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  1. #501

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    The problem with making PrE's pay to play is that they would be one time purchases and that means incapable of sustaining revenue. They would need to make new PrE's to replace the old PrE's to continue making money that way and that just means more power creep to provide incentive buy them. We have enough of that with gear.

    If they were to try to add PrE's as direct revenue they would be far better off to only allow PrE's to subscription accounts. That creates ongoing revenue streams and removes the need to keep developing more after a full set. (EDIT: or at least not as much)

    If Turbine cannot evolve past one time purchases revenue only has one direction to go eventually so introducing more one time purchases is a business plan fail IMO. They need to convert new players attracted by F2P models into subscribers somehow.

    Not that I am advocating forcing players to go VIP for PrE's. I'm saying PrE's should be there to help maintain the customer base regardless of purchase and keep players playing and paying. P2P PrE's is a bad idea.

  2. #502
    Community Member Meat-Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Seems to me they are focusing on things that make money directly - bonus points sales, mana potion discount sales, and pay to play class sales (convenience purchases rather than unlocking with favor)

    Unless they make PRE a direct sale (pitchforks are back in stock people, order now!!!) they are more of an indirect money maker. Sure they might see an increase in sales of pay to play classes if they put more in, but there is no money incentive to put the PRE in for free classes.


    While you may be right overall. I disagree that there is NO incentive.

    2 examples:

    1. Oh look, Rad Serv III is out and is awesome. I better LR from my 17/3 build. (+1-+3 heart)
    2. Oh look, Turbine cares about what we want. I'll stay around a lil longer and maybe TR again (heart, xp pots, etc..)


    Actually, if they were SMART, they would release some more capstone options at the same time. Give ppl a double reason to TR/LR. (better capstone might earn an LR for even an 18/2 barb/ftr for example.


    You see?

    But I agree. It's the quarterly-report-business focus that drives far to many decisions. (direct sales) A longer view might earn more money overall though.
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  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meat-Head View Post
    But I agree. It's the quarterly-report-business focus that drives far to many decisions. (direct sales) A longer view might earn more money overall though.
    Yes. But if the revenue from this cannot be accurately measured and sourced, like for example a new commodity in the DDO store can, then there's no manager that can take credit for the change (change as in "let's develop all PrEs in 2012") and thus there will be no management sponsorship and support of it. So PrEs will continue to be trickled in, and created in the development hours dedicated to "general class maintenance" instead of the (likely) larger time slot set for "new projects".
    Various hedge-wizards and halfwits, please see MyDDO for all your squelching needs
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  4. #504
    Community Member Meat-Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razcar View Post
    Yes. But if the revenue from this cannot be accurately measured and sourced, like for example a new commodity in the DDO store can, then there's no manager that can take credit for the change (change as in "let's develop all PrEs in 2012") and thus there will be no management sponsorship and support of it. So PrEs will continue to be trickled in, and created in the development hours dedicated to "general class maintenance" instead of the (likely) larger time slot set for "new projects".

    Good analysis. This is probably pretty dang close to reality.
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  5. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razcar View Post
    Yes. But if the revenue from this cannot be accurately measured and sourced, like for example a new commodity in the DDO store can, then there's no manager that can take credit for the change (change as in "let's develop all PrEs in 2012") and thus there will be no management sponsorship and support of it. So PrEs will continue to be trickled in, and created in the development hours dedicated to "general class maintenance" instead of the (likely) larger time slot set for "new projects".
    Indeed.

    Life in the era of project management, departmental budgets, and prestige (manager prestige not the other ones)

  6. #506
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riggs View Post
    Indeed.

    Life in the era of project management, departmental budgets, and prestige (manager prestige not the other ones)
    OR they'll all be released this summer (<-FACT) and if i have my way (Wishful thinking->) even some "Mult-class" PrEs lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
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  7. #507
    Community Member Valezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    Prestige Enhancements planned over the next few modules are:

    Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker, Occult Slayer, Ravager
    Bard: Spellsinger, Virtuoso, Warchanter
    Cleric: Exorcist of the Silver Flame, Radiant Servant, Warpriest
    Favored Soul: Divine Avenger, Beacon of Hope, Angel of Vengeance
    Fighter: Kensai, Purple Dragon Knight, Stalwart Defender
    Monk: Henshin Mystic, Shintao Monk, Ninja Spy
    Paladin: Defender of Siberys, Hunter of the Dead, Knight of the Chalice
    Ranger: Arcane Archer, Deepwood Sniper, Tempest
    Rogue: Assassin, Mechanic, Thief-Acrobat
    Sorcerer: Acolyte of the Skin, Air Savant, Cold Savant, Earth Savant, Fire Savant
    Wizard: Archmage, Pale Master, Wild Mage

    Human: Cannith Dragonmark Heir, Deneith Dragonmark Heir, Orien Dragonmark Heir, Tharashk Dragonmark Heir
    Dwarf: Kundarak Dragonmark Heir, Dwarven Defender [Counts as Fighter]
    Elf: Arcane Archer [Counts as Ranger], Phiarlan Dragonmark Heir
    Halfling: Jorasco Dragonmark Heir
    Warforged: Warforged Juggernaut [Counts as Barbarian]
    Drow: Scorpion Wraith [Counts as Rogue]
    Here we are over three (3) years later and not half of this has been fully implemented. This is par for the course with Turbine. I'm not expecting Forgotten Realms settings or the Druid Class or Epic levels to be fully fleshed out either. If DDO is to retain its core member base it has to put on the overtime hours and get the game state "caught up" by implementing EVERYTHING they have promised us over the last 6 years.

