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  1. #41
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I think I commented on this before, but the main thing I would change on this build is to pick up the maximize feat at the expense of either toughness, improved critical slash, or khopesh. Since the OP is a chaos blade fan I would get rid of toughness. Fyi you should experiment without toughness especially considering all the gear you have OP it really does not make that much of difference to this build. I think not having maximize is reflective of having another bard which is more healing specced and regularly running with alot of healers. Being able to heal, cc, dps, and buff is what really makes the level 20 human warchanter bard so special. I have maximize and quicken for that matter and it rocks.
    You know how I feel about maximize and quicken, but adding them to this build simply waters it down too much. Dropping the 50ish HP for maximize without getting quicken to make it nofail when I need it is just not a good trade-off. It makes me squishier instead of more survivable when it matters most. (And if concentration checks aren't a problem, my existing healing with spells and scrolls works fine. Bard heal scrolls with mastery and human healing amp are uber). Dropping khopesh or improved critical are too much of a DPS loss to justify.

    I have several other builds in my collection that use rapiers or fighter splashes to fit in quicken and maximize (for example, my wife has Fanttom of the Roq Opera, a 16 bard / 2 rog / 2 ftr that is similar to this with quicken, maximize, and evasion). Would I trade it in? At this point in the game, nope. I run Roq through epic quests every night (super close to that Marilith chain with ASF rune) and I have no regrets.

    Others doing similar builds may find a lot of benefit from dropping khopesh and toughness to fit in quicken and maximize, but do your best to avoid the biggest problem with most bards: being too weak at everything. Going from 520 or 500 HP to 470 or 450 HP is a big drop, and a bigger one for a bard than some of the other classes that can afford to lose a little beef. Those little dps drops are like losing tempest.

    It's a self-fulfilling prophecy -- as you become less able to melee competitively, you'll spend more time overcomphensating by spending all your time healing. Not that bards can't be great healers, but those cure lights and cure moderates need a lot of help to fully keep up with classes like favored soul and cleric, even when the cleric in question is a melee, too. Roq Star caps out around 1100 SP + mysterious bauble + spell storing ring + torc, which is like an unlimited supply of displacements, hastes, rages, and buffs for the party. I do my part to help out, and I'm always there with a scroll or cure critical when needed, but I'd be a pretty crappy "healer" on this character. I like not having to hold back on the buffing.
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  2. #42
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post
    You know how I feel about maximize and quicken, but adding them to this build simply waters it down too much. Dropping the 50ish HP for maximize without getting quicken to make it nofail when I need it is just not a good trade-off. It makes me squishier instead of more survivable when it matters most. (And if concentration checks aren't a problem, my existing healing with spells and scrolls works fine. Bard heal scrolls with mastery and human healing amp are uber). Dropping khopesh or improved critical are too much of a DPS loss to justify.

    I have several other builds in my collection that use rapiers or fighter splashes to fit in quicken and maximize (for example, my wife has Fanttom of the Roq Opera, a 16 bard / 2 rog / 2 ftr that is similar to this with quicken, maximize, and evasion). Would I trade it in? At this point in the game, nope. I run Roq through epic quests every night (super close to that Marilith chain with ASF rune) and I have no regrets.

    Others doing similar builds may find a lot of benefit from dropping khopesh and toughness to fit in quicken and maximize, but do your best to avoid the biggest problem with most bards: being too weak at everything. Going from 520 or 500 HP to 470 or 450 HP is a big drop, and a bigger one for a bard than some of the other classes that can afford to lose a little beef. Those little dps drops are like losing tempest.

    It's a self-fulfilling prophecy -- as you become less able to melee competitively, you'll spend more time overcomphensating by spending all your time healing. Not that bards can't be great healers, but those cure lights and cure moderates need a lot of help to fully keep up with classes like favored soul and cleric, even when the cleric in question is a melee, too. Roq Star caps out around 1100 SP + mysterious bauble + spell storing ring + torc, which is like an unlimited supply of displacements, hastes, rages, and buffs for the party. I do my part to help out, and I'm always there with a scroll or cure critical when needed, but I'd be a pretty crappy "healer" on this character. I like not having to hold back on the buffing.
    I agree with your statement about trying to do too much and what I am talking about is pretty gear and resource intensive, but man oh man it is awesome what the level 20 human warchanter bard can do right now. I can not tell exactly what type of healer you are - I imagine a good one anyway. In a good healer's hands you can do so much I can not express this any clearer. I just use cure serious, cure crit, heal scrolls, cure lt mass, cure mod mass, and cure mod mass scrolls. My dps is still outstanding although I do not have khopeshes but rather min 2 piercers and deathnips/stunners for epic gameplay.

