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  1. #1
    Brand / Commerce Manager Tolero's Avatar
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    Default Welcome Builders!

    Welcome to the Character Builds forum! Gather together with other aspiring character builders to map out your character's path to success in DDO!

    Need help with your character building efforts? Be sure to check out these great resources!

    Official From Turbine

    • Paths: These pre-created character builds, called "Paths", are already ready to play! Built into the game, all you need to do is select a path and talk with your trainer to stay on the path!


    Great Player Created Resources

    • Character Planner: Need help with long-term planning for your character? Not certain which feats to take? Unsure about which abilities to pick? Let the character planner help show you the way!
    • DDOWiki: Founded in December of 2006, the DDOWiki is filled with information contributed by fellow players regarding DDO. From help guides, to updates, and other information, the DDOWiki is a great resource!
    • Offline Enhancement Builder: Not quite sure of which enhancements to take? The Offline Enhancement Builder offers great advice about enhancements, and features planning tools as well!
    • Respec made easy: web-based enhancement builder: Another great resource regarding enhancements, the web-based enhancement builder can be used in any browser.
    • Request a Build - Get a Build: Know what you want your character to end up like, but have no idea how to make it happen? Sigtrent and Lifespawn are in the kitchen cooking up builds made-to-order!
    Last edited by Tolero; 10-07-2013 at 04:43 PM.

  2. #2
    Brand / Commerce Manager Tolero's Avatar
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    Default

    currently the thread ratings don't seem to be functioning properly, will look into this in the morning.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    In some categories, the template is missing. In the others, it is making my eyes bleed and is poorly constructed...

    Oh, and friendly advise, don't encourage players to post their characters on a wiki. It is a recipe to disaster.
    DDOwiki.com, #1 source for DDO information.

  4. #4
    Brand / Commerce Manager Tolero's Avatar
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    Default

    Forum ratings should now be working, enjoy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    In some categories, the template is missing.
    Some of the categories have no template yet because I was going to leave that to user creativity. There's more than one way to make a page layout; templates are more just for users who don't have wiki know-how to lay out their page the way they want.
    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0
    In the others, it is making my eyes bleed and is poorly constructed...
    Oh, and friendly advise, don't encourage players to post their characters on a wiki. It is a recipe to disaster.
    We have enough talented players out there that I'm not overly concerned with it. In many cases the format that all of you use here on the forums makes MY eyes bleed "matters of taste are not for dispute". Ultimately it can be better than the forum listings due to
    A) We never prune the compendium. While we don't prune the builds forum either, it's one extra place to store the info.
    B) You can have a more creative format than bbcode allows. Between wiki tables, html tags, etc, you can make some very pretty pages.
    C) Placing the build pages in categories makes it easier to look for a particular type of build, rather than sifting through forum threads, or trying to play with forum search in the hopes that I get a thread related to what I'm looking for (from personal experience trying to search through the boards looking for a build for my character, it was way more effort than I was willing to spend. If I don't want to do that, I wouldn't expect a user to want to do that either).

    Everyone has their own 'style' for how they like to present their build, or how they like to read their builds too. There are as many tastes for that as there are builds to make, so I don't think you'll ever find one style that EVERYONE will like universally. And as it says in the template headers, if you don't like the template options, feel free to create your own! (btw your parsers are coming in the next compendium update, so the template you made should work fine, feel free to link it up in the templates so others can use it if they like it). The categories etc can be edited, so go play and have fun, I can't wait to see what people come up with!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Some of the categories have no template yet because I was going to leave that to user creativity.
    Oh, that's fine, but you should elaborate more on what you'd want each category to be for.

    I don't get really what Forum Build Templates and Wiki Build Templates are for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    In many cases the format that all of you use here on the forums makes MY eyes bleed
    Oooohh, bluntness! Love that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Ultimately it can be better than the forum listings due to
    Not saying that they won't do better than the forum (the only advantage that the forums has is the discussion on the build that will follow and will often contain very pertinent information). What I am saying, here, is that allowing unexperienced users to create their character with a template is a lot of trouble.

    You can try to make it easy to use, but there is no guarantee. If you really want this to be any useful at all, you've got to either spend time fixing a lot of mistakes or you've got to come up with a very easy to use template, and fix the mistakes that will arise.

    We tried it on the wiki and results were not all that great.

