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Thread: small monk rant

  1. #1
    Community Member captain1z's Avatar
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    Default small monk rant

    ok so when monks 1st came out I played one for about 1 hr and said "I dont like this" and promptly deleted it.
    Time passed and every now and then Id pull a good item that screamed of monkdom.

    Ive got fearsome of heavy fort robes and outfits, deathblock of heavy fort outfits, dual weakening of enfeebling kamas, weakening of enfeebling handwraps, +6,7 and 8 bracers and so on and so forth.

    I saved all this stuff and debated the idea, finally making a monk.

    Ive reached 10th level and built him taking the advice of other forumites but also tweaking to my tastes.

    The stats (in wind stance, where I normally sit)

    str - 16 ac - 38 w/bark pot (have chaosgardes but cant fit them in right now, maybe never)
    dex - 26 hps - 192
    con - 16
    int - 8
    wis - 24
    cha - 8

    pros:
    - I have fun playing him
    - hes fast and agile

    cons:
    - max damage Ive ever done is 21 pts (LAME!!)
    - when I get hit I go down like a .......... well u know
    - AC is not that great (I can roll a fighter with 10 dex and have better AC at same level)
    - I crit on a 20 only for x2 damage ("L" on the forehead)
    - I cant hold on to my ki and in good groups Im lucky to build any ki at all
    - my weakening handwraps dont work (I switched to maladroit but that doesnt lower enemy dps at all)
    - If my party wipes and Im still standing I usually dont have enough ki to help anyone out
    (and the ki based rez drains 50 ki that I dont have and 50 hp that I cant spare = LAME!!)
    - I cant use wands of any kind nor scrolls
    - I have a shuriken for a ranged weapon (mobs and players alike laugh at me for this)
    - my buffs dont last longer than 60 secs if Im lucky enuff to get them off
    - It would make sense to buff before a fight but monks cant do that, maybe if I can get in about 50 solid hits I can give the party a very minor buff (SUPER LAME!!!)

    The only reason I can still get invited in party's at all anymore is Im a half way decent player and can make what little this character can do work for a party. After 10 levels I sorta feel like Monks serve no purpose in a group and I could have built a rogue that would out perform him. I have some fun with my monk but many aspects of the class are just embarassing. Like when someone says "hit us with that fire/pos buff again" and I reply "I cant because there is nothing to beat on right now".

    For a support melee class I can barely support anyone and my melee damage is laughable.......... but I have tons of fun solo.


    Monks need tons of love starting with better crit ranges and multipliers and immediately followed by fixing all the gear that is available to him (meaning better stuff and stuff that works)

    Class is underwhelming and anti-climatic for the hype that was being generated for them.
    Ever bleed out in a thornbush? Welcome to UD14.

  2. #2
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    Not to say that Monks are perfect and don't need fixing, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by captain1z View Post
    cons:
    - max damage Ive ever done is 21 pts (LAME!!)
    Well, you made a Finesse character...that's generally how that goes...

    - when I get hit I go down like a .......... well u know
    - AC is not that great (I can roll a fighter with 10 dex and have better AC at same level)
    It'll catch back up, especially as a Dex character, there's a little hump spot. Starting at level 9 you're better off with Chaosgarde + Mage Armor potions (or an AC robe if you can acquire one) until level 13 and +6 AC bracers.

    - I crit on a 20 only for x2 damage ("L" on the forehead)
    Yeah, that is one reason why I didn't make a Finesse Monk. At least other Finesse characters can crit a bunch with Rapiers, Monks need to just raw flat out punch their way through and work that 'full Strength damage on off-hand' angle.

    - I cant hold on to my ki and in good groups Im lucky to build any ki at all
    That's the trade-off with Wind stance. In Fire stance I can't spend my Ki fast enough.

    - my weakening handwraps dont work (I switched to maladroit but that doesnt lower enemy dps at all)
    Yeah, sucks, we know. Mod 9 will be better.

    - If my party wipes and Im still standing I usually dont have enough ki to help anyone out
    (and the ki based rez drains 50 ki that I dont have and 50 hp that I cant spare = LAME!!)
    Wind stance again...and just a matter of being 10th level, 50 Ki is alot at that level...it gets much easier to acquire/retain.

