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  1. #21
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    I can't believe my eyes!

    Like I said a long time ago, bard CC is no joke. Due to other obligations I dont have Mississippe at 20 yet... but so far my spells are all sticking. Even though they nerfed Irresistible Dance a bit, its still hella effective. Beholders, Ellies, Orthons really have little chance against it.

    Bards dont get mass hold monster which is my favorite cc spell. In epic content though enchantment based spells work well so cc bards actually are decent although still not as good as wizards or sorcs because they have less spell access (they do not have great spells like web, halt undead, mass hold monster, or symbol of stunning/persuasion).
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Bards dont get mass hold monster which is my favorite cc spell. In epic content though enchantment based spells work well so cc bards actually are decent although still not as good as wizards or sorcs because they have less spell access (they do not have great spells like web, halt undead, mass hold monster, or symbol of stunning/persuasion).
    This is good news indeed for bards. Naturally, a bard will never have the CC spell selection of a Wiz or Sorc, nor should they.. Good bards are usually busy doing so many other things anyway. I do agree that having access to mass hold monster and some symbols would really be HUGE for bards and give bards more mass appeal..

    It really comes down to understanding WHAT a bard can do and doing it very, very well.


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  3. #23
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    This is good news indeed for bards. Naturally, a bard will never have the CC spell selection of a Wiz or Sorc, nor should they.. Good bards are usually busy doing so many other things anyway. I do agree that having access to mass hold monster and some symbols would really be HUGE for bards and give bards more mass appeal..

    It really comes down to understanding WHAT a bard can do and doing it very, very well.
    Aandre, I hate to turn down a compliment, but I think you have my builds mixed up. Roq Star is pretty bad at crowd control and her healing is not on par with a real "healer". Her purpose is much more melee focused and that's why Madmatt and I were discussing using things like otto's irresistible that don't require much casting ability at all. In many situations, I'm with him and would trade crowd control for the DPS Roq brings just because it is so fun to play. As far as which build I would recommend, I favor neither. A DPS warchanter and a CHA warchanter have different strengths. Each player knows what she is looking for.

    The bard you have run with of mine is Elizabella, and fits more the description you wrote above.
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post
    Aandre, I hate to turn down a compliment, but I think you have my builds mixed up.
    Well, my compliment was more for your general understanding and playstyle of warchanters.... more than it was for Roq's ability to do serious CC. Looking a little closer at this build its obvious where her strengths lie. (I didnt look at Roqs stats before I posted, it was just mistaken ID) I was also pointing out that if quality warchanters can hit Ottos in Epic content, that it bodes very well for us Spellsingers out there... As for which build I was referring to in the previous post, of course I was thinking of Elizabella... Must admit, since I'm contemplating building a warchanter, it would be fun to see Roq in action...

    I get lots of questions on building a bard... as I'm sure you do. When someone wants to roll a warchanter, without hesitation I send em your way.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 11-04-2009 at 06:32 AM.


    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Dungeons & Dragons Online Guild
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  5. #25
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Arrow Roq Star's Update 2-3 Update

    Changes for Update 2-3, pending Dragon loot:

    FEATS
    Switching Improved Critical: Piercing for Slashing.

    STATS
    Pulled +3 dex tome from VoD 20th and may lesser reincarnate to pick up a bracket of STR, CON, or CHA depending on which seems like a good investment. No TR plans for this character.

    GEAR

    Epic Desert really opened up a lot of options for Roq. Picking up Seeker 10 (at the expense of my +5 resist and Destruction robe) will be totally worth it, and the epic Chaosblades are a big upgrade from my standard mineral IIs. Good thing for her is that I recently decided to make my khopesh cleric a greatsword warforged, so Roq is first in line for chain and blades.

    Now, the challenge of getting rid of that pesky 25% Arcane Spell Failure is doable with an ASF rune and the 7-fingered gloves from the Titan raid, which I lucked into in about 10 runs. This is a character that already wore several Desert items static (Firestorm Greaves and Torc), so it won't be a stretch to upgrade those provided there is not too much competition from my alts.

    I'm very excited about what Dragon and Gianthold could bring, but here's where I'm at right now:

    • Weapons: *Epic Chaosblades, Greensteel khopeshes: Mineral IIs with blast and +2 con, *Lightning II swith blasts, Misc. Greater Banes etc.
    • *Armor: Epic Marilith Chain (Seeker +10 / DR/5 Evil / Evil Guard / -15% Arcane Spell Failure)
    • Bracers: Greensteel Bracers (Wizardry VI / 150 SP / lightning strike guard, +6 cha skills)
    • Goggles: Tharne's Goggles (Seeker +5, True Seeing, spot 15)
    • Helm: Minos Legens (Toughness / Heavy Fortification)
    • Necklace: Torc of Prince Raiyum (Transform Kinetic Energy)
    • Trinket: Litany of the Dead (+1 hitdam / +1 to all stats)
    • *Cloak: Greensteel Weave Cloak (45 HP / 6 wis / +1 str skills +5 con skills)
    • Belt: Knost's Belt (Greater False Life, 6 con)
    • *Boots: Epic Firestorm Greaves (+4 resist / 6 dex (Also, Swaps and Boots of Anchoring))
    • Gloves: Seven-Fingered Gloves (+5 UMD, -10% ASF)
    • Ring: Encusted Ring, (Frenzied Berzeker Set bonus / 6 str / +3 ex. str)
    • Ring: Thamor's Ring, (6 CHA, +1 CON, 20% healing amplification)

