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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    I think the idea behind was to reduce the whole "rogues are squishy" stereotype without giving them more HP.

    It misses the mark, based on my read of it...depends on the actual details (i.e. chance of a True Rez makes it much more useful for the 2 AP than, say, Raise Dead).

    I think a boost to Uncanny Dodge would be more thematic, say an additional +2 AC/Reflex Save....but, hey, it's easy to criticise, harder to implement.

    Other capstones will be coming with other mods.
    Last edited by SableShadow; 12-31-2008 at 01:31 PM.
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  2. #42
    Community Member bobbryan2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    I think the idea behind was to reduce the whole "rogues are squishy" stereotype without giving them more HP.
    How does it even do that?

    They still die. They still get debuffed... they still get the death penalty... they're going to be useless getting back into the fight. And if they died in a trap.. they're now -2 reflex save from where they were not counting any buffs they had.

    I'm not seeing how it really helps do anything but save a cleric a rezz... or maybe give the party a possible chance to recover after a partywipe if the rogue had a scroll.

  3. #43
    Community Member Milolyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbryan2 View Post
    they're gonna have to rebuff anyway...

    You're saving the... what? 25? 35? to rezz? Or maybe a rezz clicky?
    Hmmm ... the way it reads it says they "Cheat Death" meaning they don't die and therefor do not need to get rebuffed.

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  4. #44
    Community Member Gum's Avatar
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    Cool
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  5. #45
    Community Member bobbryan2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milolyen View Post
    Hmmm ... the way it reads it says they "Cheat Death" meaning they don't die and therefor do not need to get rebuffed.

    Milolyen
    The way it reads... it says they get a ressurection if they die.

    "You have a chance of self-resurrection should you die"

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbryan2 View Post
    They still die. They still get debuffed...
    Thematically, it would better if they would not die. It'd also make the ability much better.

    If Eladrin was to change it to "Chance to heal back to 50-100% HP when hitting -10 HP or lower", what would you think?
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  7. #47
    Community Member Aeneas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Thematically, it would better if they would not die. It'd also make the ability much better.

    If Eladrin was to change it to "Chance to heal back to 50-100% HP when hitting -10 HP or lower", what would you think?
    Well he did say resurrect right? Not raise dead. That should mean you come back with half health if it works as the spell.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Thematically, it would better if they would not die. It'd also make the ability much better.

    If Eladrin was to change it to "Chance to heal back to 50-100% HP when hitting -10 HP or lower", what would you think?
    That would be better as it would mirror defensive roll much better than our currently gimped enhancement

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeneas View Post
    Well he did say resurrect right? Not raise dead. That should mean you come back with half health if it works as the spell.
    Err, I was unclear I guess. I meant that instead of dying, you'd go back to 50-100% of your HP.
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  10. #50
    Community Member Aeneas's Avatar
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    Ah yes, for sure. Not dropping buffs would be pretty key to making this worthwhile. I think half hitpoints and no lost buffs would be great.
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  11. #51
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    I guess the argument for rez in this case is to not duplicate defensive roll and the cleric capstone. I agree though that this is not exactly "escaping" death -- I'd rather see this be a "super defensive roll."

    I advocate Cheat Death read this way:

    A master rogue can defy even death if their luck holds out.

    The first time you are struck with an attack that would reduce you below -9 HP there is a percentage chance equal to your Reflex plus 50 save that the attack does half main damage, and its special effects are negated (as if you were blocking). Each sucessful use reduces the bonus. This ability stacks with Defensive Roll.
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  12. #52
    Community Member bobbryan2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Thematically, it would better if they would not die. It'd also make the ability much better.

    If Eladrin was to change it to "Chance to heal back to 50-100% HP when hitting -10 HP or lower", what would you think?
    It would remove the pain of having to rebuff and the death penalty... but then you get the added bonus of instantly being back in the fray where you were in a bad enough situation to die from.