    I loved DDO and have spent thousands of hours playing this game since it first launched. It's a great game with amazing potential, and extremely poor leadership in the form of Fernando Paiz. I cannot emphasize enough how bad the leadership has been and the lack of communication. Each patch seems to bring more bugs than fixes, and the features they add to end-game raids appear more centered around getting our dollars into the Turbine Store.

    I suggest finishing all the things you started before adding more "content" (aka - problems) to the game.

    Val

  8. #508
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    No it's clear that other than a coupel of exceptions they bascially stopped on the PRE's long ago... As well as the long promised FvS tod rings, somethin even remotely useful as far as bard tod rings etc etc etc....

    Now the new excuse is...... Well we were wating till the "Expansion" so we can redo all the enhancements etc.. Blah blah blah.. Hook, line, and sinker corporate BS.... Keep paying, we swear there are things coming *Soon....

    Yep, I agree poor leadership as I've said many times... And even at times downright dishonesty... Oh well it's still a cool game..

  9. #509
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    So with all this talk of the xpac and the FR Underdark and the Druid class they still have yet to fully implements all these PrEs? Seriously... how are you gonna come out with an expansion when there is still unfulfilled promises left? Wished that the interview w/ Eric and Fernando by GameBanshee that they brought up the incomplete PrE status.

  10. #510
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saco View Post
    So with all this talk of the xpac and the FR Underdark and the Druid class they still have yet to fully implements all these PrEs? Seriously... how are you gonna come out with an expansion when there is still unfulfilled promises left? Wished that the interview w/ Eric and Fernando by GameBanshee that they brought up the incomplete PrE status.
    Hey before you whine about something please actually do your research...this summers update will include

    - A Completely Revamped Enhancement System/UI which they've given the community free reign to help shape and other than the few people who insist that "we should trust the devs" there's been plenty of good ideas and most are on the discussion table right now.

    - ALL PrEs completed (and if I have my way Racial & Multiclass PrEs but thats wishful thinking)

    - An entire new world

    - Epic Lvls 21-25 (different system than 1-20)

    - The Druid Class complete with all its PrEs and the system that's plagued the dev team...shape shifting.

    and much more that has yet to have been revealed (although there's some talk that their adding Kobolds & Gnomes)

    Next time read a bit before you open you yap...oh and X-PAC is NOT a short form for expansion



    Also between now and summer any devs not working on the expasion are dedicated to tackling the giant stack of bugs piling up
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
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  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Hey before you whine about something please actually do your research...this summers update will include

    - A Completely Revamped Enhancement System/UI which they've given the community free reign to help shape and other than the few people who insist that "we should trust the devs" there's been plenty of good ideas and most are on the discussion table right now.

    - ALL PrEs completed (and if I have my way Racial & Multiclass PrEs but thats wishful thinking)

    - An entire new world

    - Epic Lvls 21-25 (different system than 1-20)

    - The Druid Class complete with all its PrEs and the system that's plagued the dev team...shape shifting.

    and much more that has yet to have been revealed (although there's some talk that their adding Kobolds & Gnomes)

    Next time read a bit before you open you yap...oh and X-PAC is NOT a short form for expansion



    Also between now and summer any devs not working on the expasion are dedicated to tackling the giant stack of bugs piling up
    Where is this fact that PrEs are gonna be worked on? Seen people say that they are being worked on but I've come across nothing official from Turbine which I have been digging round.

    Lack of PrEs was my major let down of DDO, if they actually had these done then might have stuck it out here and if they ever fix archery. Came here looking for an answer but didn't read far back enough as the tail end sounded like nothing is being done to finish off the PrEs.

    Kobolds playable...? Good lord, I've killed enough of those vermin and their AI is annoying as hell... now I might be partied with em?

