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  1. #1441
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbnett View Post
    I came back to ddo a week ago havent played since update 2 or 3 and pulled out my explioter. They nerfed it into the ground than buried it. Kinda sad I loved this build it was my first and it had me hooked on TWF but until some changes are made this build is no longer competitive. Im just glad I go to use it when it was at its glory one of the best builds to hit the game for its time.
    An LR using some of the new info here will bring him back up to date. No, he won't be 'uber', but he can still be great.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  2. #1442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweyn View Post
    100% agree. At its prime, it was arguably the most potent build in the game. It was also the most fun toon i've ever played. It could literally do everything. Now it is useless compared to other builds or pure classes. It's kinda sad but it's best to leave this one as a memory and move on.
    Monk-splash was proxy nerfed, that's it. Armors are better now.

    ED cover much of the short-comings and there's a whole bunch of synergistic stuff certain EDs and twists that are wonderful.

    The build as it's displayed on page 1 is out-dated, the build how it evolved over the years (dumping CE for Maximize as a common example) is still very good. Two more feats and EDs add a ton. That and the CiTW loot almost feels like it was build for builds like this. My kensai cringes as there's no Khopesh in the raid, my ranger's not tied to a specific weapon types for getting bonuses. Dual-nightmares on a tempest III is just insanely good.
    Last edited by Ape_Man; 12-14-2012 at 12:08 AM.
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  3. #1443
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Personally, when I get around to TRing Wruntblender back into an exploiter (thinking of waiting until enhancement pass), I'm going fighter instead of monk and wearing armor. I doubt I'll get the AC for EE, but at the very least, I should be able to get enough AC for EH. Really depends on the enhancement pass, though, as to whether or not exploiter-esque builds really get a bump.

    As a side note, I'm planning to grab Combat Expertise again, as well as grabbing Maximize and Whirlwind Attack on my character, and looking forward to experimenting with a few of the CitW weapons on him (the rapiers and and shortswords would both be awesome).

    Does make me sad that I probably won't be tanking any of the really tough bosses in the game on a ranger anymore, though. :/
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  4. #1444
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Personally, when I get around to TRing Wruntblender back into an exploiter (thinking of waiting until enhancement pass), I'm going fighter instead of monk and wearing armor. I doubt I'll get the AC for EE, but at the very least, I should be able to get enough AC for EH. Really depends on the enhancement pass, though, as to whether or not exploiter-esque builds really get a bump.
    Armor is the way to go at this time, at least after level 20. I have a red-scale robe so I'll probably keep the Monk level next TR as handwraps as still a great option against undead.

    As a Sentienel I can break get about 100 AC with power-attack. But you're just way better off as a DPS with FoTW. 10% Incorporeal, blur, and 15% dodge is more than enough defense. It's good if you really want to be a Threat-magnet but it gimps your DPS.

    AC needed for EE content is about 130-140 (to-hits look to be about mob CRx3) and that's just for the easier EEs. On the higher-level stuff like the high-road forget it, you just get hit every shot.

    But that doesn't mean a tempest is lacking in defense. With light armor, Shield of WHirling steel, and Planar focus you're looking at enough PRR for about 20% damage mitigation. Mix in the dodge, incorporeal, and displacement scrolls/clickies and you'll be taking less damage than you used to in epics when the cap was 20.

    Let's not forget 300+ quickened CSW.

    If the monk-splash was the be-all and end-all of this build I'd concede it was dead but I don't believe that to be the case.


    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    As a side note, I'm planning to grab Combat Expertise again, as well as grabbing Maximize and Whirlwind Attack on my character, and looking forward to experimenting with a few of the CitW weapons on him (the rapiers and and shortswords would both be awesome).
    CE is a waste. Seriously, getting 110 AC over 100 doesn't matter. 20 PRR from the Improved CE twist . . . I cannot say it's good. Especially since the strongest ED is FoTW and you're gonna want to be raged.

    Take Maximize in it's place. For the epic feats take Quicken and Bastard Sword proficiency.

    Run CiTW until you get two Nightmares, two Balizardes, and a Pinion. This'll keep you busy for a while, took me 6 months

    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Does make me sad that I probably won't be tanking any of the really tough bosses in the game on a ranger anymore, though. :/
    Mine can still tank the same stuff it used to be able to tank and a few things that I wouldn't have considered at level 20. EH LOB sure. EE LOB no way in hell but he was a poor choice for even Normal LOB at the level 20 cap.