    *Items I don't have finished yet. Cloak was miscrafted without the concordant opposition, so I may re-craft to another effect. I have the base items for all of the DQ loot but am still working on the chain and khopeshes.

    Thamor's ring could be really flexible if there was some better ring out there from Dragon or something. I would ideally like to get a Shintao or Tempest set, but since the character already has 20 Tower completions and no boots, that might take me a while to prioritize.

    PLAYSTYLE

    Buffing with greater/superior Mending V-VII is kind of annoying, but with the mana available from Torc and Mysterious Bauble, I throw a lot of heals to people in addition to usual Axer Package. Besides that, not a lot has changed - sing melee fascinate haste and loot!

    WARCHANTER 3?
    Pretty please?
    Last edited by Anthios888; 02-05-2010 at 12:47 PM.
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  6. #26
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    You're a rock star.

    But, my bard is better.

    Boomph. There, I said it.

    Now what.

  7. #27
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunga View Post
    You're a rock star.

    But, my bard is better.

    Boomph. There, I said it.

    Now what.
    Your bard is ugly and mine is smokin' hot.
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  8. #28
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    GRR. Foiled again.

  9. #29
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    I like how you backed down before I even got into the screenshots.
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  10. #30
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    Pfft. I'm a big, big fan of screen shots.

    Let's share.

  11. #31
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    A subscription to RockFan online costs $19.95/month. You ain't got it.
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  12. #32
    Community Member Soldack's Avatar
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    I have looked at a lot of builds of a lot of classes with the notion what would be helped the most with a completionist feat.

    Doesn't completionist with your TWF build seem superior to any other clas sor build of anything...
    Originally Fernia Server
    Yamm -Drow Wizard 20, then a Human 15 FS/3pally/2 ROG, then Warforged Sorc 20, now a Barb 12/ rogue 2 Warforged...

  13. #33
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    You know, it would be pretty sexy to have completionist, but there are characters I would pick first simply because of the feat craziness.

    Why?

    • Roq Star is not very skill dependent. +3 UMD would be a nice feat, but what would I give up?
    • A strength and con bracket would be nice, but the DPS would be more with khopesh than a strength bracket.
    • Without evasion and other abilities, dex and wisdom are saves and nothing more.


    If I had completionist available, I would make a build with identical starting stats and feats to this one, except I would take 2 rogue and 2 fighter levels for evasion, trap skills and 2 extra feats. The extra feats would be completionist and extend or maximize. Then the completionist would really pay off, and you could also double as a healer and evader.

    That said, if completionist counts toward stat requirements for certain feats like G2WF etc, I would make a two weapon fighting battlecleric with divine might 3 in a heartbeat.

    Really, it's all theoretical for me - I may be pretty serious, but even I gave up on completionist. My one 36 point build and a basketfull of epic VON items seems like a huge enough project atm
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  14. #34
    Community Member Soldack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post
    You know, it would be pretty sexy to have completionist, but there are characters I would pick first simply because of the feat craziness.

    Why?

    • Roq Star is not very skill dependent. +3 UMD would be a nice feat, but what would I give up?
    • A strength and con bracket would be nice, but the DPS would be more with khopesh than a strength bracket.
    • Without evasion and other abilities, dex and wisdom are saves and nothing more.


    If I had completionist available, I would make a build with identical starting stats and feats to this one, except I would take 2 rogue and 2 fighter levels for evasion, trap skills and 2 extra feats. The extra feats would be completionist and extend or maximize. Then the completionist would really pay off, and you could also double as a healer and evader.

    That said, if completionist counts toward stat requirements for certain feats like G2WF etc, I would make a two weapon fighting battlecleric with divine might 3 in a heartbeat.

    Really, it's all theoretical for me - I may be pretty serious, but even I gave up on completionist. My one 36 point build and a basketfull of epic VON items seems like a huge enough project atm
    Ohh completionist is a pipe dream, but I have never turned down a pipe...

    The other build I was toying with is Kensai fighter because of all the feats, but a bard woule let me take full advantage of the 11 inherent feats a completionist picks up. Pretty much only the gimpy Cleric turn undead boost would go by the wayside while EVERY other inherent completionist feat (even the casters) would be useful to your 2 weapon fighter bard build. I like the level 6 spells so much that I am leaning towards 2 rog/18 bard or 2 ftr/18 bard. ( My useless fantasy is 2 monk/18 bard or 2 pally/18 bard).

