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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    Why is it that everyone must melee with Harry on part 4 and 5 in the Shroud?? I was in a group that ranged him, true it took 4.5 rounds but the Clr.'s didn't run out of spell points and no one died. I've been seeing the posting "More Melee Needed" and when you have 2 clr.'s or worst a Clr. and Bard the Clr. having to go through mana pot and heal scrolls. Why, I'm begin to think it's bad tactics to melee him in part 4 and 5. And what is up with the tanks demanding a bard for song's?? What, is you build so useless the you need a more +'s to hit with your Green steel weapon!! Do you get a cookie if you kill Harry in two rounds??? Plx tell me why????
    are you on a normal or elite run? a normal shroud group where the melees have decent weapons (read: can bypass DR and possibly add 1 effect) will normally take just 2 rounds. the clerics will not need to use scrolls or pots. a good cleric can even solo heal both rounds without needing extra resources. having melees in part 4 generally mean you have an easier time in part 5. try ranging him in part 5 and you can see how harry will randomly move to 1 player and pummel him

    do we get a cookie? no but i get to run all my 10 toons in shroud 20 times a week with limited playing time
    If you want to know why...

  2. #42
    Community Member bandyman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Show_me_the_Platinum View Post
    Could have fooled me. Also I'm not bitter, I'm just annoyed at how "experienced" players play, and in my experience most people (at least 99.99% of the 50+ people who have zerged in groups I'm in) don't even know about some of the things in the quest because they just run through them (and if people that zerg have done every quest in the game multiple times? How come on Arg it's so hard to find elite openers that level caps need someone to open STK on elite for them?)

    Because the majority of them are on their 20th+ toon, and zerged back to level 16 without flower-sniffing along the way.

    I mean seriously; Do you know how many times I've ran STK? Dreams of Insanity? And you think I'ma run those normal/hard/elite on every new toon I roll? Seriously?


    Though I guess you're a busy person if you need to do 20 min runs on a RAID quest, you know something 11 other people are taking time out of their day to help you with cause obviously it's not that important of a quest.

    The 11 other people that I run it with are running it for the same reason I am; Ingredients, essences, shards, crafting, and/or tomes. And " we got about 3-6 other toons coming off timer today too, so let's get on with it! " So....
    Again; In Red.
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  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    I take it that you play Fighter types only not Clr.s right???
    most players that frequent the forums normally have 1 high level cleric. also it doesnt mean that a player with no clerics who not understand what you are saying. most decent clerics will not make remarks like yours. cleric players that keep whining about using resources should look at the group they run with and their play style
    If you want to know why...

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Show_me_the_Platinum View Post
    I just think it's because they want to be the center of attention. After all they have to be the hero even though they don't plan out everything from the start and play it by ear only to find that their base 12 str fighter can't hit the broad side of a barn and thus needs endless buffs to hit anything in the world even a CR .25 kolbold, just pay to rename your toon and call him MrGimpy and get it over with.

    If you believe that doing as much damage as possible is important, then WHY don't you have everyone in the 12 man raid group up there pounding away at him? Battle Clerics would be the best for this as after the fight they could heal you back up. Or is it possible that you don't have the con or hit points required to take all the damage handed out and need your own personal heal bot or two to keep you from dying?

    its a team effort simple as that. as a cleric, i also appreciate the buffs, prayer and recitation are 2 spells i often cast. the +1 damage adds up. with 9 or even 10 melees hitting on fiend, it can add up to hundreds of extra dps. more dps means fiend goes down faster = i use less resources

    Or is it that you refuse to accept a tactic where you're not the center of attention? Oh wait I forgot anyone playing a cleric is suppose to pay 15 bucks a month for you two have fun, cause heaven forbid that everyone in the party have fun while playing this game. If you want to be the guy then I suggest playing this game where you can be http://kayin.pyoko.org/iwbtg/ then you can be the guy.

    you play a cleric? i have 2

    Please respond to this all Mr. Gimpy builds.