    New stuff? I know my toon's limitations and you have really strong bow-options (even on tempests) for those bosses that just hit insanely hard.

    I just know I wasn't soling epics on my "Exploiter" at the level 20 cap Now I can solo anything on EH and have done a few (easier) EEs solo. I just don't feel like it's been nerfed too much.

    Does it do as much damage as my Kensai? No. It is as powerful as my Pale Master? No.

    Was it at the level 20 cap? No. It's relative position of power is about the same. Upper-level of mediocre, not stellar at anything but decent at lots of stuff.
    Last edited by Ape_Man; 12-14-2012 at 08:56 AM.
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  5. #1445
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    donow how to say it........feels noobish as hell like a kid made it or something
    dragblood-khyber

  6. #1446
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by generalfoley View Post
    donow how to say it........feels noobish as hell like a kid made it or something
    Don't understand your post. Please elaborate.

  7. #1447
    Community Member ka0t1c1sm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by generalfoley View Post
    donow how to say it........feels noobish as hell like a kid made it or something
    You do realize this is a 4 year old post of a build that has been effected heavily by changes to Tempest and AC since its creation right?

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  8. #1448
    Community Member Mercureal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ka0t1c1sm View Post
    You do realize this is a 4 year old post of a build that has been effected heavily by changes to Tempest and AC since its creation right?

    Considering his only other 2 posts are a repeat of this comment in another build thread, and a necro of a thread that's almost 6 years old, I don't think overall awareness is high.
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  9. #1449
    Community Member exvanguard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by generalfoley View Post
    donow how to say it........feels noobish as hell like a kid made it or something
    wow - had a forum acct for a whole month and made 3 posts (and calling something noobish). please tell me this is just a bored vet trolling the boards

  10. #1450
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Not entirely a necro as multiple people are still active in this thread since the expansion & still play this build. It may not be overpowered anymore but still is a decent generalist these days (can't truly tank anymore but still getting traps, UMD, self-heals, etc with decent DPS).

    Our weekly static party has a Paladin Tank (ED:US), a true Trap-Monkey rogue (ED:SD), a full-retard-DPS Barbarian (ED:FoW), an Exploiter (ED:FoW), 2 Arcanes (DI,M) & a Healer (my Cleric in EA or US when not grinding fate points). Note: We added a seventh member as often we were missing 1-3 folk and now we are typically full or at most missing 1-2... Anyway, we are mostly dads with multiple other RL obligations so even though it is a static party each week the makeup can differ depending on who has a conflict... I can say without a doubt as the healer that runs without our Exploiter are harder and he does the best job at multi-roles (and fills in nicely when folk are missing) and outlasts our rogue & barbarian if things go south (he is typically our SS getter if we wipe). I think that with his decent Wisdom & Wild-Instincts he is even better than our true trap monkey at spotting danger which we value with all the Spell-Wards in MoTU & the High Road (we also like the extra trap bonus XP).

  11. #1451
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    Curious to see if anyone here plays Lama-land and has any insight on this build as it relates to the enhancement pass. Is it getting some additional life blown into it or is it another death by a thousand paper cuts style nerf. Don't worry. I still play my exploiter and enjoy him and haven' given up on him yet. With FoTW he does quite well and combined with manyshot I wish I'd build in some more ranged damage to see how far it can be pushed for burst damage.

  12. #1452
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbIe View Post
    Curious to see if anyone here plays Lama-land and has any insight on this build as it relates to the enhancement pass. Is it getting some additional life blown into it or is it another death by a thousand paper cuts style nerf. Don't worry. I still play my exploiter and enjoy him and haven' given up on him yet. With FoTW he does quite well and combined with manyshot I wish I'd build in some more ranged damage to see how far it can be pushed for burst damage.
    Worst case scenario (what we saw on Lamaland goes live, truely is "worst case" as what's on Lamaland is terrible) this build will still be fine.