    - I cant use wands of any kind nor scrolls
    You could raise UMD...?

    - I have a shuriken for a ranged weapon (mobs and players alike laugh at me for this)
    Yeah, it's just for pulling things.

    - my buffs dont last longer than 60 secs if Im lucky enuff to get them off
    Yeah, I dunno, 60 seconds feels okay to me. However, I really wish there were no set durations for anything in the game. Everything should scale to reward you for going deeper in a class. These buffs should have normal 'short' durations, Paladin Divine Favor/Might should too, and so on.

    - It would make sense to buff before a fight but monks cant do that, maybe if I can get in about 50 solid hits I can give the party a very minor buff (SUPER LAME!!!)
    Your Ki is set to your Concentration when you enter a quest. Get it higher to be able to do things 'fresh'.

    The only reason I can still get invited in party's at all anymore is Im a half way decent player and can make what little this character can do work for a party. After 10 levels I sorta feel like Monks serve no purpose in a group and I could have built a rogue that would out perform him. I have some fun with my monk but many aspects of the class are just embarassing. Like when someone says "hit us with that fire/pos buff again" and I reply "I cant because there is nothing to beat on right now".

    For a support melee class I can barely support anyone and my melee damage is laughable.......... but I have tons of fun solo.
    I personally think it's your Finesse build, I've always felt great with my Monk. Of course I know I'm not doing as much DPS as other optimized characters, but I hold my own against the majority.

    Monks need tons of love starting with better crit ranges and multipliers and immediately followed by fixing all the gear that is available to him (meaning better stuff and stuff that works)
    Nah, Finesse just doesn't work well for DPS, everyone knows that. It works out on other characters because they can stat damage with their Rapiers, but Monks stat damaging handwraps are broken, don't have piercing, and the crit range isn't great.

    Class is underwhelming and anti-climatic for the hype that was being generated for them.
    My Monk is my favorite right now. Though really, I think things felt a little tough at 10 too, but that's when all characters hit a slow down.
    Last edited by rimble; 04-01-2009 at 09:37 AM.

  3. #3
    Community Member Demoyn's Avatar
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    Get a good concentration item and learn to use meditate more. It won't make a monk a great class, but it'll sure help with a lot of the issues you listed here.

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    Community Member wiglin's Avatar
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    Default A Capped Monk's Experiance

    Against trash mobs I use +4 Maladroit of Weighted 3%. For most mobs, I can get to auto crits in 4 seconds. Then the mob is dead pretty quick. Unless someone is getting really lucky on their vorpal I can usually drop the mob before they go down to vorpal. Once they fix weakening on handwraps, I will turn on power attack instead of combat expertise and use weakening of weighted for even faster kills. Dropping the mobs to hit by 5 in the first flurry of blows, will make up for the lack of combat expertise and allow for more damage from power attack.

    Here is my build
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172507

    I am not a fan of str based monks, the 5 or so extra strength damage for me does not make up for the amount of damage you take in my opinion. when you get greater two weapon fighting you will get off 10 attacks in a couple of seconds while in a hasted wind stance. That will bring most regular mobs down to auto crits really fast. Having weighted on the wraps help as well. Since we attack so fast if procs quite often. From my experience, monks can excel in every part of the quest leading up to the rednamed.

    I also carry the following dual kamas because sometime it is better to go with the synergy of the group: vorpal, wounder, and weakening.

    Unbalancing strike works on rednames, so you will increase the dps of the party by using it. (if other members have any sneak attacks) Get the VOD goggles, and or halfling enhancements and you are doing decent dps as a dex build, all being completely self sufficient. I know alot of tanks that were the goggles, so when I land unbalancing strike on a mob, even if they have aggro they get 8 more damage per hit. As a halfling that stacks with halfling guile which for me adds 12 damage per hit. More if you take more of the guile enhancements.

    As a monk I have full healing amplification and I uses fist of light, healing ki, and then a few potions. I have no need for scrolls or wands.

    I am going to craft a ppp shuriken with true rez. Until then I am not worrying about raising people. I will also add healing amplification 30%, so I can equip it for drinking pots after a battle for less pot usage.