    P.S. obviously this game is designed for fighters to be the center of attention since there are so many pure melee classes around like bards, rouges "you might be able to pick his pockets if you try hard enough.", and RANGERS.

    no one is in the centre of attraction, there are areas where each class can shine but with synergy, the level of play is increase and less effort is required. i think your idea is melee = dps and dps = king

    P.S. P.S. What's up with rouges anyway? They think that they can DPS when they get NO combat related feats. I mean I could see if they got two weapon fighting, or maybe weapon specialization, but they just think that sneak attack damage means they are a front line fighter. I mean come on they get 6 HP a level to a fighter's 10 and they don't even have that good of a to hit bonus. 3/4 of a fighter is the same as a clerics, and don't bards have the same thing? Wait I know. They are front line fighters for battle wizards and battle sorcerers who have a 1/2 to hit of that of a fighter. So I get it they hit more often the casters so that means they make good fighters who actually hit better then rouges, unless they are a Mr. Gimpy build then the fighter can only hit with Greater Heroism and Bard songs.
    sneak attack is DPS (except with undead or any 100% fort mobs). you might want to look inwards before making such statements. rogues can fight with impunity with threat reduction enhancements as well as using diplomacy. and in case you are still living in 2006, divine power, madstone rage as tensers can all boost BAB to max
    If you want to know why...

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Show_me_the_Platinum View Post
    Wow you must run with all the good bards and clerics. I get the bards who think they can DPS and the clerics are always running out of spell points (all three of them).

    wow you must run with all the bad bards and clerics

    Though I do see one point of dropping him fast. I wouldn't want to spend to much time actually playing the game.

    If you don't want to spend that much time playing this game why do you log on?

    In paper and pencil do you only spend 14-15 minutes in a session where your party starts off and finishes?

    in a pnp one may have 1-3 hrs (some longer) but everyone wants to accomplish as much as possible. do i want to spend more time in ddo? yes. but i dun need to spend all my available time one just ONE quest

    P.S. this pics for all you Mr. Gimpies out there Mr. Gimpiy

    nice pic, describing yourself?

    But wont it do more damage to have the clerics up there meleeing him if you think DPS is important. I level 16 cleric gets as many attacks as a rouge or bard and they can have green steel weapons on par with everyone and feats such as two weapon fighting
    i do have runs where all the clerics are in the fray, the only problem is not everyone is build for such activity or have the skills to handle both. again, key = teamwork, synergy
    If you want to know why...

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Show_me_the_Platinum View Post
    Ah so it's being a loot w**** more then actually playing the game.

    I'm not trying to talk about bringing fighters over rouges. Rouges do get the bonus sneak attack damage on things, the only problem is rouges don't realize "Hey if I grab agro I lose sneak attack."

    again, what kind of players are you around with? furthermore, a rogue cannot 100% of the time retain the agro of harry. the agro is random. hello.... have you done shroud?

    Plus I'm also talking about Argonnessen more then other servers (I don't know why but that server seems to have more people who know more about the game then anyone else but can only figure out one way of doing things unlike SARLONA who figured out how to do an all sorc run)

    ask the sarlonian sorc run how much resources they used. would i participate in such a run? absolutely, just for flavor, ask them if they do a 12 sorc run week in week out. i figured the answer would be no

    I also like how the hero method will work on the dragon raid (von 6), but isn't a valid method on the shroud part 4. Is the dragon that much harder to beat then harry?
    lol the dragon doesnt even MOVE! not to mention there isnt a safe spot in part 4
    If you want to know why...

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Show_me_the_Platinum View Post
    While yes zerging is part of the game. I do play a cleric and when I DIE 3 times in a quest because half the party ran past a mob cause "If the party runs past it we wont have to deal with it." (dying to me isn't really fun)

    dying isnt fun to me either but my clerics dun die 3 times in a quest. more importantly, they can hold their own

    Call me crazy but I don't want to run the same quest 4 times in a hour just so I can log off one character and switch to another to do the same exact thing over again. (I guess this is why new content doesn't come out fast enough for people. They run the shroud 50 times and only ran Dreams of Insanity once)

    nothing wrong with you. but running a shroud in 30 mins instead of 80 can free up alot of time for many other quests you can do. yesterday i did 1 shroud, got a guildie flagged for it, plus some other for favor runs in just 2 hrs

    Yes I am striving for attention, attention to these topics. These are things that I hear people complaining about all the time, but no one really seems to do anything about it.

    but I have gotten off topic with the above.