    You have a very good point, though, in regards to builds. It'll be interesting to see how it will turn out. I'll give it a try once parsers are it. I'll try to come up eith templates for each section and see what happens. I'm more interested in the build section than the character section, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    We never prune the compendium. While we don't prune the builds forum either, it's one extra place to store the info.
    You don't prune the build forums? Nice. I didn't know that, but that's good to know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    You can have a more creative format than bbcode allows. Between wiki tables, html tags, etc, you can make some very pretty pages.
    True.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Placing the build pages in categories makes it easier to look for a particular type of build, rather than sifting through forum threads, or trying to play with forum search in the hopes that I get a thread related to what I'm looking for (from personal experience trying to search through the boards looking for a build for my character, it was way more effort than I was willing to spend. If I don't want to do that, I wouldn't expect a user to want to do that either).
    True. When I started, good builds were easy to find but it seems now that all the good builds are lost, buried at page 5 or something like that. If we could categorize them a bit, maybe we'd come up with something nice. Though, it would take a structure. Without structure, that plan would fail.

    I assume to leave that structure up to us?

    If so, we have to come up with something decent, quick.
    DDOwiki.com, #1 source for DDO information.

  6. #6
    Brand / Commerce Manager Tolero's Avatar
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    Oh yes indeed, everyone should feel free to get creative. I tried to set up a few categories just based on the way people have been putting builds in the forums, but however you all like have fun. You can edit them too, we just put in the basics to get people started.

    Based on what we already see around here, typically it seemed to boil down into:

    - Class
    - Race
    - Character goal/objectives/or however you want to say that. The "concept" of it.
    - Alignment was one last but less frequent area

    Of those:

    Race is very straight forward. You can't be multi-race, and the "halves" are defined as being their own group anyway.

    Class seems to usually involve people looking for a build that is "primarily" a certain class, but not always. Even though it might have splashes of other classes, from what I've seen, people have tended to always put them under a particular class forum. There are rare exceptions where a build is listed as being no one class, so "multiclass" is the catch all for that.

    Sometimes people look for builds based on alignment because of certain weapons or equipment they pulled, so that felt like a good category to have

    The trickiest one in my opinion has been the "Character Goal" categories. These are times where the build was based not on what the race or class was like "I want to be a warforged monk", but on what you want that character to do "I don't care what race/class I am as long as I am a really awesome trap springer" stuff like that. I tried to set up a few categories just based on very "common" seeming character goals that we see tossed around the boards a lot. I'm sure I missed some.

    The really nice thing about putting a build page in the wiki is that you can put it in multiple categories. It's always tough on the forums to go "oh no, technically I have levels of ranger but I'm not really a 'ranger' per say, do I put my build in the ranger forum?" In the wiki you can just put it in more than one category.

    Templates to me are less about "everyone do it my way" so much as "if you want your page to look like mine looks here's the skeleton". You can make a build page without using a template at all. Templates are more for if you'd like to share your build page style with others who might not be sure how you accomplished it

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    The trickiest one in my opinion has been the "Character Goal" categories.
    What about making goals sub-categories of race and class?

    For example, a few goals are:
    • DPS
    • Trapsmith
    • Intimitank
    • High AC
    • Pure/multiclass

    But, many have preferences toward a class or a race so we should try to adapt the categories to that reality as well, if possible. For example, one person may want a pure fighter WF intimitank or just a pure fighter or just a WF intimitank. Making it possible for categories to display the information in that manner would be helpful.

    Maybe I could come up with a template that allows that, but it will involve lots and lots of headaches. The easiest way to achieve that goal would be to use DPL2, and make some JavaScript (JavaScript can be used on wiki if the permission is given - obviously you restrict it to Turbine employees as there could be security issues otherwise) to transform into a search option. Maybe it even already exists, just never heard about it before.

    It'd save everyone a lot of headache and would make any template much less scary.

    Do you think it would be possible?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Templates to me are less about "everyone do it my way" so much as "if you want your page to look like mine looks here's the skeleton".
    Oh, that's fine, for as long as they share the same pattern to decide who belongs in what category.
    DDOwiki.com, #1 source for DDO information.

  8. #8
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    The new format seems very cool, but I do have a few questions.

    I noticed that you can only rate threads on the "Character builds" forum. Is this forum meant to be the new location of all character builds, regardless of class? Will that get cluttered and messy?

    Previously, most posters put their builds in the respective classes, so that searching for a rogue build, you could hit the rogue forums. I've always been a fan of the open forum medium because it promotes discussion - as a new player, it was hard to tell the difference between a poorly-conceived plan and a good one, and the discussion helped me learn some of the building norms.

    I have not spent much time browsing the compedium, due to how difficult it can be to navigate. Is the compendium meant to replace this old style of build discussion? How do you access others' builds in the compendium? Can they be rated and prioritized? Is there a place for comments and discussion about the build?

