Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 51
  1. #1
    Community Member Erekose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,181

    Post Eladrin...PrE where is the rest of them???

    I may be mistaken, I was under the assumption that each class was going to get 3. If this is correct where is the rest of these PrE for us to preview.

    I say this because peeps are investing resources into re-crafting weapons for the shroud based on becoming a FB Barbarian. If there are 3 PrE per class, then I would like to see all three prior to committing resources in any direction.

    Thank you

    Erek
    Booted from - ChaosKnights
    Juslim 15 lives Mechamystic 16 lives Babooshka 11 lives Vivisector 3 lives Erekose 3 lives Dies 1 life

  2. #2
    Founder Spisey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    the HIVE
    Posts
    3,894

    Default

    Sadly they said it will be over several mods. God knows they've taken their time with this mod. I say it takes them at least a year to get them all out.

    Don't think I'm not with you just pessimistic. I think they should at least construct the enhancement feat lines and give us something to build toward even if they stay on the back burner.


    I still want to know if I can make a wf juggernaut pale master battlewizzy!
    Last edited by Spisey; 04-04-2009 at 09:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asialee View Post
    Spisey, you are a epic item no one can match your skillzs :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I think a full group of level 20s butt naked riding zebras should be able to beat part 1 even if the only portal DPS is said zebras kicking the portals with their hind legs as us Wisconsinites try to tip them over sideways and laugh about it afterward.

  3. #3
    Community Member hydra_ex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    3,009

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Balzuru View Post
    Sadly they said it will be over several mods. God knows they've taken their time with this mod. I say it takes them at least a year to get them all out.

    Don't think I'm not with you just pessimistic. I think they should at least construct the enhancement feat lines and give us something to build toward even if they stay on the back burner.


    I still want to know if I can make a wf juggernaut pale master battlewizzy!
    Yep, Balzuru is right.

    Also, Eladrin is not obliged to give us sneak-peaks, so, we should be thankful for what we have.
    THELANIS - Chief Scientist of DARPA
    Ravinex: Bard 18/Fighter 2 - Krotus: 20 Fighter - Hemium: Ranger 18/Fighter 2 - Stema: Favoured Soul 11 - Hemios: Ranger 15/Fighter 1/Monk 1

  4. #4
    Founder Spisey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    the HIVE
    Posts
    3,894

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hydra_ex View Post
    Yep, Balzuru is right.

    Also, Eladrin is not obliged to give us sneak-peaks, so, we should be thankful for what we have.

    Don't get me wrong! I am happy to know that I am still excited 3 years later and still thirsty for more DDO!
    Quote Originally Posted by Asialee View Post
    Spisey, you are a epic item no one can match your skillzs :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I think a full group of level 20s butt naked riding zebras should be able to beat part 1 even if the only portal DPS is said zebras kicking the portals with their hind legs as us Wisconsinites try to tip them over sideways and laugh about it afterward.

  5. #5
    Community Member Erekose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,181

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hydra_ex View Post
    Yep, Balzuru is right.

    Also, Eladrin is not obliged to give us sneak-peaks, so, we should be thankful for what we have.
    I understand he isn't obliged. However why tell us 3 for each class and only give us 1. Suggestion may have been better to only release 1 and say only 1 is soon to be released.

    <shrugs> its all about managing expectations.
    Booted from - ChaosKnights
    Juslim 15 lives Mechamystic 16 lives Babooshka 11 lives Vivisector 3 lives Erekose 3 lives Dies 1 life

  6. #6
    Community Member esoitl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Balzuru View Post
    Sadly they said it will be over several mods. God knows they've taken their time with this mod. I say it takes them at least a year to get them all out.

    Don't think I'm not with you just pessimistic. I think they should at least construct the enhancement feat lines and give us something to build toward even if they stay on the back burner.


    I still want to know if I can make a wf juggernaut pale master battlewizzy!
    By the looks of it, yes you will be able to. Just the same as you can make an Elven Warchanter/Arcane Archer. When you look at the history they have released a class per MOD for the PrEs. This time we actually get two classes in Fighter and Paladin and since they wanted to scrap the Critical Rage going forward they've added the Frenzied Berserker to replace it. I assume we'll see the other two Barbarian and maybe another class of PrEs coming in MOD 10.

    It'd be kind of a lame preview to have them shown now and not appear for 3-4 months down the road. If they even have them developed for DDO that'd be surprising to me honestly.
    In order to get a feel of what they are though, you can always check out a search for D&D prestige classes. Mostly they follow them close enough although with changes adapting them to the DDO environment. I know it won't give you the enhancement pre-reqs but you can loosely get a concept of the feats required and at the worst you can always get a few dragon shards and swap out how you need.

