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  1. #41
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    this capstone it beautiful, and utilitarian. I wish all the capstones had this kind of simplistic positive effect.
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  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    You forgot the cleric capstone, who is as underwhelming.

    Upon further thoughts, this capstone is fine as Tempest I is, when you look at it. The problem with Tempest is that the two extremities should be weakened in order to boost Tempest II (so that might affect this capstone at the same moment). I'll have to run the numbers to see what would be decent suggestions but all in all it might not be that bad.

    As you've said, though, the two most obvious fixes are the rogue and ranger capstone.

    If Eladrin is sure to keep Master of Archer, then I'd suggest he drops the bonus to 12.5-15%. That would bring balance in a EO module like M9 seems to be and the later addition of AA/Sniper will restore balance whenever we are not in a module where 85%+ of mobs do not share the same creature type.
    Regarding the Cleric capstone I only left it out on the off chance that certain quests in mod 9 may lend themselves heavily to this being a huge benefit. I think content may drive whether that capstone has any value in the end. Might be wishful thinking. But that's for another thread...

    The more I think about it, the more I like this capstone. A pure defender can now get a dps boost but sacrifice some of the splash benefits. Same with a Kensai. When looking at fighter in a vacuum, I think the relationship between capstone and splash (up to 6 levels) options works fairly well.

    I'd love to see a pure fighter ranged build with power attack applied to ranged (im over interpreting that prereq in the bow strength feat probably), bow strength as a feat per Eladrins post, and now this and see how it stacks up vs the full level ranger. If its more on a non-favored enemy, but less than a favored enemy, then that's not too bad. But it still means every other class is hosed on it.

    Hmmm...unless maybe they gave sneak attack unlimited range...

    Overall, Im pretty happy with this one, and think they did a solid job on Pally, Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard, Barb, and now Fighter. Cleric is likely lacking but still has an outside chance of being ok. Monk I dont play so cant comment. Rogue capstone seems pointless, and the Ranger capstone is like finally getting your hurting tooth pulled...only to find out they arent going to give you painkillers during or after the procedure.
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  3. #43
    Community Member Yaga_Nub's Avatar
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    Nothing needs to get fixed. 10% for this is fine. Ranger capstone is fine. Who cares about the Rogues. They can all hop on a pike for all I care. Clerics are powerful enough as it is.

    Now give us Mod 9!
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathseeker View Post
    The more I think about it, the more I like this capstone.
    Like I said, I have nothing against this capstone. I think it is the reasonable response to Tempest and Evasion.

    The problem I have with Tempest's benefits being polarized to the two extremities. It is both front-loaded and back-loaded at the same time but two wrongs do not make one right (which is something I think you agree with). I'll have to take out the calculator and run some numbers first, though.

    If anything happens to Tempest I, this capstone might need to get tweaked as well.

    That's all I am saying.
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  5. #45
    Community Member Yaga_Nub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Like I said, I have nothing against this capstone. I think it is the reasonable response to Tempest and Evasion.

    The problem I have with Tempest's benefits being polarized to the two extremities. It is both front-loaded and back-loaded at the same time but two wrongs do not make one right (which is something I think you agree with). I'll have to take out the calculator and run some numbers first, though.

    If anything happens to Tempest I, this capstone might need to get tweaked as well.

    That's all I am saying.
    Why are you saying it?

    There's been no announcement about Tempest changing on the front end. E's already posted what Tempest is going to be.

    But even more than that, this isn't a response to Tempest. Do you REALLY think that E made this one just because of the tempest enhancement? If he really gave a sh*t about that he would have caved a long time ago. This capstone has nothing to do with a response to any other class.
    Characters - Brion, Damerchant, Deathbot, Goode-, Minusten, Sepiriz, Spiritstrike, Stee, Steilh, Vorpaal, Wyllye, Yaga, Yagalicious, Yga. RIP - Catpizzle and Qazpe
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaga Nub View Post
    This capstone has nothing to do with a response to any other class.
    Oh really? How can you conclude that?
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  7. #47
    Community Member Yaga_Nub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Oh really? How can you conclude that?
    The same way you concluded that it was.
    Characters - Brion, Damerchant, Deathbot, Goode-, Minusten, Sepiriz, Spiritstrike, Stee, Steilh, Vorpaal, Wyllye, Yaga, Yagalicious, Yga. RIP - Catpizzle and Qazpe
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Oh really? How can you conclude that?
    probably because the developers knew what this capstone would be when they released tempest I

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaga Nub View Post
    The same way you concluded that it was.
    You assumed that Eladrin cares about balance and values character customization?

    Maybe you should revisit your logic.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    probably because the developers knew what this capstone would be when they released tempest I
    Wow. Talk about planning! Eladrin thought about fighter capstone over a year before he even released it and did not change his mind!