    Thanks for the information in this thread thusfar. I am looking to post more working builds and concept plans and want to make sure to conform to the new expectations for build posting.
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post
    I noticed that you can only rate threads on the "Character builds" forum. Is this forum meant to be the new location of all character builds, regardless of class? Will that get cluttered and messy?
    That's actually a very good question: where do we put our builds?

    As Anthio said, usually we search for a build of the right class by searching through its class forums. (The race could also be used, sometimes, but it is just an underused forum.) It avoids us the trouble to look into builds of classes that do not interest us. Posting, though, will avoid us the pain to browse over tons of questions about the class. In the end, it might be a win situation for as long as most people post their class in their title.

    But, it would be good to know how you want us to do it.

    Oh, by the way, the rate builds part is kinda cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post
    Is the compendium meant to replace this old style of build discussion?
    Clearly not. View it as another place to post your builds at, in a maybe nicer way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post
    How do you access others' builds in the compendium?
    You will be able to access them from this page, once new builds will be added.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post
    Can they be rated and prioritized?
    Nope, unless Turbine add an extension for that. Pretty unlikely, though, given how much time and trouble it took them to get the parsers go through (parser functions is a basic wiki extension, wiki lacking them are the exceptions rather than the rule and are often owned by people very little wiki knowledge) and they didn't even to code that one!

    It would be a nice addition, but it seems adding anything to the Compendium requires a lot of trouble.

    That's pretty sad, though. Bureaucracy for the loss.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post
    Is there a place for comments and discussion about the build?
    There could be one, but it would be silly to use it. Each wiki article has its own talk page where the article can be discussed. This is where we could discuss the build, if we'd want. It's not a very good medium to do so, though, since the talk page can be edited by everyone and they tend to look messy with time. Forums are much more appropriate for that.

    If I were to add a build to the Compendium, I'd also add a link to a forum thread where the build can be discussed.

    Wikis have a lot of strengths, but they cannot beat forums when it comes to discussion. Actually, if wikis could you anything, it would be better community tools.
    DDOwiki.com, #1 source for DDO information.

  10. #10
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    I hate to double post, but am still wondering where we are supposed to post builds. Class forums, build forums, or compendium? Thanks.
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  11. #11
    Community Member Daemonis's Avatar
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    Default Check out WF Build Compendium...

    Many of the forums best and brightest builders have tinkered with creation forges to craft innovative and powerful builds using the WF platform.
    Current Lineup: Daemonis, Jagannath, Dominari, Blaecgarde, Gardein, Nekromanteia.
    WF Build Compendium

  12. #12
    Community Member baddax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    What about making goals sub-categories of race and class?


    For example, a few goals are:
    • DPS
    • Trapsmith
    • Intimitank
    • High AC
    • Pure/multiclass
    But, many have preferences toward a class or a race so we should try to adapt the categories to that reality as well, if possible. For example, one person may want a pure fighter WF intimitank or just a pure fighter or just a WF intimitank. Making it possible for categories to display the information in that manner would be helpful.

    Maybe I could come up with a template that allows that, but it will involve lots and lots of headaches. The easiest way to achieve that goal would be to use DPL2, and make some JavaScript (JavaScript can be used on wiki if the permission is given - obviously you restrict it to Turbine employees as there could be security issues otherwise) to transform into a search option. Maybe it even already exists, just never heard about it before.

    It'd save everyone a lot of headache and would make any template much less scary.

    Do you think it would be possible?

    Oh, that's fine, for as long as they share the same pattern to decide who belongs in what category.
    What about a handicap symbol for the ever popular GIMP class?
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  13. #13
    Community Member werk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Great Player Created Resources

    [LIST][*]Character Planner: Need help with long-term planning for your character? Not certain which feats to take? Unsure about which abilities to pick? Let the character planner help show you the way!
    Is there an updated planner yet?

  14. #14
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by werk View Post
    Is there an updated planner yet?
    Updated with regard to what? The current planner build is 3.10, and supports level 20 and the Favored Soul class. It is essentially the final stable build for Mod 9. The next build will be a little while, as the planner codebase is getting a full overhaul.
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    DDO Character Planner (Version 04.25.03) (Preview Screenshot) - Now with Warlocky goodness!
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Welcome to the Character Builds forum! Gather together with other aspiring character builders to map out your character's path to success in DDO!

    Need help with your character building efforts? Be sure to check out these great resources!

    Official From Turbine

    • Path Directories: These pre-created character builds, called "Paths", are already ready to play! Built into the game, all you need to do is select a path and talk with your trainer to stay on the path! Use the Compendium to browse the existing paths, and use the paths for ideas on your own character builds!
    • Compendium Advanced Search: Looking for a feat for your fighter? Can't remember the name of that 8th level wizard enhancement? Trying to plan a character around a type of armor, but you don't remember the max dex bonus of +2 studded leather? Try advanced search! Find items, spells, feats, and enhancements! (Remember that the Compendium now features expanded item details!)


