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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    That statement conflicts with [url=http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168667]

    Maybe Superior TWF would be added as a feat (relying on a constrained interpretation of what "not-in-the-game" means), or maybe GTWF provides it to anyone with 23 naked dexterity and BAB20.
    Per the SRD
    "Superior Two-Weapon Fighting [General] [Fighter]
    You have reached the limits of the two-weapon fighting style.
    Prerequisites: Dex 21, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +16.
    Benefit: You get a forth attack with your off-hand weapon, albeit at a -15 penalty.
    Special: A ranger who chose the two-weapon fighting combat style can select this feat, even if he does not have a high enough Dexterity for it (though the other prerequisites must be met). But he can only use this feat when he is wearing light or no armor."

    21 dex not 23 and 16 bab not 20
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  2. #62
    Founder xberto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteeleTrueheart View Post
    Rangers will still be better are TWF and Ranged since thier capstone gives ranged alacrity of 25% and their PrC gives them this 10% bonus for TWF AND Superior TWF feat for free. Level 20 Fighters will have to be able to select STWF as a feat to be able to equal a Level 18 Ranger in weapon speed/number of attacks.
    Not to argue your point about a ranger making a better TWF but Rangers dont get those feats for free, they are just automatic. Fighters just get a choice.

  3. #63
    Founder Aesop's Avatar
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    Not really on topic per se... but


    I know everyone will hate this but since rangers Favored Enemies are all treated as Maximum Favored Enemies instead of a tiered effect. Wouldn't it make sense to lower the over all bonus. Instead of +2 for each FE maybe make the first aquisition a +2 and the rest improve the pool by +1.

    So instead of at level 20 having a +10 (+Enhancements) instead you have a +6 (+ Enhancements)

    I mean in PnP you'd have havea total of +2 to each and 8 more to spread around a little so 18 points over all across 5 FE. With the way it is you have 50. With my suggestion you have 30 still an improvement ... but not so much

    Aesop
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  4. #64
    Community Member Yaga_Nub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesop View Post
    Not really on topic per se... but


    I know everyone will hate this but since rangers Favored Enemies are all treated as Maximum Favored Enemies instead of a tiered effect. Wouldn't it make sense to lower the over all bonus. Instead of +2 for each FE maybe make the first aquisition a +2 and the rest improve the pool by +1.

    So instead of at level 20 having a +10 (+Enhancements) instead you have a +6 (+ Enhancements)

    I mean in PnP you'd have havea total of +2 to each and 8 more to spread around a little so 18 points over all across 5 FE. With the way it is you have 50. With my suggestion you have 30 still an improvement ... but not so much

    Aesop
    I love my rangers and hate to think about take-aways from any class but IMHO this is a good suggestion.
    Characters - Brion, Damerchant, Deathbot, Goode-, Minusten, Sepiriz, Spiritstrike, Stee, Steilh, Vorpaal, Wyllye, Yaga, Yagalicious, Yga. RIP - Catpizzle and Qazpe
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  5. #65
    Community Member Grenfell's Avatar
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    Good capstone for those who "stayed pure".

    Haven't seen a stronger reason for full character respec than this capstone though.

    Back in Mod-1 days, it was extremely common to see people splash 1 lvl of Paladin/Ranger to a fighter to get wand usage. When the cap was 10, it made a lot of sense. There was no intent to be something other than a Fighter -- people just wanted a little self-healing flexibility. Quite smart, actually.

    That's three years ago, folks, and there was no way that anyone could have predicted that three years later, their main, beloved 28-pt Fighter with every piece of raidloot, +3 tomes across the board, and so on would automatically be 10% worse in DPS than someone who didn't splash for wand usage.

    We're not talking 6-Ranger blends, or 4-pal/8-fighter/2-rogue type of builds where the intent was clearly to create a new custom build.

    So on the one hand, good capstone for Fighters (though it certainly pushes things to more of a cookie-cutter world); on the other hand, Full Respec is becoming more and more necessary.