    It's quite possible that the concept of capstone was not even on his mind when he created Tempest I.
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  11. #51
    Community Member Mirta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    With this preview, we've completed our pass through the various prestige enhancement lines and capstones.

    Fighters are the most versatile of our martial classes, and in Module Nine we've given them ways to express themselves as the master of a single weapon style through the Kensai, or a defensive bulwark that protects the party as a Stalwart Defender. Their capstone is tied to the thought that while a paladin has their faith and a ranger is tied to the wild, mastery of weapons is what fighters strive for.

    Fighter Weapon Alacrity
    Prereqs: Fighter level 20
    Cost: 2 Action Points
    Benefit: Your mastery with all weapons is such that you are able to attack faster than normal. Grants a 10% Competence bonus to attack speed with all combat styles.

    The Ranger may be faster with a bow (or specialize to be an equal with you with two weapons), and the Thief-Acrobat or Monk may wield a staff with greater speed, they all fall apart when forced from their specialized combat styles. Bow, great weapon, shield... It doesn't matter to a well trained fighter. The Kensai will still obviously prefer their chosen weapon, but will be no slouch with another style.

    As with all of the previews, this capstone is subject to change before it goes live.
    So what you're saying is it's still better to splash 6 levels of ranger with 1 level of rogue and 13 of anything else to be better than a fighter in every way? Done.

    Seriously, though? Is this the best fighters can get? Make it 20% MINIMUM. Maybe 30% would ungimp them.
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  12. #52
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    Seems reasonable

    Ranger Capstone is still broken, drop it to 15%

    Rogue Capstone needs dramatic improvement

    Cleric Capstone is underwhelming

    Bard is powerful but due to game design is underwhelming

    I'm still concerned about the balance of these over all


    Fighter is nice
    Barb is decent
    Sorceror is decent though appears underwhelming due to content (balance mMobs a little and it will be good)
    Wizard isn't bad
    Monk... well I sorta like it
    Paladin is good




    About what I was expecting for Fighter ... Not bad

    This actually seems a good scale

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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesop View Post
    Bard is powerful but due to game design is underwhelming
    Do you mean immunities?
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Do you mean immunities?
    Mostly.

    Immunity to most ...if not all Enchantment Spells makes a large chunk of the good parts of the Capstone nigh useless

    Aesop
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesop View Post
    Immunity to most ...if not all Enchantment Spells makes a large chunk of the good parts of the Capstone nigh useless
    Not the capstone, playing a non-warchanter bard. If you play a CC/healer bard, that is the best capstone for you.

    The problem is that playing that kind of bard is not really good, but of itself, going pure is a solid choice for both warchanters and spellsingers.
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  16. #56
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    Default Contradictory

    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    The Ranger may be faster with a bow (or specialize to be an equal with you with two weapons)
    That statement conflicts with an earlier announcement:
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    Ranger Tempest III
    Benefit: Your skill with two weapons is unequaled - your training has turned you into a whirling tempest of steel, granting a 10% competence bonus to dual wield attack speed, a +4 shield bonus to armor class when two weapon fighting, your penalty to hit has been reduced by 2, and you gain additional attacks when two weapon fighting.
    The additional attacks gained at tier III are identical to what we originally had planned for (the not-in-the-game) Superior Two Weapon Fighting.
    Those two announcements can't both be true. Either this thread is correct and Fighter20 gets the same TWF speed as Ranger20, or the earlier thread is correct and Tempest3 grants an extra attack hook that Fighters have no way to get.

    An alternative interpretation would be that mod 9 offers some other way to get an extra TWF attack without taking Tempest 3. Maybe Superior TWF would be added as a feat (relying on a constrained interpretation of what "not-in-the-game" means), or maybe GTWF provides it to anyone with 23 naked dexterity and BAB20.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    Bow, great weapon, shield... It doesn't matter to a well trained fighter. The Kensai will still obviously prefer their chosen weapon, but will be no slouch with another style.
    This conflicts with the current design of fighters, who are masters at specializing with a specific weapon

    Most of fighters power comes from:
    • Weapon Specialization: <type>
    • Fighter <weapon> Specialization I
    • Greater Weapon Specialization: <type>
    • Fighter <weapon> Specialization II
    • (possibly) Superior Weapon Specialization: <type>

    If the intended goal is versatility, regardless of the style, then maybe the restriction should be loosened.

    The problem is that it would be less fitting with Kensai, though...
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galacticus View Post
    now change the capstone on rangers for the melee too and we'll love you again. I promise


    You melee rangers have enough for now already although I will say the bone they did toss us ranged rangers was a little overly meaty

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  19. #59
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    Alot of chatter from folks but not alot of number cranking. Lets see a comparison..
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Alot of chatter from folks but not alot of number cranking. Lets see a comparison..
    Not really in the mood to compile all the base damage, if you want to do that part for me I can tell you the DPS of each build.
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