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  1. #41
    Community Member Mhykke's Avatar
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    What I'm curious to see are the Caster PrE's.

    In particular, sorcerer. It sounds as though the sorcerer PrE's are simply some time of elemental/dps specialty lines, which would basically suck, making sorcs only choices b/w different DPS specialties.

    Caster burst damage is pretty negated right now in high content, and I can't imagine it changing back any time soon. Only giving sorcs DPS PrE's would not be fun.
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  2. #42
    Community Member Turial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    no plans for a racial pre for humans or halfling? no urban soul?
    Was kinda hopeing for urban soul as well.
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  3. #43

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    Question: How many Warforged are going to take the Juggernaut enhancement just so they can run around Stormreach claiming “I’m the JUGGERNAUT! B****!”?
    Last edited by QuantumFX; 01-02-2009 at 03:01 PM.
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

  4. #44
    Founder Gol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    Question: How many Warforged are going to take the Juggernaut enhancement just so they can run around Stormreach claiming “I'm the JUGGERNAUT! B****!”?
    That'll depend on whether or not it carries the P&P feat requirement of Adamantine Body, I'd imagine

  5. #45
    Pirate Cursed axebender's Avatar
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    anyone have a list of dragon mark heirs they may use for each race?i was never familiar with dragon marks before they appeared in ddo.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by axebender View Post
    anyone have a list of dragon mark heirs they may use for each race?i was never familiar with dragon marks before they appeared in ddo.
    The class is generic. It basically gives you more favor in the house you belong to and a choice of alternatve uses of your dragonmarks or more uses. Considering that they have the extra uses enhancements already I think we're going to see things like invisibility or blur coming from the same Least DM of Shadow pool.
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

  7. #47

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    Even going by the PnP source, there is reason to allow the PrE's to be opened up. Prestige Classes in D&D are not dependent on classes, but instead on class features. This allows for more synergy, and more options. For instance, most "Fighter" Prestige Classes have a minimum Base Attack Bonus of +5 or greater. You could either get this by taking 5 levels of Fighter (or Ranger or Barbarian) or 3 levels of Fighter (+3 BAB) and 3 levels of Rogue (+2 BAB).

    The mechanics exist for this in DDO already, since all class abilities are treated as feats, and Enhancements can have feat requirements.

    As for balance, you GENERALLY only have to worry about the synergy points. Take for instance Tempest and Monk. Monks get the +5 bonus at level 7, the +11 bonus at level 15, and can't reach the +17 bonus. As a result a pure monk could not get the tier 3 Tempest (whatever it is). In order to get that bonus, you would need to multi-class with a maximum of 12 Monk levels and 6 that are Fighter, Ranger, Barbarian (Ranger is the most likely). So you still maintain power vs versatility.

    It makes multi-classing a lot more interesting.
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  8. #48
    Community Member nbhs275's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeaselKing View Post
    WF Pale Master Juggernaut FTW!!
    what im wonderin, is if WF will get access to barbarian prestige chains, then wouldn't that mean a WF barbarian could have 2 barb chains? frenzied berserker/occult slayer?!?

    Either way, WF ranger tempest III/frenzied berserker III is going to be down right scary.
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  9. #49
    Founder Gol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbhs275 View Post
    what im wonderin, is if WF will get access to barbarian prestige chains, then wouldn't that mean a WF barbarian could have 2 barb chains? frenzied berserker/occult slayer?!?

    Either way, WF ranger tempest III/frenzied berserker III is going to be down right scary.
    WF Ranger Tempest III & Juggernaut III for the win.

    As I read it, a WF would not be able to select Juggernaut and Frenzied Berserker. I'm taking that to be what the "counts as Barbarian" means on the Juggernaut.

  10. #50
    Founder binnsr's Avatar
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    Thanks for the full list, Eladrin.

    Any chance the OP could be edited to contain links to each of the preview posts to make searching for us easier?
    -=]ArchAngels[=-

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mhykke View Post
    In particular, sorcerer. It sounds as though the sorcerer PrE's are simply some time of elemental/dps specialty lines, which would basically suck, making sorcs only choices b/w different DPS specialties.
    The problem with the sorc specialties is not that they're DPS-only, as that might not even be true. The D&D elemental savant also gets spell penetration, matching energy immunity, immunity to stunning, poison, sleep, critical hits, and sneak attacks, plus also possibly invisibility, flying, or earthglide.

    So it might be a powerful defensive spec as well... but that would still be bad, because the specs are all so similar. Aside from the energy choice they'd be almost exactly the same. It'd be silly if there was no choice to have a more-offensive or defensive spec, and especially weird if all sorc18s are naturally immune to crits just because that's the only thing they can take.