    My AC is currently 55 unbuffed. When I get chattering (use with parrying handwraps) or insight on my dragontouched outfit that will put it to 59. Add in a barkskin pot and haste potion and you have 63 self buffed. Even while leveling if I drank a barkskin pot and used combat expertise I rarely took damage unless doing a quest way above my level.

    I stay in wind stance and have two levels of crane. With weighted and dropping mobs to autocrit within seconds I always have enough ki. If I want to land stunning on tougher mobs, I switch to water stance. Once I get a +2 tome I will be at 30 wis, but even at 28 it lands decent enough. Although since mobs drop to auto crit so fast I find myself using stunning fist less and less. I may swap it out for another feat.
    Last edited by wiglin; 04-01-2009 at 11:42 AM.

  5. #5
    Community Member feynman's Avatar
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    You're a monk; if you you don't have STR, you're not doing anything.

    Few thoughts:

    More STR

    Use power attack to up your DPS

    Ironweave robe out of VON is nice at that level, and will let you use chaosgarde

    Higher + on weapons is as important as effects (adds to-hit as well as damage)

    Crit-dependent effects (bursting, bone-breaking, etc) are less useful for monks

    Fire stance generates ki faster; fill up and switch to wind stance

    Monks have sub-par DPS, we know this. OTOH, sucky players have sub-par DPS, too, so just think of it as a harder difficulty level

  6. #6
    Community Member wiglin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feynman View Post
    You're a monk; if you you don't have STR, you're not doing anything.

    Few thoughts:

    More STR

    Use power attack to up your DPS

    Ironweave robe out of VON is nice at that level, and will let you use chaosgarde

    Higher + on weapons is as important as effects (adds to-hit as well as damage)

    Crit-dependent effects (bursting, bone-breaking, etc) are less useful for monks

    Fire stance generates ki faster; fill up and switch to wind stance

    Monks have sub-par DPS, we know this. OTOH, sucky players have sub-par DPS, too, so just think of it as a harder difficulty level
    Below is my opinion:

    I would only go str based on an elf. All level ups into str, enhancements into dex, and use elf dragonmarks for displacement, but even then you end up being up to about 10 ac behind the dex based monk. The difference between 50 ac and 60 is very noticeable. Str based would increase damage by 6 damage per hit (+12 more strength), so 60 damage per round. (Power attack can be used by both builds so not included) The problem I have is that once you factor in drinking more pots do to the increase in damage taken, your dps actually goes down because of the time it takes to stay alive.

    This can be offset somewhat by elf displacement dragonmarks, but that just adds one more clicky to the mix again slowing down your attack rate.

    If you are relying purely on your cleric to heal you then sure you can do more damage, but I like to be self sufficient and not rely on other people to keep me alive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiglin View Post
    Below is my opinion:

    I would only go str based on an elf. All level ups into str, enhancements into dex, and use elf dragonmarks for displacement, but even then you end up being up to about 10 ac behind the dex based monk. The difference between 50 ac and 60 is very noticeable. Str based would increase damage by 6 damage per hit (+12 more strength), so 60 damage per round. (Power attack can be used by both builds so not included) The problem I have is that once you factor in drinking more pots do to the increase in damage taken, your dps actually goes down because of the time it takes to stay alive.

    This can be offset somewhat by elf displacement dragonmarks, but that just adds one more clicky to the mix again slowing down your attack rate.

    If you are relying purely on your cleric to heal you then sure you can do more damage, but I like to be self sufficient and not rely on other people to keep me alive.
    Halflings work just fine too, they're only -1 damage against Elves, and I think the Dragonmarks are better too if you want to go that route...but since Monks really don't draw aggro and sneak attack alot, Halflings really end up +7 damage. There's also Unbalancing Strike and Radiance weapons and whatever other opportunities grant sneak attack.

    The nice thing is that the Strength and Dexterity builds are really rather close to each other. By toggling PA/CE/Defensive Fighting and Fire/Air/Water stance you can juggle your DPS/AC scores around. I'm very very happy how my Halfling Strength/Fire Monk plays and the only thing I'd change would be to have raised Spot more (just for some quest stealthing fun).

    I've tried a high AC non-Intimidate build before and found it very frustrating...all this AC, party dying around me, and nothing I can do about it. Not to mention I didn't have to take CE nor Weapon Finesse nor put 4 starting points into Int...

    I'll try and post my build for discussion too in the next couple days, won't be able to tonight. I comment on others alot, so they should get a crack at me in return.
    Last edited by rimble; 04-01-2009 at 02:00 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member feynman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiglin View Post
    Below is my opinion:

    I would only go str based on an elf.
    I would only go monk on an elf

    Quote Originally Posted by wiglin View Post
    All level ups into str, enhancements into dex, and use elf dragonmarks for displacement, but even then you end up being up to about 10 ac behind the dex based monk.
    No, you don't; -4 dex = 2AC, everything else is the same, unless you went halfling, in which case you are paying more to keep up in DPS. Oh and skip the dragonmarks.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiglin View Post
    The difference between 50 ac and 60 is very noticeable. Str based would increase damage by 6 damage per hit (+12 more strength), so 60 damage per round. (Power attack can be used by both builds so not included) The problem I have is that once you factor in drinking more pots do to the increase in damage taken, your dps actually goes down because of the time it takes to stay alive.
    What calculation are you basing your numbers on? My monk can hit 30 in STR or DEX, or 28 WIS, depending on stance. My AC is, at most, 6 points below a max-dex, max-wis halfling (who will have exactly 0 DPS), or 4 points below a realistic finesse halfling (18 dex/16 wis), or 2 points below a finesse elf, or tied with a finesse human or dwarf.

    With the correct AC calculation, the difference isn't so great, and you don't lose time drinking pots. You have an extra feat (no weapon finesse), more DPS, and more resistance to enfeebling/exhaustion/etc (remember that affects your AC when you become encumbered).


    Quote Originally Posted by wiglin View Post
    If you are relying purely on your cleric to heal you then sure you can do more damage, but I like to be self sufficient and not rely on other people to keep me alive.
    Even without the cleric, curse of healing and the finisher are usually enough to keep my health up, and when it doesn't, I don't think that the 2 AC will make that big of a difference. In groups, the DPS is far more important, especially against bosses.

  9. #9
    Community Member wiglin's Avatar
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    The ac calculations were based on 5 CE but if I left out PA then I have to leave out CE. So that leave us comparing stance to stance. Fire Stance vs Wind Stance I also included rage in the str based, because unless you try to not get it it will get casted on you most of the time, and if you are strength base and are going for damage why would you not use potions anyway.

    As an elf you will be at 26 dex with a +2tome -3 to ac
    Rage -2 AC
    Compared to a Halfling -1 AC
    Compare PA to CE and PA gains 5 damage per hit over 5 ac.

    but still comparing stance to stance that is 6 AC behind. Still quite a bit when you are at the breaking point of 50-60ac self buffed.

    Their are times when I am chest soloing I do not drink a barkskin potion or use CE and the difference in getting hit from low 50s to upper 50s ac is quite noticeable. When surrounded by more than 2 mobs first of light will not maintain the healing. Now in a party situation if you are flanking it doesn't matter as much, but I do not like to be dependent on others. I like to zerg ahead and not wait.

    My build is easy to find. You can see the damage calculations. The dex build will be 6 points of damage behind per hit, that equals 60 damage more over 1 round of attack animations. Considering non-rednames are auto critted after a few seconds, that does not make a huge difference in dps. The wind stance is also hitting faster, so even if the sun stance is using maladroit the wind stance monk will get to auto crits faster causing the dps gap to close a little more.

    Base Damage: Wind (With Sneak Attack)
    2-16 2d8
    5 Stat
    5 Weapon
    6 Enh
    8 Goggles
    -------------------
    26-40 +Element +Bane x 10 Attacks / Round 260-400 +holy or greater bane.
    Double that after a few seconds and add bloodstone for auto crit. 380-920 +holy or greater bane
    That is not 0 dps and is only 60-120 damage per animation behind the sun stance, and that is before element and or bane damage.

    When weakening is fixed, I will switch to weakening of weighted and turn on power attack.

    Rednames is where the str based monks gain in an increase in dps. Now this is really where it matters for most hardcore gamers, and since when fighting most rednames mass heals are used, taking damage does matter as much if you have enough hitpoints to hang in the fight, so str based wins out here.

    Again this is my opinion, but I would take the increase in saves and ac over 6 points of damage. To each their own, but to say a finesse monk is far behind a str monk in the dps dept is not correct. It would only be correct if we stood their with plain +1 handwraps and did not use any of the tools at our disposal.
    Last edited by wiglin; 04-01-2009 at 04:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiglin View Post
    Again this is my opinion, but I would take the increase in saves and ac over 6 points of damage. To each their own, but to say a finesse monk is far behind a str monk in the dps dept is not correct. It would only be correct if we stood their with plain +1 handwraps and did not use any of the tools at our disposal.
    I don't have a problem with either build, though as mentioned I really do like how my Strength Halfling plays. Just wanted to say that the DPS is more difficult than this to compare, for example in Fire Stance I can spam Earth 3/Earth 2/Earth 1 strikes practically non-stop (as long as I'm getting hits in to build up my ki). That's +8 Damage + 2d6 Acid, +8 Damage, +4 Damage...that is applied at some varying hard as hell to calculate rate...not to mention cranking out QP's, SF's, and other buffs/moves quicker. Like most things, there's just so much to the build it's not fair to either to attempt a simple comparison.
    Last edited by rimble; 04-01-2009 at 03:22 PM.

  11. #11
    Community Member wiglin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimble View Post
    I don't have a problem with either build, though as mentioned I really do like how my Strength Halfling plays. Just wanted to say that the DPS is more difficult than this to compare, for example in Fire Stance I can spam Earth 3/Earth 2/Earth 1 strikes practically non-stop (as long as I'm getting hits in to build up my ki). That's +8 Damage + 2d6 Acid, +8 Damage, +4 Damage...that is applied at some varying hard as hell to calculate rate...not to mention cranking out QP's, SF's, and other buffs/moves quicker. Like most things, there's just so much to the build it's not fair to either to attempt a simple comparison.
    I agree. It comes down to preference. I am thinking of swapping out some halfling luck for all 3 tiers of earth stance for that same reason.
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    Community Member Goldeneye's Avatar
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    I know the problem you took more then two levels of monk
    Welcome to the greatest splash class ever
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiglin View Post
    I agree. It comes down to preference. I am thinking of swapping out some halfling luck for all 3 tiers of earth stance for that same reason.
    Right now I have all three tiers of Fire, Water, and Earth.

    Normal (DPS) Mode is Fire Stance + Power Attack w/ Earth Strikes (and Fists of Light as appropriate)--you can get the Earth Strikes to double-hit when timed right.

    Defensive Mode is Water Stance + Defensive Fighting w/ me running in circles
    Last edited by rimble; 04-01-2009 at 03:33 PM.

  14. #14
    Community Member wiglin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldeneye View Post
    I know the problem you took more then two levels of monk
    Welcome to the greatest splash class ever
    No arguments their, but for me Monk is the only reason I reactivated my account. Figure I'll stick with it and see what happens.
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    Community Member wiglin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimble View Post
    Right now I have all three tiers of Fire, Water, and Earth.

    Normal (DPS) Mode is Fire Stance + Power Attack w/ Earth Strikes (and Fists of Light as appropriate).

    Defensive Mode is Water Stance + Defensive Fighting w/ me running in circles
    I stay in wind stance most of the time. Non-rednames are dead pretty quick.

    Maladroit to auto crit, unbalancing strike always lands from lowering the reflex save, now I get full damage when facing the mob. Now I have lots of Ki to QP and SF other mobs when facing more than one.
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    dude, i dont see how ur having the problems ur having

    i have a lv 11 halfling monk right now, barkskin+haste i run 51AC

    i can almost NEVER spend my KI fast enough, and mind you i am a dex based AC build if you havn't guessed....

    i love the monk, and while i do no DPS right now dual lightning strike kamas (or some other shroud weapon) will dramadicaly increase my DPS output because of the imensly fast swinging....

    just tweek ur monk man
    Last edited by gysot89; 04-01-2009 at 03:44 PM.
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    Community Member Kintro's Avatar
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    I use power attack, halfling guile and backstabber gloves/goggles of intuition combined with unbalancing strike and Deception handwraps to increase DPS. Monks hasted in wind stance also get 130 swings per minute compared to 118 for a tempest ranger.

    The weapons are bad but there are ways you can improve the situation.
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  18. #18
    Community Member feynman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiglin View Post
    The ac calculations were based on 5 CE but if I left out PA then I have to leave out CE. So that leave us comparing stance to stance. Fire Stance vs Wind Stance I also included rage in the str based, because unless you try to not get it it will get casted on you most of the time, and if you are strength base and are going for damage why would you not use potions anyway.

    As an elf you will be at 26 dex with a +2tome -3 to ac
    Rage -2 AC
    Compared to a Halfling -1 AC
    Compare PA to CE and PA gains 5 damage per hit over 5 ac.

    but still comparing stance to stance that is 6 AC behind. Still quite a bit when you are at the breaking point of 50-60ac self buffed.

    Their are times when I am chest soloing I do not drink a barkskin potion or use CE and the difference in getting hit from low 50s to upper 50s ac is quite noticeable. When surrounded by more than 2 mobs first of light will not maintain the healing. Now in a party situation if you are flanking it doesn't matter as much, but I do not like to be dependent on others. I like to zerg ahead and not wait.

    My build is easy to find. You can see the damage calculations. The dex build will be 6 points of damage behind per hit, that equals 60 damage more over 1 round of attack animations. Considering non-rednames are auto critted after a few seconds, that does not make a huge difference in dps. The wind stance is also hitting faster, so even if the sun stance is using maladroit the wind stance monk will get to auto crits faster causing the dps gap to close a little more.

    Base Damage: Wind (With Sneak Attack)
    2-16 2d8
    5 Stat
    5 Weapon
    6 Enh
    8 Goggles
    -------------------
    26-40 +Element +Bane x 10 Attacks / Round 260-400 +holy or greater bane
    Double that after a few seconds and add bloodstone for auto crit. 380-920 +holy or greater bane
    That is not 0 dps and is only 60 damage per animation behind the sun stance.

    When weakening is fixed, I will switch to weakening of weighted and turn on power attack.

    Rednames is where the str based monks gain in an increase in dps. Now this is really where it matters for most hardcore gamers, and since when fighting most rednames mass heals are used, taking damage does matter as much if you have enough hitpoints to hang in the fight, so str based wins out here.

    Again this is my opinion, but I would take the increase in saves and ac over 6 points of damage. To each their own, but to say a finesse monk is far behind a str monk in the dps dept is not correct. It would only be correct if we stood their with plain +1 handwraps and did not use any of the tools at our disposal.
    OK, the big problem here is that we seem to have different ideas about what builds we are talking about. May I suggest that, since we both have capped monks, we post our exact builds, and compare on the assumption that we have built reasonably good examples of strength and dexterity builds, respectively?

    Mine:

    Stat (starting) (base) (@16) (w/stance)

    STR (16)(20)(27)(30)
    DEX (16)(19)(27)(30)
    CON (12)(14)(18)(20)
    INT (8)(8)(8)
    WIS (16)(17)(26)(29)
    CHA (8)(8)(12)

    Feats: Power Attack, Stunning Blow, Dodge, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC: bludgeoning, Toughness (x3), path of harmonious balance

    This is with tomes: +1 str, +3 dex, +2 con, +1 wis

    I have two observations that influence my opinion: The first is that, having been in hundreds of raids with other monks and discussing or overhearing build details, that strength builds help the group more, and the raid will be faster and (IMO, anyway) more fun. Perhaps they are not as survivable, but I play a cleric, too, and it seems to balance out, healing-wise.

    The second observation is that I have a pretty good chance of getting into groups excluding monks from the lfm if I send a tell to the leader saying "I am a strength build." Just sayin'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldeneye View Post
    I know the problem you took more then two levels of monk
    Welcome to the greatest splash class ever
    And the second level is arguable

  19. #19
    Community Member wiglin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feynman View Post
    OK, the big problem here is that we seem to have different ideas about what builds we are talking about. May I suggest that, since we both have capped monks, we post our exact builds, and compare on the assumption that we have built reasonably good examples of strength and dexterity builds, respectively?

    Mine:

    Stat (starting) (base) (@16) (w/stance)

    STR (16)(20)(27)(30)
    DEX (16)(19)(27)(30)
    CON (12)(14)(18)(20)
    INT (8)(8)(8)
    WIS (16)(17)(26)(29)
    CHA (8)(8)(12)

    Feats: Power Attack, Stunning Blow, Dodge, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC: bludgeoning, Toughness (x3), path of harmonious balance

    This is with tomes: +1 str, +3 dex, +2 con, +1 wis

    I have two observations that influence my opinion: The first is that, having been in hundreds of raids with other monks and discussing or overhearing build details, that strength builds help the group more, and the raid will be faster and (IMO, anyway) more fun. Perhaps they are not as survivable, but I play a cleric, too, and it seems to balance out, healing-wise.

    The second observation is that I have a pretty good chance of getting into groups excluding monks from the lfm if I send a tell to the leader saying "I am a strength build." Just sayin'.



    And the second level is arguable
    Here is my build
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172507

    I am pasting stats for wind stance since essentially the comparison was between wind stance and fire stance.

    Stats: Wind
    Str: 20 +5 (12Base +2Tome +6Item) I still need a +2 tome here.
    Dex: 32 +11(16Base +1Tome +2Enhancement +4level +6Item +3Stance)
    Con: 18 +4 (13Base +1Tome +6Item -2Stance)
    Int: 14 +2 (13Base +1Tome)
    Wis: 28 +9 (16Base +2Tome +3Enh +6Item) I still need a +2 tome here.
    Cha: 8


    Ac: Wind
    10 Base
    12 Dex
    6 Armor (DT)
    2 Dodge (Chaos Bracers)
    5 Protection
    4 Centered
    9 Wis
    1 Racial
    5 Combat Expertise
    1 Dodge Feet
    1 Ritual
    4 Insight (DT) I do not have this yet
    -------------------
    60 Before Buffs (This can vary a couple of points depending on equipment layout)

    3 Natural (Barkskin Pot)
    1 Haste
    3 Dodge (Chattering Ring) I do not have this yet
    -------------------
    67 Self Buffed

    4 Shield (no umd, so 1 minute clickies are situational at most)
    -------------------
    71 Self Buffed

    Centered Attack Bonus:
    16 Base (Flurry of Blows)
    11 Stat
    4 GH
    1 Haste
    1 Racial
    1-5 Weapon
    -5 CE
    +2 Tumbleweed
    -------------------
    31-40 No CE
    26-35 w/ CE

    10 Flank Bonus (2Normal, 3Enh, 5Goggles)
    -------------------
    41-50 No CE
    36-45 w/ CE

    Base Damage: Wind (With Sneak Attack)
    2-16 2d8
    5 Stat
    5 Weapon
    6 Enh
    8 Goggles
    -------------------
    26-40 +Element +Bane x 10 Attacks / Round

    Feats:
    1: TWF / Monk: Dodge
    2: Weapon Finesse
    3: Tougness / Monk: WoHB
    6: Combat Expertise / Monk: Stunning Fist
    9: ITWF
    12: IC: Bludgeoning
    15: GTWF
    18: Power Attack (no tome yet, so waiting until mod 9)

    For non rednames, I stick to my maladroit of weighted. (Unless dual vorpals or wounding synergizes with what the party is doing) While in a hasted wind stance not only does the weighted 3% proc often, but the mob will be at auto critts fairly quick. Once that happens I have nailed unbalancing stike for full sneak attack and doing double damage from crits.

    Rednames, you will win out everytime for pure dps, especially when a cleric is mass healing. I was planning on a second monk and making it a str based elf, but after seeing the breaking point for ac on my current monk I just couldn't see maintaining the dps unless I was being dependent on the cleric. That is why I thought about adding two levels of dragonmarks for displacement to help offset the lower ac. Of course by going your route and being a little more balanced you do open up the option of switching to wind stance for more ac.

    As far as getting groups. I do not pug raids, (except for reaver) but for normal parties I do not have any issues getting groups.

    I will say that most monks I have been in a party with would make me not want to ever have a monk in my party again.
    Last edited by wiglin; 04-01-2009 at 10:40 PM.
    Server: Ghallanda
    Characters: Wigs (FvS) / Wigz (Acrobat/Ninja)
    Guild: Ravensguard

  20. #20
    Community Member Aeneas's Avatar
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    Big monks also deserve a rant.
    READ ME NEW PLAYERS!!!
    Aeneas - Boosterseat - Eulogy - Diminutive - Moths

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