about. My post had ZERO to do with leveling as we all know that Eberron will eventually get to level 20 and when that happens there will be plenty of level 19+ casters. Wow, way to take the message off track.

    I was referring to uber loot only and if you would have read my post then you would have known that. So it is you that are not only backwards but sideways too.
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  16. #56
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    Gotta agree with this - Eberron is supposed to have a lot of low-level magic; magic toothbrushes and quills of copying in triplicate. Not high level stuff like +5 vorpal greataxes.
    Agreed, suppose to have but it does not, it is all about uber loot in DDO.
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    If your going to quote something like you know what your talking about then know what your talking about. My post had ZERO to do with leveling
    Where do you think magic items come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    I was referring to uber loot only and if you would have read my post then you would have known that. So it is you that are not only backwards but sideways too.
    Nope. I'm right, and you are completely wrong. The Forgotten Realms setting has tons of magic fortresses and mythals and Thayan spellcircles and dracolich hordes that are bursting with powerful items... just look at the character sheets of the example NPCs. Look at people like Zsas Tam or Elminster or straight-up Mystara.

    Deities walk the surface of Faerun as a matter of course- and not just cultist demigods, but the physical embodiment of laws of nature. The wizards there can travel across the planes into Outsider civilizations and even other prime-plane worlds, including both Greyhawk and a version of our own planet Earth (from which some FR realms were supposedly transplanted)

    None of that happens in Eberron. The campaign world doesn't even include one arcane caster of 19th level. In the event a PC reaches that point, he will be the most powerful mage the land has known in a century.

    It's just not a setting which includes a source of mega-destructo magic items.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrn Siff View Post
    I'd take it a few steps further: What I would love would be in return for a favor level, say 2500 or something, the ability to Easy Button to level 5 upon creation XP wise.
    That was suggested in another active thread, as a way to prevent speed-hungry power-levellers from getting into the same groups as people who haven't done the quest much yet. If they clearly want to skip ahead over the easiest part, why not let them?

  19. #59
    Community Member Kerrn_Siff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    That was suggested in another active thread, as a way to prevent speed-hungry power-levellers from getting into the same groups as people who haven't done the quest much yet. If they clearly want to skip ahead over the easiest part, why not let them?
    damn, and here I thought I had an original idea that could contribute to the thread.

    ah well, carry on.

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  20. #60
    Community Member Murgatroyd's Avatar
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    Default There is plenty of low level content

    I rerolled a new character a few weeks ago and decided to slowly level him. My experiment was to do as much of the harbor as I could before I moved on.

    Doing all of Korthos and the Harbor on N/H/E (minus kobold assault and Cerulean hills) got me to lvl 5.
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