    I prefer to play smarter not faster. I've seen more party wipes because people think there is only one way of doing something, and something throws a monkey wrench into that plan (such as the tanks not getting away from harry when the blades move in)

    Though people have been using the saying "Time is money" you're right I've spent 15 dollars to play for a month and I'm not going to beat all the new stuff in one day.
    thats where the conflict arises. others like to play it smarter AND faster
    If you want to know why...

  8. #48
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Show_me_the_Platinum View Post

    P.S. obviously this game is designed for fighters to be the center of attention since there are so many pure melee classes around like bards, rouges "you might be able to pick his pockets if you try hard enough.", and RANGERS.

    P.S. P.S. What's up with rouges anyway? They think that they can DPS when they get NO combat related feats. I mean I could see if they got two weapon fighting, or maybe weapon specialization, but they just think that sneak attack damage means they are a front line fighter. I mean come on they get 6 HP a level to a fighter's 10 and they don't even have that good of a to hit bonus. 3/4 of a fighter is the same as a clerics, and don't bards have the same thing? Wait I know. They are front line fighters for battle wizards and battle sorcerers who have a 1/2 to hit of that of a fighter. So I get it they hit more often the casters so that means they make good fighters who actually hit better then rouges, unless they are a Mr. Gimpy build then the fighter can only hit with Greater Heroism and Bard songs.
    1. I have 3 clerics , 4 bards, 3 fighters, 1 Pali, 1 Wiz, 1 Sorc, and 1 rogue. So I can speak from all points per say.
    2. Clerics can be dps have a BC that after heals his round grabs his holy burst siver greataxe and jumps on in with over 400 hp and 150+ point crits fits right in there if a second round needed. I also have a deathpriest type who heals takes his turn then if neeeded takes another turn. So people saying clerics shouldn't melee are full of BS if built for it do it. OMG that's called thinking outside the box!!!
    3. Bards comments I have read about bards not meleeing is funniest thing have heard in a long time. My favorite bard stands toe to toe with the fiend better than most fighters that I know hits like a freight train (140-160 1 handed crits) has 400+ hp and evasion and survives longer and takes less damage than alot of tanks out there. Have a CC bard to who sits back and heals or helps top off heal in shrouds no way he taking a weap to the fiend. Again it is all in the build if can do it do it do it. Bards are as good of melees as fighters or better at times. Again think outside the box
    3.Rogues can do as much damage with backstab and normal damage as a barb can do. My rogue who is a strength based assasin build using heavy picks does major damage to the fiend and any others out there seen crits just weap and backstab combined in the low 200 area. Evasion, high dps, and omg decent hp if built with that in mind mine has 381 hp and doesn't take much damage but gives it out. Again think outside the box!!!
    4. As far as comments on fighters having egos everyone does from the cleric to the fighter. A fighter is exactly what it's name is a fighter they fight. They swing there weapons to kill things that is there job. There are others that range and intim and do other things that is there build. Think outside the box!!
    5. There are many different tactics that can be used in the shroud to come out on top. It is all in what the person forming the party wants if don't like don't join period don't come wining on the forums about better tactics than what 90% of the game use. Me personally want to get in and get out the faster the better.

    Think outside the box and maybe you might see that the icon doesn't just mean they are this and can't do this. People that say that is what you are that is all you can do are ignorant and need to get heads out of the sand and watch and see what others are capable of with there builds.
    Proud Officer of The Madborn

  9. #49
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aranticus View Post
    thats where the conflict arises. others like to play it smarter AND faster
    Love this comment!!
    Proud Officer of The Madborn

  10. #50
    Community Member sjwalker1973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Show_me_the_Platinum View Post
    Wow you must run with all the good bards and clerics. I get the bards who think they can DPS and the clerics are always running out of spell points (all three of them).

    Though I do see one point of dropping him fast. I wouldn't want to spend to much time actually playing the game.

    If you don't want to spend that much time playing this game why do you log on?

    In paper and pencil do you only spend 14-15 minutes in a session where your party starts off and finishes?