    This all may change soon for instance they could add things that require a change of feats from anything from weaponry to monsters, but holy cow..
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  3. #43
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart_D View Post
    I like this build and have started out a 28-pt version (16 15 14 8 8 12) which i enjoy immensely. I wonder which 6 skills you improve or do you spread them out more?
    I took:

    Concentration
    Use Magic Device
    Perform
    Move Silently
    Hide
    Balance / Jump / Tumble split

    I would recommend haggle if you do not already have a haggler.
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  4. #44
    Community Member Fenin's Avatar
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    I was looking at building a 28 pt version along these lines. Love grouping with Bards but have never rolled one. How far behind would I be in 16+ content if I went 2HF vs 2WF? I was thinking feats along the lines of – Toughness, THF, Maul, Weap Foc Blug, ITHF, PA, GTHF, and Extend. I know glancing blows hasn’t completely eliminated the gap between 2WF and 2HF, but is it close enough now that this wouldn’t be too gimped? Plus, I could drop DEX and pump up CHR.

    Also wondering – since I’m starting at 16 STR and don’t have immediate access to a nice STR tome, whether it might be better to drop PA and take Extend at 12. Will my to hit be high enough at that point to warrant keeping PA or am I better off hitting more often for less damage?

    And again along those same lines – if I were to take Extend over PA at 12, what feat do you thing I should fit in at 18? PA at this point when my numbers should be about as good as they’re going to get? Or would I be better served in picking up a different feat? Power Crit is probably not as attractive for blunt weaps.

    In skills you were taking Move Silently and Hide. I thought things like MS, Hide, Listen were not very useful in DDO. I could see them being perhaps solo beneficial. How do you use them in your play?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Fenin; 02-26-2010 at 04:57 PM.

  5. #45
    Community Member In_Like_Flynn's Avatar
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    Thanks Anthios888. You saved my bard.
    <°)))>< O l d T i m e r s ' G u i l d ><(((°>
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    G h a l l a n d a ><(((°>

  6. #46

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    Why is this build taking WF: Pierce and IC: Slash?

  7. #47
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Once upon a time, there were these things called Wounding Rapiers of Puncturing, which meant you won at DDO.

    I used mineral II khopeshes (that come with keen) and used rapiers for my "effect" weapons. This is still a really nice way to go if you are interested in getting things like banishing and don't have Abbot swords. At this point, though, if I was starting new, I would just stick to slashing and use khopeshes all the way through.

    Giving up improved critical permanently is no longer worth it, as lightning II greensteels and epic chaosblades are way too much DPS to pass up. The second I upgrade to one of these weapons on Roq, the improved critical: piercing will be out the door.

    I'll fix the original post for clarification
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  8. #48

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    Thank you. I anticipated that would be the response and appreciate the clarification.

  9. #49
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Default Improved Critical

    Some people have been asking about the necessity for improved critical on a bard. Here is the difference it makes on my build, fully geared and self-buffed. It's about 10% more DPS on this particular build, and gives access to many more weapons.

    Roq's DPS with khopeshes
    Mineral II -- 293 DPS
    Chaosblades -- 300 DPS
    Lightning Strikes - 325 DPS
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  10. #50
    Community Member jadenkorr's Avatar
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    Hello, im new to bards, been reading the various bard builds, and find myself liking this one a lot. Just a quick question, what is the weapon focus: slashing for? IIRC, none of the other feats require it.

  11. #51
    Community Member Samadhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadenkorr View Post
    Hello, im new to bards, been reading the various bard builds, and find myself liking this one a lot. Just a quick question, what is the weapon focus: slashing for? IIRC, none of the other feats require it.
    warchanter requires it
    sravana, kirtana, smarana, dasya, atma-nivedana
    ...NAMASTE...

  12. #52
    Community Member Geekgirl27's Avatar
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    Default Thank you!

    Just wanted to say thanks for posting this build. Used it (with a couple of tweaks to suit my playstyle) for my second toon, and just hit lvl 20 last week (fisrt lvl 20 since moving from Keeper).

    Without a doubt, the most fun alt I've ever had, and never a moment when not contributing to party goodness! DPS, buffs, healing, haggling - what more could anyone ask? Even have guys I'm running with say they'd rather have one of her than another arcane & another DPS.