    /gren

  6. #66
    Community Member Xaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteeleTrueheart View Post
    Rangers will still be better are TWF and Ranged since thier capstone gives ranged alacrity of 25% and their PrC gives them this 10% bonus for TWF AND Superior TWF feat for free. Level 20 Fighters will have to be able to select STWF as a feat to be able to equal a Level 18 Ranger in weapon speed/number of attacks.
    ok so tempest gives stwf and 10 % speed for dual, and the ac... fighters have this capstone.. gives them the 10%... they have kensai.... and you want to give them stwf to... ok so.. you want fighters to have tempest and kensai available pretty much right.... umm.... dude.... yeah fighters with the capstone alone just got a major bone (and i dont wanna hear about having to be lev 20 for it, since people are talkina bout the ranger capstone blah blah blah... rangers gotta be 20 for it not 18/2... which means 7 feats.. no the what 16 or 17 a pure fighter will get... get over yourself.. fighters primary ability was always their extra feats... now extra feats and nearly as good if not going to be better then tempest rangers iwth capstone and kensai.... please everyone... remember when moaning about fighters... how many flipin feats they get.. this is the biggest perk of being a fighter, no one else gets thatmany, not even close.

  7. #67
    Community Member Cold_Stele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaxx View Post
    ... get over yourself.. fighters primary ability was always their extra feats... now extra feats and nearly as good if not going to be better then tempest rangers iwth capstone and kensai.... please everyone... remember when moaning about fighters... how many flipin feats they get.. this is the biggest perk of being a fighter, no one else gets thatmany, not even close.
    /sigh this old line again.

    Feats are next to irrelevant in DDO - firstly because a pure Ranger or Barb can get all if not most of the good ones, but secondly because it's the enhancement system that governs how effective your toon is.

    So a Ftr can pick Power Attack, but there's no Ftr PA enhancement.

    Ftr can take Dodge, Mobility, SA but there's no Tempest.

    Ftr can take GTWF but there's no STWF.

    Bizzarely Ftr's get Ftr Toughness, even though Toughness ISN'T a Ftr bonus feat?

    Those extra Ftr feats would only be meaningful if the enhancement system further added to them (as, to be fair, has been done a little with Ftr's Weapon Mastery).

    It's like Rage and FE - they wouldn't be nearly as powerful as they are now without the enhancements.

    Oh btw - add up the feats Barbs and Rgrs are granted and compare that to the number Ftrs get...

  8. #68
    Founder negative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    With this preview, we've completed our pass through the various prestige enhancement lines and capstones.

    Fighters are the most versatile of our martial classes, and in Module Nine we've given them ways to express themselves as the master of a single weapon style through the Kensai, or a defensive bulwark that protects the party as a Stalwart Defender. Their capstone is tied to the thought that while a paladin has their faith and a ranger is tied to the wild, mastery of weapons is what fighters strive for.

    Fighter Weapon Alacrity
    Prereqs: Fighter level 20
    Cost: 2 Action Points
    Benefit: Your mastery with all weapons is such that you are able to attack faster than normal. Grants a 10% Competence bonus to attack speed with all combat styles.

    The Ranger may be faster with a bow (or specialize to be an equal with you with two weapons), and the Thief-Acrobat or Monk may wield a staff with greater speed, they all fall apart when forced from their specialized combat styles. Bow, great weapon, shield... It doesn't matter to a well trained fighter. The Kensai will still obviously prefer their chosen weapon, but will be no slouch with another style.

    As with all of the previews, this capstone is subject to change before it goes live.
    Meh. I don't even know how to feel about this. I"m too exhusted from the ranger capstone discussion. I want to say I don't like it but I don't have the energy to even think about it.

    And I still don't know if my stalwart defender should stay pure or not.
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  9. #69
    Developer Eladrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    Those two announcements can't both be true. Either this thread is correct and Fighter20 gets the same TWF speed as Ranger20, or the earlier thread is correct and Tempest3 grants an extra attack hook that Fighters have no way to get.
    You've found a flaw in my flavor text. Fighter 20 and Tempest III Ranger 20's will both have the same attack speed, which is what I was thinking of when I wrote that, but it is true that the Tempest will have an advantage in number of attacks processed during that attack sequence. I'll edit my original post.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    You've found a flaw in my flavor text. Fighter 20 and Tempest III Ranger 20's will both have the same attack speed, which is what I was thinking of when I wrote that, but it is true that the Tempest will have an advantage in number of attacks processed during that attack sequence. I'll edit my original post.
    Eladrin, you do realize none of the rest of us will admit an error and revise a post, right? What kind of precedent are you setting? Will we all now have to act with civility, reasonableness and humility?