    Now with all this said, completionist is so many months (maybe a year) away that thsi akin to me saying I perfer harvard over yale for my 10 year-old son one day....
    Originally Fernia Server
    Yamm -Drow Wizard 20, then a Human 15 FS/3pally/2 ROG, then Warforged Sorc 20, now a Barb 12/ rogue 2 Warforged...

  15. #35
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Your gear setup is interesting, but I would prefer destruction on DT or epic spectral gloves or shintao set on my bard. The to-hit is pretty important on epic content and if I can buff the living heck out of other melee to-hit (destruction) it is very much appreciated. There may be some more options in update 3 and will likely be something in epic gianthold which alleviates this issue.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  16. #36
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Your gear setup is interesting, but I would prefer destruction on DT or epic spectral gloves or shintao set on my bard. The to-hit is pretty important on epic content and if I can buff the living heck out of other melee to-hit (destruction) it is very much appreciated. There may be some more options in update 3 and will likely be something in epic gianthold which alleviates this issue.
    My current armor has Destruction on it. It's not going anywhere. If I'm in a party that needs additional help to-hit, it's no problem to drop my own damage to help theirs -- I am a team player and very resourceful. Still, as much as I love destruct (I grinded it out on almost every character), I have found that it is one of those things that isn't always necessary and is often redundant when other members are wearing it. Assuming I can hit in a given quest, adding seeker 10 with dual khopeshes is a very major increase in DPS over your typical bard.

    I'd also like to add that epic spectral gloves is a wasted item for a bard as the comptence bonus does not stack with bard songs.

    Shintao set is on the wish list but I was not lucky enough to pull it in 20 runs, and I have other characters that have to take their turns out. It is something I will fit in but I do not see it as a big priority because of how nicely everything is working right now.

    Also remember that my to-hit songs are maxed out. I typically do not have major issues hitting on this character, even in epic content. A lesser reincarnate will give me a 38 strength thanks to a +3 dex tome I was able to pull.
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  17. #37
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post
    My current armor has Destruction on it. It's not going anywhere. If I'm in a party that needs additional help to-hit, it's no problem to drop my own damage to help theirs -- I am a team player and very resourceful. Still, as much as I love destruct (I grinded it out on almost every character), I have found that it is one of those things that isn't always necessary and is often redundant when other members are wearing it. Assuming I can hit in a given quest, adding seeker 10 with dual khopeshes is a very major increase in DPS over your typical bard.

    I'd also like to add that epic spectral gloves is a wasted item for a bard as the comptence bonus does not stack with bard songs.

    Shintao set is on the wish list but I was not lucky enough to pull it in 20 runs, and I have other characters that have to take their turns out. It is something I will fit in but I do not see it as a big priority because of how nicely everything is working right now.

    Also remember that my to-hit songs are maxed out. I typically do not have major issues hitting on this character, even in epic content. A lesser reincarnate will give me a 38 strength thanks to a +3 dex tome I was able to pull.
    I do not mean to critique all your builds it is just there are so few true power gaming bards out there. I know of very few on my home server of Khyber and very few post on the forums here. The epic spectral gloves are probably not a long term solution for a bard, but they do add +4 competence to hit which is 2 better then what inspire greatness gives.

    Advice on item posting you should post both sets of armor - one for a party that needs to hit in epic content such as rogues in group and really non barbarian/fighter melee and another for people that do not or when not in epic content.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  18. #38
    Community Member Soldack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post

    Shintao set is on the wish list but I was not lucky enough to pull it in 20 runs, and I have other characters that have to take their turns out.
    I only run one toon. I fyou didn't have alts, completionist wouldn't seem AS crazy. It would be still be crazy, but just slightly..lol
    Originally Fernia Server
    Yamm -Drow Wizard 20, then a Human 15 FS/3pally/2 ROG, then Warforged Sorc 20, now a Barb 12/ rogue 2 Warforged...

  19. #39
    Community Member Bart_D's Avatar
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    Question

    I like this build and have started out a 28-pt version (16 15 14 8 8 12) which i enjoy immensely. I wonder which 6 skills you improve or do you spread them out more?

  20. #40
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    I think I commented on this before, but the main thing I would change on this build is to pick up the maximize feat at the expense of either toughness, improved critical slash, or khopesh. Since the OP is a chaos blade fan I would get rid of toughness. Fyi you should experiment without toughness especially considering all the gear you have OP it really does not make that much of difference to this build. I think not having maximize is reflective of having another bard which is more healing specced and regularly running with alot of healers. Being able to heal, cc, dps, and buff is what really makes the level 20 human warchanter bard so special. I have maximize and quicken for that matter and it rocks.
    Last edited by maddmatt70; 02-17-2010 at 10:44 AM.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

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