    P.S. this pics for all you Mr. Gimpies out there Mr. Gimpiy



    But wont it do more damage to have the clerics up there meleeing him if you think DPS is important. I level 16 cleric gets as many attacks as a rouge or bard and they can have green steel weapons on par with everyone and feats such as two weapon fighting
    You forget your place in the raid group mechanic. It's one thing being in a group where you know everyone and everyone is self sufficient. It's a totally different animal being in a PUG. Unless you tell the raid leader that you're a battle cleric, most assume that you will help heal in the important battles and pay attention. Unfortunately many battle clerics in the game do not keep an eye on the health bars and assume another cleric is healing when there might be some other thing going on that they have to worry about, like keeping a caster alive.
    Kirwin Hansel - Human Cleric
    Eloric Foecleaver - Dwarven Barbarian

  11. #51
    Community Member sjwalker1973's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=P.S. P.S. What's up with rouges anyway? They think that they can DPS when they get NO combat related feats. I mean I could see if they got two weapon fighting, or maybe weapon specialization, but they just think that sneak attack damage means they are a front line fighter. I mean come on they get 6 HP a level to a fighter's 10 and they don't even have that good of a to hit bonus. 3/4 of a fighter is the same as a clerics, and don't bards have the same thing? Wait I know. They are front line fighters for battle wizards and battle sorcerers who have a 1/2 to hit of that of a fighter. So I get it they hit more often the casters so that means they make good fighters who actually hit better then rouges, unless they are a Mr. Gimpy build then the fighter can only hit with Greater Heroism and Bard songs.[/QUOTE]

    You do know other than a barbarian, the rogue can be one of the best DPS based classes in the game if built correctly? Yes they can be squishy if they don't build them right, but they can also hit like heck. They can't sustain it like a front line fighter, but they can dish it out for a bit. With the right equipment and feat combinations, rogues can be dangerous.
    Kirwin Hansel - Human Cleric
    Eloric Foecleaver - Dwarven Barbarian

  12. #52
    Community Member Nick_RC's Avatar
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    Bring out the noobs.
    GROAN-1 (Melee/Casting Horc FVS)

  13. #53
    Community Member halls's Avatar
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    I'm all for the zerj
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  14. #54

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    There are certain things some people may never understand.





    BTW Nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andora View Post
    A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.~Proverbs 18:2 .
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  15. #55
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rizzn View Post
    Dude, I came to this thread waaaaay late, but i gotta say, you are in fact the most ignorant person I have ever ran across on these boards. You take the cake as biggest jackass. Period.

    Lets look at what a rogue brings to the table shall we. Well, over 300 hp's, Improved evasion, mid 30's reflex save (at the lowest), self healing, self buffs, and w/ only a little effort low 60's ac. Oh yeah, +8d6 sneak attack damage, in addition to base weapon damage and effects, plus strength, oh and damage enhancements. Yeah, totally worthless. I mean, they take less damage than your "fighters" and deal more damage than your "fighters". Maybe you should remove your head from your rectum before you make statements like this. Just because its beyond your level of comprehension to play one of the most difficult classes in the game, or just because you cant think outside the box and make a non flavor of the month build work doesnt mean the rest of us are likewise impaired.
    **** rogues, you gimp. Go respec your toon. Wait, what thread is this?

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjwalker1973 View Post
    You do know other than a barbarian, the rogue can be one of the best DPS based classes in the game if built correctly? Yes they can be squishy if they don't build them right, but they can also hit like heck. They can't sustain it like a front line fighter, but they can dish it out for a bit. With the right equipment and feat combinations, rogues can be dangerous.
    correction, rogues outDPS barbarians without really even trying.

  17. #57
    Community Member rezo's Avatar
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    I think I shouldn't post anything any more just look at what happens. I would like my thread back plx.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    No one that throws together a bunch of numbers and calls it fact is going to give you and real accurate answer, there's too many variables and it's all biased towards there own personal outlooks on how it should be, not how it is. Numbers are too easy to manipulate.
    So sad but true.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    correction, rogues outDPS barbarians without really even trying.
    So true.

    Rogues dual-wielding muckbanes can out-dps mineral 2 greataxe-wielding barbarians.

    Oh, and they're not even #2 on the dps list. They're looking up at rangers also.

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    I think I shouldn't post anything any more just look at what happens. I would like my thread back plx.
    If you want to know why...

  20. #60
    Community Member Kiranselie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunga View Post
    **** rogues, you gimp. Go respec your toon. Wait, what thread is this?
    Gunga, just because I'm better than you in everyway imaginable doesnt mean you have to go get all ****y
    I've got my affairs in order for the coming zombie apocalypse, do you?

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