    Great Player Created Resources

    • Character Planner: Need help with long-term planning for your character? Not certain which feats to take? Unsure about which abilities to pick? Let the character planner help show you the way!
    • DDOWiki: Founded in December of 2006, the DDOWiki is filled with information contributed by fellow players regarding DDO. From help guides, to updates, and other information, the DDOWiki is a great resource!
    • Offline Enhancement Builder: Not quite sure of which enhancements to take? The Offline Enhancement Builder offers great advice about enhancements, and features planning tools as well!
    • Respec made easy: web-based enhancement builder: Another great resource regarding enhancements, the web-based enhancement builder can be used in any browser.
    • Request a Build - Get a Build: Know what you want your character to end up like, but have no idea how to make it happen? Sigtrent and Lifespawn are in the kitchen cooking up builds made-to-order!

    We'll also be on the look out for great player resources created in the Compendium in the Character Builds Category! Templates, existing builds, etc can be presented in the Character Builds category of the Compendium!
    Tolero, i'm disappointed that you didnt add my newbie template thread to this. while you are doing that, i'm on a new project "how i build my toons". hopefully, when players read it, they have an idea of what is good what not

    i have to disagree with the non pruning of character builds, if not, at least add a rating like the guide threads. its one thing allowing players to express their creativity, its another letting new players getting on the wrong track. many of the experienced builders can instantly see a doomed build. natural selection should take place
    If you want to know why...

  16. #16

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    The idea that a vet can instantly see a doomed build is kind of like a juror that can "just tell if someone is guilty."

    If it has not been tested, the only thing anyone can see are potential problems and things that the player should be careful of while playing. Even if it has been tested playstyles and group structures vary, so doomed may not mean the same in different situations. Anyone that thinks they can instantly see a doomed build should be looked on with same skepticism as the above juror.

    I look forward to seeing a lot of interesting ideas.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roziel_Longblade View Post
    The idea that a vet can instantly see a doomed build is kind of like a juror that can "just tell if someone is guilty."

    If it has not been tested, the only thing anyone can see are potential problems and things that the player should be careful of while playing. Even if it has been tested playstyles and group structures vary, so doomed may not mean the same in different situations. Anyone that thinks they can instantly see a doomed build should be looked on with same skepticism as the above juror.

    I look forward to seeing a lot of interesting ideas.
    to use a very simple example, any caster with 8 in the primary casting stat is a doomed build. doomed doesnt mean instant failure, that is the point you are missing
    If you want to know why...

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aranticus View Post
    to use a very simple example, any caster with 8 in the primary casting stat is a doomed build. doomed doesnt mean instant failure, that is the point you are missing
    Some vets will take things far beyond the extreme example listed above, and impose their own playstyle experiences into a pruning system. Putting any kind of pruning power in the hands of people who are ill equiped to be productively helpful, or use phrases like "the point you are missing" when pointing out the obvious, is a bad idea.

    Aranticus, you are a perfect example of why your requested pruning policy would be bad. Your self professed style of picking fights on the forums makes you the absolute worst choice of all vets to have an approved place helping new players. Being condescending and attacking on the forums to try to inspire anger because, as you say, and I quote, “Anger…can be a great source of self motivation” is not what new players come here seeking. I also doubt any company would want that to be the image of their brand. If DDO did, it would not be one that I or my friends would pay to play.

    Player pruning is a bad idea. The system looks good as it is so far.

  19. #19
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    Default Blank compendium

    Very often on the in-game chat panel I see requests for general build advice. Is there a one-stop page with a list of builds accessible to new players; that are not tome-dependent nor require farmed items? At the same time, it would be good for there to be links to expert builds related to the more basic ones. Still, that is not quite so essential; once a player has reviewed the basic newbie-friendly builds they would have a better idea of what to search for. The closest I can think of are the Cleric build catalogue and DDO Wiki's Newbie Guide.

    Ideally, the DDO Compendium section for character builds would do just this, but as of April 2010 it is blank.

    Perhaps some kind soul has compiled a thread which I can refer players to?

  20. #20
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    Post hi all

    hi all what i wanted to do was give you some ideas you can create some new charaters like dark elves and dekans for instance in rohan blood fued dekans are very populer and they get thousands and millions of people a day u should try it out it may be succesful

    ohh yeah and good luck
    Last edited by audain; 10-14-2010 at 08:49 AM.

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