  7. #7
    WikiGnome
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Québec City, Canada
    Posts
    24,864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Erekose View Post
    <shrugs> its all about managing expectations.
    It's all about giving us things to look up to.
    Quote Originally Posted by esoitl View Post
    By the looks of it, yes you will be able to. Just the same as you can make an Elven Warchanter/Arcane Archer.
    I suspect they will have to revise this idea, as it leads to stupid design.

    WF avoiding barbarian, dwarves avoiding being fighter, elves avoiding being ranger, etc. Not to mention it will create severe race imbalances...
    DDOwiki.com, #1 source for DDO information.

  8. #8
    Community Member esoitl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    I suspect they will have to revise this idea, as it leads to stupid design.

    WF avoiding barbarian, dwarves avoiding being fighter, elves avoiding being ranger, etc. Not to mention it will create severe race imbalances...
    I'm not saying it's a good idea, but that seems like how they have been planning it. Although they may be rethinking as if you look at the Stalwart Defender PrE I believe there is some sort of Fighter enhancement pre-req in there(Fighter Armour Boost I think it was).

  9. #9
    WikiGnome
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Québec City, Canada
    Posts
    24,864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by esoitl View Post
    I'm not saying it's a good idea, but that seems like how they have been planning it.
    Well, they already expressed their hesitation with Defender and I would not be surprised if they revisit the system to be more balanced.

    Restricting the number of PrE rank to a "[character level]/3" sounds liek the best alternative I can find.
    DDOwiki.com, #1 source for DDO information.

  10. #10
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    17,552

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    I suspect they will have to revise this idea, as it leads to stupid design.
    Yes, although it's not a bad design as it currently exists in game, because it only applies to Arcane Archer. Ranged being a hopelessly weak combat style, Arcane Archer is thus a weak specialty, and nearly irrelevant (except as a red herring, which punishes players who don't understand the system).

    The real reason Elf Arcane Archer had to count as a Ranger specialty was to prevent someone from taking AA and Deepwood Sniper at the same time, since they have nearly identical lists of prereqs. If it were allowed to be AA and Tempest at once, that wouldn't be a problem.

    Likewise, if Stalwart Defender was allowed as a Dwarf specialty, the only thing they'd have to avoid is a paladin learning both SD and Defender of Syberis, because once-again the prereqs heavily overlap.

    So what they can do is readjust the racial specialties to only conflict with a specific list of named specialties, instead of all the specialties granted by a certain class. That breaks parsimony, but gives a better result.

  11. #11
    WikiGnome
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Québec City, Canada
    Posts
    24,864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    The real reason Elf Arcane Archer had to count as a Ranger specialty was to prevent someone from taking AA and Deepwood Sniper at the same time, since they have nearly identical lists of prereqs. If it were allowed to be AA and Tempest at once, that wouldn't be a problem.
    Wouldn't part of that problem be solved by giving them different prereqs so that taking both is more expensive?
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    So what they can do is readjust the racial specialties to only conflict with a specific list of named specialties, instead of all the specialties granted by a certain class.
    That does not solve all problem. With that design, there is very little reason to play a non-dwarf AC spec'd paladin. The dwarf version gets access to both Stalwart Defender and KotC or HotD whereas other races will be offered something significantly weaker (with the possible exception of WF).
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    So what they can do is readjust the racial specialties to only conflict with a specific list of named specialties, instead of all the specialties granted by a certain class.
    Perhaps I don't understand what you are saying but if AA conflicts with DS, then shouldn't elves still be more attracted to fighter (for both Kensai and AA)?
    Last edited by Borror0; 04-05-2009 at 05:08 AM.
    DDOwiki.com, #1 source for DDO information.

  12. #12
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    17,552

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Wouldn't part of that problem be solved by giving them different prereqs so that taking both is more expensive?
    That could solve it, except that there is no evident way to create different prereqs. There just aren't enough archery-oriented feats that could be split up in a plausible way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    That does not solve all problem. With that design, there is very little reason to play a non-dwarf AC spec'd paladin.
    Thanks to Armor Master III, that's true anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    The dwarf version gets access to both Stalwart Defender and KotC or HotD
    That's kinda the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Perhaps I don't understand what you are saying but if AA conflicts with DS, then shouldn't elves still be more attracted to fighter (for both Kensai and AA)?
    Kensai + AA is inferior to Kensai + Ranger Capstone.

  13. #13
    WikiGnome
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Québec City, Canada
    Posts
    24,864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    Thanks to Armor Master III, that's true anyway.
    True but that is somethnig can be solved. This will make the problem much harder to solve
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    Kensai + AA is inferior to Kensai + Ranger Capstone.
    I assume you mean "Kensai + AA is inferior to AA + Ranger Capstone"?