    The lack of devotion is also pretty terrible but QA said that's being added back in.
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  13. #1453
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbIe View Post
    Curious to see if anyone here plays Lama-land and has any insight on this build as it relates to the enhancement pass. Is it getting some additional life blown into it or is it another death by a thousand paper cuts style nerf. Don't worry. I still play my exploiter and enjoy him and haven' given up on him yet. With FoTW he does quite well and combined with manyshot I wish I'd build in some more ranged damage to see how far it can be pushed for burst damage.
    I only spent a really short amount of time on lammania, so my judgment is probably off at least a bit. From what I can see of the enhancement changes, it looks like rangers have gotten better, deepwood sniper being there, the ability to take multiple prestige sets from one class is great for rangers imo. I think 20 ranger got a huge boost with these changes due to the new tempest capstone, so that might effect the exploiter. From what I'm hearing though, people are feeling the costs are too high, I'll come back with more once I'm good.

    EDIT: it should be noted I don't have any high level rangers, so I can't really measure what it is like.
    Last edited by the613; 04-15-2013 at 09:12 AM.

  14. #1454
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    Quote Originally Posted by the613 View Post
    I only spent a really short amount of time on lammania, so my judgment is probably off at least a bit. From what I can see of the enhancement changes, it looks like rangers have gotten better, deepwood sniper being there, the ability to take multiple prestige sets from one class is great for rangers imo. I think 20 ranger got a huge boost with these changes due to the new tempest capstone, so that might effect the exploiter. From what I'm hearing though, people are feeling the costs are too high, I'll come back with more once I'm good.
    You really can't invest heavily in the multiple trees as most of the goodies are in the upper tiers and stuff's way too expensive. Focus mainly on one and a few points dabbled here and there.

    Delving into too many details at this time is academic as it's gonna be changed soon and we'll have to give new feedback on these changes.

    The Tempest capstone is very interesting, it's actually really compelling. First off as a tempest you no longer need to splash to get haste boost. 25% off-hand double-strike is a lot of damage, more than the 1 rogue level will get you regarding DPS (especially if you're Helf). it's better than the Fighter Capstone.

    A helf 20 pure ranger is two feats down on a Human Exploiter . . . but you need fewer feats for the Tempest re-reqs.
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  15. #1455
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    The only way to really save my Ranger (though not an exploiter), is to rebuild as a dex based raprier/scimi. I'm loathe to ditch all my shiny Khops, but it feels like the best way to make the most of the current enh's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  16. #1456
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    The only way to really save my Ranger (though not an exploiter), is to rebuild as a dex based raprier/scimi. I'm loathe to ditch all my shiny Khops, but it feels like the best way to make the most of the current enh's.
    I don't understand why. You can still get way more STR than you can get DEX and DEX-builds just plain suck.
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  17. #1457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    I don't understand why. You can still get way more STR than you can get DEX and DEX-builds just plain suck.
    Besides the spurious 'dex builds suk' comment, I don't see how you figure one can get 'way' more str than dex. Explain?
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  18. #1458
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Besides the spurious 'dex builds suk' comment, I don't see how you figure one can get 'way' more str than dex. Explain?
    Primal Scream, standard buff, heck you'll probably have it as FoTW is the strongerst ED for Rangers. +5 STR and CON

    It just adds up to more.

    Regarding the "dex builds suk" I say that regrettingly. I wish they didn't but since AC builds are meh they just are since MoTU.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

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  19. #1459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Primal Scream, standard buff, heck you'll probably have it as FoTW is the strongerst ED for Rangers. +5 STR and CON

    It just adds up to more.

    Regarding the "dex builds suk" I say that regrettingly. I wish they didn't but since AC builds are meh they just are since MoTU.
    Well, been testing things on lammania, two characters, one 3rd life 18 ranger/1 rogue/1 fighter and one pure ranger, both dex based, both halflings. With the enhancement pass you can get dex to damage while wielding light weapons, so that seems to be an improvement for dex builds. Going to go check what the pure ranger would be like strength based now, my previous tests seemed to show the base damage was about the same, attack speed definitely seemed faster on the pure ranger though.

  20. #1460
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Besides the spurious 'dex builds suk' comment, I don't see how you figure one can get 'way' more str than dex. Explain?
    There's just way more buffs that up strength than dex. Don't ditch the khopeshes. A strength build can use finesse weapons well. A dex build cannot use the non finesse weapons. A strength of ranger is not being tied to a singular weapon. Heck, if I ever do more ranger lives, I'll probably use some of those epic rapiers, but until I hit 20, I'll be sticking with my lit 2 khopeshes.

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