    Nah, probably not...but nice attempt to lead by example...
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    You've found a flaw in my flavor text. Fighter 20 and Tempest III Ranger 20's will both have the same attack speed, which is what I was thinking of when I wrote that, but it is true that the Tempest will have an advantage in number of attacks processed during that attack sequence. I'll edit my original post.
    Unheard of. Turn on your PM's for incoming hate mail. jk

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grenfell View Post
    That's three years ago, folks, and there was no way that anyone could have predicted that three years later, their main, beloved 28-pt Fighter with every piece of raidloot, +3 tomes across the board, and so on would automatically be 10% worse in DPS than someone who didn't splash for wand usage.

    /gren
    Anyone and everyone familiar with D&D and everyone I played with were aware of level 20 capstones and they said that is why they never splashed anything else.

    You'll never convince me that people who splashed weren't aware of they fact they may lose out on a good capstone.

    No respec, sorry about your luck, reroll. (Rerolling is the beauty of this game)

  13. #73

    Default Sorry...

    But given all of the other advantages provided with just 6 lvls of ranger for Tempest I, I don't think that a 10% increase in attack speed for staying pure all the way to 20 is really adequate.

    Tempest I gets me 10% attack speed, plus 2 AC, plus wand usage, and ram's might. Or I go all the way to fighter 20 sucking down pots and cash to get that same 10%?

    Sorry guys. It should be 15% so if you have lived the pain of staying pure it really is something unique to your build/class. And it should stack with everything...

  14. #74
    Community Member Hadrian's Avatar
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    Great. I was considering making a pure offensive fighter when this mod came out, but without the 10% melee alacrity, kensai III was vastly inferior to tempest I. This capstone is what was required to make going pure fighter ever make sense.

    I am glad that they saw that.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by doNotWantYo View Post
    Anyone and everyone familiar with D&D and everyone I played with were aware of level 20 capstones and they said that is why they never splashed anything else.

    You'll never convince me that people who splashed weren't aware of they fact they may lose out on a good capstone.

    No respec, sorry about your luck, reroll. (Rerolling is the beauty of this game)
    Sorry, this is wrong. Anyone and everyone familiar with D&D knows capstones don't exist in DnD, and that they are a feature of DDO exclusively.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by doNotWantYo View Post
    Anyone and everyone familiar with D&D and everyone I played with were aware of level 20 capstones and they said that is why they never splashed anything else.
    Ha ha... in D&D there's no Fighter capstone at level 20.

  17. #77

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    Now give fighters the ability to select the bow strength feat and that may help fix the bow issue. (and fix the fighter haste to give 30% instead of 15%)

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by smyter View Post
    Now give fighters the ability to select the bow strength feat and that may help fix the bow issue. (and fix the fighter haste to give 30% instead of 15%)
    I suppose you missed my post about the selectable bow strength feat? It's in consideration.

  19. #79
    Community Member Cold_Stele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doNotWantYo View Post
    Anyone and everyone familiar with D&D and everyone I played with were aware of level 20 capstones and they said that is why they never splashed anything else.

    You'll never convince me that people who splashed weren't aware of they fact they may lose out on a good capstone.

    No respec, sorry about your luck, reroll. (Rerolling is the beauty of this game)
    Well, apart from the completely false info on the capstones...

    Wow, what a great suggestion - can you think of any other ways to punish players for rolling toons without having the power to look into the future

  20. #80
    Community Member frederjoe1's Avatar
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    Default Just a thought

    I know that two handed fighting is not the norm out there due to lower dps but doesn't this give a nice bump to 2HF for fighters out there as well. That is something that rangers cannot get this kinda helps close the gap they were experienceing.

    just a thought
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