    It would seem the simple fix would be to allow sorcs and wizards to take some of each others' specialties (which is exactly what happens in D&D)

  12. #52
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    Default I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    Turbine is definately going to have to think about how racial PrE's work. Stalwart (Dwarven) Defender is definately going to be more useful for a Dwarf Barbarian/Paladin/Ranger/Monk than the class it was intended for (Fighter). I think we're going to see the racial PrE's become both Racial and Class specific where you can do things like a dwarf Stalwart Defender/Purple Dragon Knight or an Elf Deepwood Sniper/Arcane Archer.
    I agree that the way racial PREs work has the opposite of the intended effect. Removing the restriction would encourage people to run the "favored" class, over multiclassing or choosing a different class just to benefit from having a racial PRE at all.

  13. #53
    Tasty Ham Hunter Kargon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    Barbarian Occult Slayer
    Like getting Favored Enemy Spellcaster. In addition to extra damage and saves against spellcasters, you also have a chance to interrupt their casting or even bounce spells back on them.
    Does this mean what Kargon think it mean? Kargon spell faceblock going get implementamed and kargon can actuamally bounce lightnamaling bolts back at castermers with kargon face?!?!?!?!

  14. #54
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    May have been discussed, but I noticed this from someone's Juggernaut PrC link:

    Healing Immunity:Starting at 3rd level, as a warforged juggernaut becomes more like a construct and less like a lving creature, it becomes immune to the effects of spells from the healing subschool. In addition, it can no longer benefit from effects of consumanle spells and magic items, such as heroes' feast and potions.
    As if not being able to be healed by a cleric wasn't bad enough, now they can't even chug potions?

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  15. #55
    Community Member KLBen's Avatar
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    Default Warforged Juggernaut

    According to the Eberron Source book, The juggernaut had no class prereq just that he has to be warforged? My book got stolen so can't look it up myself.

    By the way.....WARFORGED JUGGERNAUT HERE I COME!!
    Last edited by KLBen; 01-02-2009 at 04:39 PM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strakeln View Post
    As if not being able to be healed by a cleric wasn't bad enough, now they can't even chug potions?
    They'd still have Oil of Repair, because that's poured over the head instead of consumed. But all those useful drinks of Rage, Haste, Lesser Resto, and Energy Prot would be gone.

    However, that limitation is dubious in D&D for two reasons.
    1. By the rules, something like an air elemental, mummy, or even skeleton can benefit from a potion. You just have to be a "corporeal creature". So it's odd to put a prohibition on Juggernauts that even 100% constructs like the Warforged Titan don't face.

    2. Rules in numerous side books allow someone to use the Brew Potion feat to create potions equivalents as nearly any other kind of expendable item, such as ceramic tiles you crush to activate.

    PS. As far as healing by clerics is concerned, the DDO version of Juggernaut should apply a penalty to divine healing, but not knock it down to zero. At worst it should bring you to 10% divine healing, which would be bumped back up to to 35% with HF3. Even that would probably be too harsh (unless it were a togglable mode)

  17. #57
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    They'd still have Oil of Repair, because that's poured over the head instead of consumed. But all those useful drinks of Rage, Haste, Lesser Resto, and Energy Prot would be gone.

    However, that limitation is dubious in D&D for two reasons.
    1. By the rules, something like an air elemental, mummy, or even skeleton can benefit from a potion. You just have to be a "corporeal creature". So it's odd to put a prohibition on Juggernauts that even 100% constructs like the Warforged Titan don't face.

    2. Rules in numerous side books allow someone to use the Brew Potion feat to create potions equivalents as nearly any other kind of expendable item, such as ceramic tiles you crush to activate.

    PS. As far as healing by clerics is concerned, the DDO version of Juggernaut should apply a penalty to divine healing, but not knock it down to zero. At worst it should bring you to 10% divine healing, which would be bumped back up to to 35% with HF3. Even that would probably be too harsh (unless it were a togglable mode)

    whatever it does, it should be the same penalty as an adjusted version of the warforged heavy fort feat, which is useless right now anyway

  18. #58
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    So since there will be a Warforged Juggernaut does that mean that there will be no Warforged Greater Aptitude prestige enhancement or are those one and the same?
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    whatever it does, it should be the same penalty as an adjusted version of the warforged heavy fort feat, which is useless right now anyway
    Yes, I've said numerous times that Improved Fortification should give you some +X% fortification along with -(X/2)% divine healing. (Multiple feats so you can select X=25, 50, or 75 as you prefer). There are several strong reasons, but they're almost too obvious to bear repeating.

  20. #60
    Community Member jmelanie7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demoyn View Post
    It doesn't really matter that it's printed in the Complete Warrior, it's still a prestige class reserved for Cormyrian Knights.
    no, it's not, if you read the pre-reqs in the complete warrior, there is nothing about cormyr. It's not because on Faerun there is an order called the purple dragon knights that other settings can't get one too...that is as silly as saying ALL oranges come from Florida.

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