    It just seems like this enhancement, like the cleric one, is all about saving resources... (and a very small amount at that) vs the good capstones actually make the build more effective and help the class do something better.

    For instance... wizards get more SP and higher DCs. That's a passive, and universal bonus.

    Rogues on the other hand get to save the cleric sp when they do something they weren't supposed to do anyway.


    I was just kinda hoping for something to actually improve what a rogue can do... rather than mitigate when a rogue fails.

  13. #53
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    Some reason not to multiclass. Give me an incentive. On a Cleric, I need a reason not to splash Monk 2.
    - more Spellpoints
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbryan2 View Post
    I was just kinda hoping for something to actually improve what a rogue can do... rather than mitigate when a rogue fails.
    What do you want? More Sneak Attack? Meh. Traps? Meh.

    At least this helps rogues survive when things go south. Given that they have lower HP, why not? It fits in the class' flavor.
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  15. #55
    Community Member bobbryan2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    What do you want? More Sneak Attack? Meh. Traps? Meh.

    At least this helps rogues survive when things go south. Given that they have lower HP, why not? It fits in the class' flavor.
    Ability to sneak attack constructs and undead for half their sneak attack?


  16. #56
    Community Member toughguyjoe's Avatar
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    while i'm not sure if this is exactly what a rogue neds, my pure rogue is going to take it just for kicks. hes not a damage dealer anyway, and hes got enough trap smithing to last him a life time. So maybe his squishy bum needs a free rez every once in a while, so the clerics don't get all mad when i die! lol.


    What rogues REALLY need at the level 20 is a quest with traps that have a dc of about 75-80. Trust me, it is annoying to make a quintessential "best trapsmith EVER" build and then have all the assassins doing the traps with no chance of failure. its nice to pass most traps without having to roll a d20, but it'd be even better to have a challenge specifically for we ewber trapsmiths.
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbryan2 View Post
    Ability to sneak attack constructs and undead for half their sneak attack?

    That should be a normal enhancement line.
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  18. #58
    Community Member Turial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Thematically, it would better if they would not die. It'd also make the ability much better.

    If Eladrin was to change it to "Chance to heal back to 50-100% HP when hitting -10 HP or lower", what would you think?
    This would fit thematically with the concept of cheating death. When one thinks about cheating death one rarely envisions coming back with a dramatic loss of power...which death followed by resurrection would provide.
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  19. #59
    Community Member Rindalathar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toughguyjoe View Post
    while i'm not sure if this is exactly what a rogue neds, my pure rogue is going to take it just for kicks. hes not a damage dealer anyway, and hes got enough trap smithing to last him a life time. So maybe his squishy bum needs a free rez every once in a while, so the clerics don't get all mad when i die! lol.


    What rogues REALLY need at the level 20 is a quest with traps that have a dc of about 75-80. Trust me, it is annoying to make a quintessential "best trapsmith EVER" build and then have all the assassins doing the traps with no chance of failure. its nice to pass most traps without having to roll a d20, but it'd be even better to have a challenge specifically for we ewber trapsmiths.
    I highly doubt they'll ever put more than one uber trap in any dungeon, ala Cabal trap. It's kind of a cheesy way to limit content to one build of one class. I'm saying this with a rogue that could very well hit the upper levels of disabling.

    Back to what bobbryan2 was saying, I know I would've rather seen something like more damage-dealing capabilities or even a bonus to rogue skills in general, oh, something like a bonus to crit. chances on a scroll or wand, much like a cleric or caster's enhancement lines. Can't tell you how much I'd like to crit. on a heal scroll with my rogue. Maybe even extending times on scrolls. Imagine being able to extend a GH scroll with a rogue
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  20. #60
    Community Member Eradacator's Avatar
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    AWESOME!!!!! This makes up for all the times my pure rogue got bamboozled out of groups because of ranger hybrids or multiclassed rogues.. Really cool capstone.

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