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  1. #1
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Default So am I the only one who uses Charm?

    I'm surprised there aren't any posts about the Charm spell change...

    I'm sad that charmed mobs won't follow us anymore (only dominated mobs).

    And my bard so enjoyed being followed by armies of charmed mobs...

  2. #2
    Community Member Laith's Avatar
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    sure, it's a nerf, but charm has always been a bit too powerful for my tastes and there was never a reason to use dominate.

    Another issue is that with Dismiss Charm, the only reason NOT to just charm everything possible was removed.

  3. #3
    Community Member Lorien_the_First_One's Avatar
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    I agree, this is a sad day for the charm spell, and for Bards in particular. I know that bards have a music alternative but lets be honest, most groups barely give you time to facinate, I've never seen a group let you facinate and suggest.

  4. #4
    Community Member Darth_Sizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I'm sad that charmed mobs won't follow us anymore (only dominated mobs).
    What makes you think dominated mobs will behave differently than charmed mobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laith View Post
    Another issue is that with Dismiss Charm, the only reason NOT to just charm everything possible was removed.
    How is this an issue? Players have been asking for this for some time now (and really, it makes perfect sense.)

  5. #5
    Community Member thatguy's Avatar
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    It never hurts to be a bit for a charmer, got me out of trouble more times then I can count.
    Quote Originally Posted by DelScorcho View Post
    The loot gods are jerks.
    Coming Soon!

    Bring back the WDA!

  6. #6

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    My general charm strategy for quite a while was gather crowd, symbol of persuasion, crowd is charmed. Ultimately, it changes little for me.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Laith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Sizzle View Post
    How is this an issue? Players have been asking for this for some time now (and really, it makes perfect sense.)
    i LOVE the addition of the ability, but the inability to dismiss charms was the primary reason charming fell out of favor for many players in the first place.

    With dismissal made easy, charm suddenly loses its primary drawback (dependant on the cooldown of the Dismiss Charm ability). Just saying it makes it easier to use charm spells without consequence is all.

  8. #8
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Sizzle View Post
    What makes you think dominated mobs will behave differently than charmed mobs?
    From the Compendium update w/ the release notes (link):
    • Dominated creatures now appear with blue spell effects, and will follow their master through dungeons. Charmed monsters now tend to remain in the room which they were charmed in.
    Exit, pursued by a bear. ~ William Shakespeare (stage direction from The Winter's Tale)

    .58964.

  9. #9
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I'm surprised there aren't any posts about the Charm spell change...

    I'm sad that charmed mobs won't follow us anymore (only dominated mobs).

    And my bard so enjoyed being followed by armies of charmed mobs...
    Holy F***!!! batman... I'm gonna have to read that again... if charmed mobs no longer follow us I'm going to be ****ed! That will make 3 dead characters due to mod 9 (of the six I still play.)

    Found it... and I hate it... I was so excited that we got mass charm monster that we should have had 2 mods ago that I did not noticed they nerfed the hell out of it.

    Why?????

    Any why am I still putting up with it...
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him. -- Krimsonrane

  10. #10
    Community Member Darth_Sizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    From the Compendium update w/ the release notes (link):
    • Dominated creatures now appear with blue spell effects, and will follow their master through dungeons. Charmed monsters now tend to remain in the room which they were charmed in.
    Oh, cool, right on then.

  11. #11
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrCow View Post
    My general charm strategy for quite a while was gather crowd, symbol of persuasion, crowd is charmed. Ultimately, it changes little for me.
    But if they will not follow you, what are you going to do?
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him. -- Krimsonrane

  12. #12
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I'm surprised there aren't any posts about the Charm spell change...

    I'm sad that charmed mobs won't follow us anymore (only dominated mobs).

    And my bard so enjoyed being followed by armies of charmed mobs...
    I use Suggestion, but carefully and with a specific goal... not to convert the entire instance to a cult in my honor

    1. Even the odds: Convert a few of them to my side. United they stand, divided they fall. None leave the room alive.

    2. Diversion: When zerging through a quest, a charmed minion can keep the aggro in the room I just left as long as they want (or can).

    3. Turn the tables: My annoyance with Air Elementals is mitigated by having them on my side from time to time... however, I don't mind them staying in the room once everything is dead. By the time the spell wears off, I'll be far far away.

    I'm waiting to see how this will effect the game, but I doubt it will change my play style.


    Quote Originally Posted by Laith View Post
    sure, it's a nerf, but charm has always been a bit too powerful for my tastes and there was never a reason to use dominate.

    Another issue is that with Dismiss Charm, the only reason NOT to just charm everything possible was removed.
    How can something be too powerful for your taste?

    I keep Dispel Magic loaded to remove my minion's hats... not sure if I'd give up AP for a 3rd level spell.
    "I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities" - Vaarsuvius, OoTS #674

  13. #13
    Community Member Fennario's Avatar
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    I kind of like it actually.