  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by saco View Post
    Where is this fact that PrEs are gonna be worked on? Seen people say that they are being worked on but I've come across nothing official from Turbine which I have been digging round.
    This was posted in the enhancements thread as a response to a question about how many of the PRE's would be done when the new system goes into place.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Ideally, all of them, but we'll see how it goes.
    Last edited by Krelar; 01-24-2012 at 10:36 AM. Reason: found quote

  13. #513
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    Prestige Enhancements planned over the next few modules are:

    Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker, Occult Slayer, Ravager
    Bard: Spellsinger, Virtuoso, Warchanter
    Cleric: Exorcist of the Silver Flame, Radiant Servant, Warpriest
    Favored Soul: Divine Avenger, Beacon of Hope, Angel of Vengeance
    Fighter: Kensai, Purple Dragon Knight, Stalwart Defender
    Monk: Henshin Mystic, Shintao Monk, Ninja Spy
    Paladin: Defender of Siberys, Hunter of the Dead, Knight of the Chalice
    Ranger: Arcane Archer, Deepwood Sniper, Tempest
    Rogue: Assassin, Mechanic, Thief-Acrobat
    Sorcerer: Acolyte of the Skin, Air Savant, Cold Savant, Earth Savant, Fire Savant
    Wizard: Archmage, Pale Master, Wild Mage

    Human: Cannith Dragonmark Heir, Deneith Dragonmark Heir, Orien Dragonmark Heir, Tharashk Dragonmark Heir
    Dwarf: Kundarak Dragonmark Heir, Dwarven Defender [Counts as Fighter]
    Elf: Arcane Archer [Counts as Ranger], Phiarlan Dragonmark Heir
    Halfling: Jorasco Dragonmark Heir
    Warforged: Warforged Juggernaut [Counts as Barbarian]
    Drow: Scorpion Wraith [Counts as Rogue]
    More than 4 years later and where are we? Well, not complete is the answer. In fact, we have not seen a new PrE in a long time let alone having all of the above implemented into the game. This is an embarrassingly poor job Turbine. There are hints of these finally being complete, but after being jerked around for 4+ years, I am not buying into it.
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  14. #514
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barecm View Post
    More than 4 years later and where are we? Well, not complete is the answer. In fact, we have not seen a new PrE in a long time let alone having all of the above implemented into the game. This is an embarrassingly poor job Turbine. There are hints of these finally being complete, but after being jerked around for 4+ years, I am not buying into it.
    There are devs posts which state that they are currently working on an enhancement overhaul. It was initially planned to be included in u14, but was postponed later on. At the moment, it is expected (by the community) to be included in u17. There was a sneak peek on a lammania build into the new PrE trees, which you can find in the lammania forums.

    It sounds like there is some progression in this issue, but everyone is in fact waiting for new info.
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  15. #515
    Community Member Dhalgren's Avatar
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    I would be shocked to see a workable and acceptable enhancement rebuild before U18 at the earliest, despite what some people believe that they have been told.

    Happily shocked, but shocked nonetheless.
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  16. #516
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalgren View Post
    I would be shocked to see a workable and acceptable enhancement rebuild before U18 at the earliest, despite what some people believe that they have been told.

    Happily shocked, but shocked nonetheless.
    'Expecting' was probably not the best word - awaiting fits better.
    Toons on Orien: Meinir // Flodur // Twiddler // Thorkar // Impetor // Juliacantor // Minor all Soko Irrlicht
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  17. #517

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    Quote Originally Posted by barecm View Post
    More than 4 years later and where are we? Well, not complete is the answer. In fact, we have not seen a new PrE in a long time let alone having all of the above implemented into the game. This is an embarrassingly poor job Turbine. There are hints of these finally being complete, but after being jerked around for 4+ years, I am not buying into it.
    Bit of a necro and that list isn't even up-to-date anymore. The racial PrE's were being converted to class PrE unlocks on the last official update. We actually saw new PrE's with the druid and artificer, however, the druid not being that long ago. I wouldn't waste time on too much PrE development either with the enhancement overhaul coming.
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  18. #518
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    The racial PrE's were being converted to class PrE unlocks on the last official update.
    Hopefully they've listening and since dropped that idea
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  19. #519
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    ****ing embarrasing that they STILL don't have enhancements done...

    How many systems do the devs start and never finish?

    And I love the devs, and I love this game...

    But it's ****ing sad that they never complete anything they start.
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    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  20. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    ****ing embarrasing that they STILL don't have enhancements done...

    How many systems do the devs start and never finish?

    And I love the devs, and I love this game...

    But it's ****ing sad that they never complete anything they start.
    The problem starts with "F" and ends in "O"......

    When they didn't finish the PRE system in the first year after it 's release, the systems team got buried into other projects such as combat reworking, etc etc etc.... Always another reason or excuse not to finish th eold wacked out systems. And of course the latest is the enhancment pass. Which, while likely very legitimate, should've been done long ago as well. I can usnderstand the enhancement pass bein gvery deep within the code accross the entire game, and likely very diffiuclt to weave in without majors issues.. But still......

    You see they had all that extra time to do useless stupid stuff like "Underwater combat" Which nobody EVER cared about or even wanted.... And yet.... Truly sad that the sytems team gets trashed on for doing what the producers decide is important....

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