    If so, I'm hoping they don't let Master of Archery as it is... for reasons you know.
    DDOwiki.com, #1 source for DDO information.

  14. #14
    Community Member moorewr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    <--here
    Posts
    5,748

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    Yes, although it's not a bad design as it currently exists in game, because it only applies to Arcane Archer. Ranged being a hopelessly weak combat style, Arcane Archer is thus a weak specialty, and nearly irrelevant (except as a red herring, which punishes players who don't understand the system).

    The real reason Elf Arcane Archer had to count as a Ranger specialty was to prevent someone from taking AA and Deepwood Sniper at the same time, since they have nearly identical lists of prereqs. If it were allowed to be AA and Tempest at once, that wouldn't be a problem.

    Likewise, if Stalwart Defender was allowed as a Dwarf specialty, the only thing they'd have to avoid is a paladin learning both SD and Defender of Syberis, because once-again the prereqs heavily overlap.

    So what they can do is readjust the racial specialties to only conflict with a specific list of named specialties, instead of all the specialties granted by a certain class. That breaks parsimony, but gives a better result.
    All of this really points out to me what a mistake it was to tie our version of Prestige classes to specific class levels. If they had simply made it so you could have only one prestige line, with pre-reqs similar to PnP's Prestige Classes, they'd have a much simpler grid of unintended consequences to worry about.
    <|| “Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch’entrate.” ||>
    AEsahaettr | AlfredSartan | Botharel | PeterMurphy | Weesham etc.

  15. #15
    WikiGnome
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Québec City, Canada
    Posts
    24,864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moorewr View Post
    All of this really points out to me what a mistake it was to tie our version of Prestige classes to specific class levels.
    Since they intended PrE to act as balance between classes, I doubt it.

    Don't get me wrong, I sort of like the idea of detaching PrE's from specific classes (as far as I know, Aesop and I were the first to discuss that) but I do understand the reasons for keeping it that way (although some PrE should be shared by multiple classes). Plus, I love the various builds it can create if they load the class better (Tempest I and Tempest III too powerful of tiers, Kensai I and FB I and II being horrible, etc.)
    DDOwiki.com, #1 source for DDO information.

  16. #16
    Community Member moorewr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    <--here
    Posts
    5,748

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Since they intended PrE to act as balance between classes, I doubt it.

    Don't get me wrong, I sort of like the idea of detaching PrE's from specific classes (as far as I know, Aesop and I were the first to discuss that) but I do understand the reasons for keeping it that way (although some PrE should be shared by multiple classes). Plus, I love the various builds it can create if they load the class better (Tempest I and Tempest III too powerful of tiers, Kensai I and FB I and II being horrible, etc.)
    The current system creates abominations. I haven't run the numbers to see if there are feats/AP for this, but even thinking about a character that is Tempest I/Kensai I/Siberys I/Dwarven Defender x shows how broken their design is.

    Looking at PnP shows me that they thought about class balance their as well. Most prestige classes are decently set up to narrow the paths to them - arcane archers, for example, need to have ranged feats, able to cast arcane spells.. Tempest fighters/rangers/rogues etc have to invested in a bunch of feats, have a decent BAB...
    <|| “Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch’entrate.” ||>
    AEsahaettr | AlfredSartan | Botharel | PeterMurphy | Weesham etc.

  17. #17
    WikiGnome
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Québec City, Canada
    Posts
    24,864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moorewr View Post
    The current system creates abominations.
    Can you elaborate more?
    DDOwiki.com, #1 source for DDO information.

  18. #18
    Community Member moorewr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    <--here
    Posts
    5,748

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Can you elaborate more?
    I put one example in the post. I'll add more as I think of them. Suffice to say, we are all doodling with:

    Tempest I/x II
    Tempest II/x I
    Warchanter/Tempest/etc.

    Chinese menu prestige combos.
    <|| “Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch’entrate.” ||>
    AEsahaettr | AlfredSartan | Botharel | PeterMurphy | Weesham etc.

  19. #19
    Community Member vtecfiend99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    969

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moorewr View Post
    Chinese menu prestige combos.
    All this seems like to me is a way to mess up a character pretty good.

    Tempest I/Warchanter I/ Kensai I?


    Doesn't really seem all that good to me, and I love multi classed characters.

  20. #20
    WikiGnome
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Québec City, Canada
    Posts
    24,864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moorewr View Post
    Suffice to say, we are all doodling with:
    Can I ask where the problem is?
    Quote Originally Posted by moorewr View Post
    Tempest II/x I
    That's an horrible build. Working the numbers on it right now (I should have the post up by tonight) and it's truly saddening.

    The only exception is the Tempest II/Warchanter I builds but those are an exception.
    DDOwiki.com, #1 source for DDO information.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload