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  1. #41
    Community Member elyssaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Thanks Borror... considering the screenshots and comments it seems like they stack! Thanks for the link!

    /Ely

  2. #42
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elyssaria View Post
    Thanks Borror... considering the screenshots and comments it seems like they stack! Thanks for the link!

    /Ely
    Did you not read the thread he linked at all?

    That one just proves like dozens of others have they do not stack. And it was done by someone who has a head on their shoulders and did real ingame testing.

    Everyone who claims otherwise has never tested it, nor even claimed too. They go based on one of the most broken things in the game - a screenshot of the broken combat log ordering.

    And I can understand it.. They did a pretty silly thing and wasted dozens of large shroud ingredients on items that do not benefit their character.. As such they will think anything to set their minds at ease that they did not waste those ingredients.

    Eh smart players can at least use this guide and trust it, the main post still shows the majority of results are correct.

  3. #43
    Community Member Josh's Avatar
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    Why can't we just get the real numbers from the devs? Why is this such a big ****ing deal?
    Officer of SABBAT
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  4. #44
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Because things like this are purposely left to the players to test. And for the most part, the testing is complete and data agreed upon by all knowledgable players, so any further dev confirmation is unnessasry.

    Additional data proving multiple-like guards of any tupe do not stack:
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...=1#post2808771

  5. #45
    Community Member Samadhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    Why can't we just get the real numbers from the devs? Why is this such a big ****ing deal?
    Agreed.

    I can see them not giving us the proc %'s (because they tweak them behind the scene and probably will again in the future) Although I don't like it, I have learned to "deal" in this regard.

    As for whether something that takes that many larges is intended to stack or not though? Seriously - this really just needs a Dev to come tell us - because there is no good reason why that needs to be a secret and many, many players that for a damned good reason want to know the answer.
    sravana, kirtana, smarana, dasya, atma-nivedana
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  6. #46
    Community Member elyssaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Did you not read the thread he linked at all?

    That one just proves like dozens of others have they do not stack. And it was done by someone who has a head on their shoulders and did real ingame testing.

    Everyone who claims otherwise has never tested it, nor even claimed too. They go based on one of the most broken things in the game - a screenshot of the broken combat log ordering.

    And I can understand it.. They did a pretty silly thing and wasted dozens of large shroud ingredients on items that do not benefit their character.. As such they will think anything to set their minds at ease that they did not waste those ingredients.

    Eh smart players can at least use this guide and trust it, the main post still shows the majority of results are correct.
    To answer your question....

    I did of course read the thread... at first the thread clearly mentioned that it didn't work.. then some people said it was working and some not (so at this point it felt unsure). And at the end of the thread a clear screenshot was posted which to me seemed to confirm that is was working (and no other post after said anything else at the point I was looking).

    So how would it be strange that I came to the conclusion that it was working? I just read the info there and the info seemed to point to the way that it was working (and a screenshot which many like to say "Screenshot or it didn't happen"

    Cheers!

    /Ely

  7. #47
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elyssaria View Post
    And at the end of the thread a clear screenshot was posted which to me seemed to confirm that is was working (and no other post after said anything else at the point I was looking).
    If you read this thread you'd see I explained the stupid screenshot error several times..

    But here it is again:

    DDO's combat log is notorioulsy broken and has been for years, the devs are well aware of how bad it is, and never made any attempt to claim otherwise. You absolutley cannot rely at all on a single screenshot of the combat log to confirm anything in this game. I can manipulate it to make my combat log show the exact same thing while wearing a single concordant op... So it proves nothing.

    What you can rely on is the fact that 100% of players that ACTUALLY tested it, confirmed it does not stack. Not a single person did any real testing and said otherwise.

    Simple logic. Really starting to confound me how many people lack such a the basic ability to comprehend it.

  8. #48
    Community Member Pyromaniac's Avatar
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    I have a vaccum weapon. It definitely does not have any HD restrictions as I've even done a couple of Epic Mobs (only certain types).
    Thanks for the long time forum user purge of Aug '10 (Sarcasm for those who don't get it)

  9. #49
    Community Member Samadhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post

    What you can rely on is the fact that 100% of players that ACTUALLY tested it, confirmed it does not stack. Not a single person did any real testing and said otherwise.

    Simple logic. Really starting to confound me how many people lack such a the basic ability to comprehend it.
    You have a link to said testing?
    sravana, kirtana, smarana, dasya, atma-nivedana
    ...NAMASTE...

  10. #50
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samadhi View Post
    You have a link to said testing?
    6 posts up for lightning strike guard:
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2808771

    Lots more up are my own results for air guard, where my general assumptions made me initial believed multiples stacked - as that's what I wanted to believe.. But after I actaully tested it, I clearly found out they do not. I posted the results for wearing 1, and 2. But later did tests wearing 3 (2 shroud, 1 DT) getting the same results.

    Several others ones scattered around including ones that specificly tested concordant op.

    OP has at least 3 confirmed as no.

    Couple that say yes are obviously ppl who have never tested:
    Storm Lords website (obvious filled with a ton of made up data since almost all of their information is wrong and simply guesses based on vague information)
    Whoever posted the silly screenshot that proves nothing.

  11. #51
    Community Member Trillea's Avatar
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    Shade - donno if you saw this or not yet..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n33sAMpCZZs
    Quote Originally Posted by Philam View Post
    I nominate you as head developer of DDO!
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    That tears it. I need to get a donkey.
    Concentrated power is the enemy of liberty - Ronald Reagan

  12. #52
    DDOWiki
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    updated "stacking or not" section, with bunch of links to recent Conc Opp debates and testing results
    My HATE goes UNLIMITED!
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    DDOwiki - Sharing DDO knowledge

  13. #53
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yk49 View Post
    updated "stacking or not" section, with bunch of links to recent Conc Opp debates and testing results
    Nice to see the individuals testing results.

    But I don't understand why you linked the guy clearly trying to trick peoples video. Pretty much worthless as it's just clearly a biased result with no real data given other then showing that the Torc works better then concordant op- which everyone already knew.

  14. #54
    Community Member elyssaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Nice to see the individuals testing results.

    But I don't understand why you linked the guy clearly trying to trick peoples video. Pretty much worthless as it's just clearly a biased result with no real data given other then showing that the Torc works better then concordant op- which everyone already knew.
    Why is he tricking people?

    I can see the flaw with the torq, but still it appears to be a distinct difference when all items are equipped compared to only having one.

    But I would love to see a new video where the torq is activated in both tests and only the concordant opp items are removed for the second part. That would make the test more reliable.

    /Ely
    Last edited by elyssaria; 03-15-2010 at 04:52 AM. Reason: Changed some typos

  15. #55

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    Kudos on gathering this information. I'd like to know how long the haste from air guard lasts?
    Argonnessen mains: Pinku, Ohtaku

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by elyssaria View Post
    Why is he tricking people?

    I can see the flaw with the torq, but still it appears to be a distinct difference when all items are equipped compared to only having one.

    But I would love to see a new video where the torq is activated in both tests and only the concordant opp items are removed for the second part. That would make the test more reliable.

    /Ely
    It is a distinct difference but the torc procs much more often than the concordant opp. Also, weapons seem to definitely stack with accessories, and possibly with other weapons. Also, the experimenter wasn't careful to make sure the same number of mobs were hitting him each time. Therefore, it is a 4 variable experiment when we only want 1 variable. I think he's making a new video using the scientific method.

    edit: 5 variables because with 1 conc opp he needed to heal himself more often
    Last edited by LookingForABentoBox; 03-15-2010 at 06:52 AM.
    Argonnessen mains: Pinku, Ohtaku

  17. #57
    Community Member Kaervas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LookingForABentoBox View Post
    Kudos on gathering this information. I'd like to know how long the haste from air guard lasts?
    I'm pretty sure it's 30 seconds, I can go confirm it in game now, but by the time I test it someone would probably chime in and confirm/deny it already (going to test anyways, I have that on one of my DTs).


    Edit:
    Actually, it confirms that right on the first post, 30 seconds, now that I look again.

    Double edit:
    Just for extra confirmation, I went and let myself get hit for a while with it on, it's definitely 30 seconds.
    Last edited by Kaervas; 03-15-2010 at 06:37 AM.

  18. #58
    Community Member elyssaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LookingForABentoBox View Post
    It is a distinct difference but the torc procs much more often than the concordant opp. Also, weapons seem to definitely stack with accessories, and possibly with other weapons. Also, the experimenter wasn't careful to make sure the same number of mobs were hitting him each time. Therefore, it is a 4 variable experiment when we only want 1 variable. I think he's making a new video using the scientific method.

    edit: 5 variables because with 1 conc opp he needed to heal himself more often
    Ahh makes alot of sense..albeit I don't think he is tricking anyone.

    Ohh if it is what you say that weapons with same effect stack with accessories then it would be false to say that multiple effects of same type doesn't stack. However I sure hope that the video maker will do a new video where he makes it more exact between the tests with the only difference of the items equipped.

    Another thing I was thinking of... can it be different between different effects? I could see that some effect might unbalance the system if they are multiple but some others would not.

    Cheers!

    /Ely
    Cannith - Characters: Khierra - Former The Dominator (U7) (TR 12Mnk/7rog/1ftr) now becoming 13 Rogue/6 Monk/ 1 Druid Staff Orc # Tisseltass - The Prodigy (10rgr/2rog/1mnk) # Smallpoxx (14 pure shintao monk, healing amp) # Azatooth (12ftr/5rog/1mnk) # Eleona (15fvs/2mnk) # Heliga Birgitta (7cleric/3monk, Healing Amp)

  19. #59
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Final words on multiple guard stacking. Same as my testing showed nearly a year ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin
    No changes have been made to Concordant Opposition items since Piloto increased the proc rate from 1% to 4%, and increased the amount of spell points granted when it triggers. (Actions that were taken partially in response to this very thread.)

    As a generally applicable rule, "guard" effects do not stack with themselves.
    Temporary Hit Point guards typically trigger On Successful Hit, while Spell Point guards trigger On Damage, which explains the differences seen in proc rates.

  20. #60
    Stormreach Advisor
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    I had started to gather some data on Lightning Storm guard when Eladrin posted that guards were not supposed to stack. I originally intended to get more data but I guess with this post, there isn't much point. I'll still post it as a "confirmation" that it's not bugged

    In short: Ghost of a Chance, casual, AC 16, room past 2nd lever with respawns, relying on DR + concordant opposition to stay alive.

    1x Lightning Storm guard accessory (necklace): 0.64 kills/min (tested for 1h 13 mins)
    2x Lightning Storm guard accessories (necklace + boots): 0.62 kills/min (tested for 1h 36 mins)

    => They don't stack (and I'm glad they are two accessories I often swap )

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