    +1 Rep and loads of gratitude!
    KEEPER, 2006-2009: Viyesha, Alyxana, Jehane, Kyurh, Anahdra, Ashyn, Katriyn, Ryannh, Taeven, Suliyra, and other friends... Lost, but not fogotten.
    CANNITH, 2010- : Kythahra, Alyxana, Viyesha, Ashynn

  13. #53
    Community Member justice921's Avatar
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    Default Thank You for this

    I wanted to respec my bard to do effective CC without watering down her DPS, this thread has given me some great ideas. TYVM

  14. #54
    Founder Sani_Medicor's Avatar
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    Cool build...may give it a shot...might take extend spell instead of toughness at level one for longer buffs and swap it out after a few levels for warchanter.

  15. #55
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    hey, just an update for those with this build or similar bard builds:

    I did make an Epic Marilith Chain, and discovered that the 15% Arcane Spell Failure rune does not stack with Seven-Fingered Gloves. I have 4% ASF with or without.

    That was a lot of grinding to find that out, but at least the armor is still quite nice, even if it has 4% ASF. Because I am often not the only healer in the party, I think I will continue to use it, but I would not recommend it for a build with a healing focus.
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  16. #56

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    I'm having a blast with this build so far, I just had a couple of questions if someone could answer them

    1. I see Bard Devotion III listed amongst the enhancement choices, but I don't see any such enhancement. Have I missed it somehow, has the name changed?

    2. I also see Wand Mastery. Does this mean Wand & Scroll Mastery, rather than Wand Heightening? (Since I wouldn't see this build doing a lot of offensive wand-whipping anyway unless I'm mistaken.)

    Thanks!

  17. #57
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CombatLibrarian View Post
    I'm having a blast with this build so far, I just had a couple of questions if someone could answer them

    1. I see Bard Devotion III listed amongst the enhancement choices, but I don't see any such enhancement. Have I missed it somehow, has the name changed?

    2. I also see Wand Mastery. Does this mean Wand & Scroll Mastery, rather than Wand Heightening? (Since I wouldn't see this build doing a lot of offensive wand-whipping anyway unless I'm mistaken.)

    Thanks!
    Bard Song Magic and Wand & Scroll Mastery. OP edited for clarity.
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  18. #58

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    Well, I've hit level 9 and a snag. Entirely my own fault, I needed to read more thoroughly.

    Without having the +2 Dex tome ready to use, I can't take Imp. TWF at level 9. I'm pretty new to DDO, and I don't have much cash lying around and won't be able to raise it easily (The tomes run for a minimum of about 375k plat on my server). I'm thinking of the following solution:

    1. Take Khopesh Proficiency at level 9
    2. Use a +1 Dex Tome
    3. Take +1 to Dex as my level 12 stat bump
    4. Take Imp. TWF at level 12
    5. ???
    6. Profit!
    7. (Pray I eventually can get my hands on a +4 STR tome.)
    Last edited by CombatLibrarian; 09-04-2010 at 06:07 AM.

  19. #59
    Community Member Dendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CombatLibrarian View Post
    Well, I've hit level 9 and a snag. Entirely my own fault, I needed to read more thoroughly.

    Without having the +2 Dex tome ready to use, I can't take Imp. TWF at level 9. I'm pretty new to DDO, and I don't have much cash lying around and won't be able to raise it easily
    Spend some real cash, buy some turbine points, buy a tome from the DDO Store. It's a trivial ammount of money.

  20. #60
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CombatLibrarian View Post
    Well, I've hit level 9 and a snag. Entirely my own fault, I needed to read more thoroughly.

    Without having the +2 Dex tome ready to use, I can't take Imp. TWF at level 9. I'm pretty new to DDO, and I don't have much cash lying around and won't be able to raise it easily (The tomes run for a minimum of about 375k plat on my server). I'm thinking of the following solution:

    1. Take Khopesh Proficiency at level 9
    2. Use a +1 Dex Tome
    3. Take +1 to Dex as my level 12 stat bump
    4. Take Imp. TWF at level 12
    5. ???
    6. Profit!
    7. (Pray I eventually can get my hands on a +4 STR tome.)
    I'd say this is getting way too complicated. You don't need to put a level-up in dexterity. You can begin by taking Khopesh and Improved Critical at 9 and 12. You can take other filler feats at 15 and 18, and switch these out using your free feat exchange once you pull a +2 tome, which I assure you will happen eventually. In the mean time, I'd probably lean towards using two-handed weapons (no big deal) and then actually using the dual khopeshes once you have specced into improved and greater two weapon fighting. It's not like you can't enjoy the build with this feature delayed a few levels.

    And hey, when I was first rolling my alts, those tomes were like double that, and considered quite cheap! And there wasn't any Turbine store! And I had to walk uphill both ways!
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

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