    - mass charm room full of mobs

    - dismiss mobs from charm one at a time

    - watch/help other mobs kill it

    - repeat

    -OR-

    - mass charm room full of mobs

    - leave room

  14. #14
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Sizzle View Post
    What makes you think dominated mobs will behave differently than charmed mobs?

    From the Release Notes:

    Dominated creatures now appear with blue spell effects, and will follow their master through dungeons. Charmed monsters now tend to remain in the room which they were charmed in.


    Bards don't get Dominate Monster (Should this be added as a 6th level bard spell?)

    How does Suggestion work? I've never understood the difference between Suggestion and Charm. Is it just the duration? (Suggestion has a fixed duration, Charm requires a save?)

  15. #15
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    My only question about Dismiss Charm is: Will it be selective (highlight charmed monster - hit Dismiss Charm for that monster alone)... or will Dismiss Charm blank all active Charms your caster has at that moment?

    If I missed that answer, please let me know. But, it's something I've been curious about since reading we are getting the ability to voluntarily cancel our own charms.
    Exit, pursued by a bear. ~ William Shakespeare (stage direction from The Winter's Tale)

    .58964.

  16. #16
    Community Member Laith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phidius View Post
    How can something be too powerful for your taste?
    A lot of it has to do with the fact that DDO charm & suggestion spells are grossly more powerful than in D&D, in that they actually give you minions (ala a Dominate spell).

    Other points include: charmed creatures have unlimited SP and can easily be used to exploit* monster AI (including aggro and pathing).

    *not calling charm an exploit, but you can use it to abuse issues to greater effect with charms (and CCs).
    Last edited by Laith; 04-08-2009 at 12:22 PM.

  17. #17
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    OF some interest will be how far a charmed monster will roam in an explorer area and still be "in its room"? I know I would often charm some of the Air Elementals in the Vale to punish the random mobs in the area for example.
    Sarlona - The Ko Brotherhood :Jareko-Elf Ranger12Rogue8+4E; Hennako-Human Cleric22; Rukio-Human Paladin18; Taellya-Halfling Rogue16; Zenako-Dwarf Fighter10Cleric1; Daniko-Drow Bard20; Kerriganko-Human Cleric18; Buket-WF Fighter6; Xenophilia-Human Wiz20; Zenakotwo-Dwarf Cleric16; Yadnomko-Halfling Ftr12; Gabiko-Human Bard15; lots more

  18. #18
    Community Member Laith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phidius View Post
    I keep Dispel Magic loaded to remove my minion's hats... not sure if I'd give up AP for a 3rd level spell.
    Dismiss Charm is listed under the "feats" section, along with all the other feats that classes will be getting for free.

  19. #19
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    How does Suggestion work? I've never understood the difference between Suggestion and Charm. Is it just the duration? (Suggestion has a fixed duration, Charm requires a save?)
    Both require a save. However, Suggestion just has the initial save, while Charm has continual saves.

    I use Suggestion because I prefer to know how long I can depend on my minion... not a big fan of surprises.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laith View Post
    A lot of it has to do with the fact that DDO charm & suggestion spells are grossly more powerful than in D&D, in that they actually give you minions (ala a Dominate spell).

    Other points include: charmed creatures have unlimited SP and can easily be used to exploit monster AI and pathing (not calling charm an exploit, but you can use it to abuse issues to greater effect with charms).
    I suppose... I found it powerful because it took out at least 2 monsters with one spell. The one that got charmed, and the one that it aggroed on.

    To be honest, I never paid much attention to monster AI beyond that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenako View Post
    OF some interest will be how far a charmed monster will roam in an explorer area and still be "in its room"? I know I would often charm some of the Air Elementals in the Vale to punish the random mobs in the area for example.
    Aye, inquiring minds want to know! I'm betting that the "room" they are charmed in is not going to be defined the same way we define a room...
    "I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities" - Vaarsuvius, OoTS #674

  20. #20
    Community Member Thelmallen's Avatar
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    Your post is exactly what I concluded my casters would do in light of this change. I would agree, however, that charm and suggestion were relatively over powered for their spell levels. With my new WF wiz/rog, charm person is essentially a temporary finger of death as it totally takes them out of the fight for a duration; actually better than that as they fight FOR you.

    On the whole, I like this change, actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fennario View Post
    I kind of like it actually.

    - mass charm room full of mobs

    - dismiss mobs from charm one at a time

    - watch/help other mobs kill it

    - repeat

    -OR-

    - mass charm room full of mobs

    - leave room
    -=Quantum Entropy - Sarlona Server=-
    Thelmallen [monk paladin] - Bladetuner [warchanter] - Stratonike [exploiter] - Bladeturner [cleric] - Sulien [wizard] - Bladeoffreya [FvS monk]

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