Here's the problem with Refuge crafting... It's the worst of all worlds...

It requires reflagging. Loot is bound. No 20th end-reward.

The Shroud mechanic is the best, because it doesn't require reflagging, there is a 20th end-reward, and loot is not bound. This is very important....

If I'm working on a item for my barbarian, I can run all 6 of my capped characters through the Shroud and collect ingrediants... Here is why this is good... My experience in the Shroud is very different if I'm playing my cleric or my wizard or my bard or ranger or my barbarian. After 200+ runs, I'm still not tired of the Shroud (Well, maybe Part 1)

Even if my cleric has all the Shroud loot he wants, he continues to run the Shroud (helping others run it as well) to collect ingrediants for my other characters.

This is why it is easy to find a Shroud group.


If I'm working on an item for my barbarian in any other raid, I have to run my barbarian through that raid over and over and over...

That's boring... And my cleric or wizard NEVER run that raid once they get their item(s) because there's no need anymore.

Also the Shroud and other raids have a 20th completion reward... So even if you've run Titan again and nothing dropped... at LEAST you got one more completion and you're closer to seeing that raid loot list.

Then you have that Refuge... You have to reflag, loot is bound, and if you roll the dice and get Improved Combustion VIII once again on your barbarian, you feel like you completely wasted the last 45 minutes (plus now you have to reflag). No 20th completion to look forward to... Less groups because once my cleric has his armor, he stops running it.

Reaver Refuge crafting is the worst of all grinds in the game.

Edit: FYI - I LOVE all the quests out there... Great design. The reward system is terrible.