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  1. #21
    Community Member InfidelofHaLL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinar View Post
    I'm pretty sure the puzzle is solveable initially somewhere around 80% of the time (not less than 50% as the OP says). I've ran this at least 25 times and only had to touch him 3 times. Every other time it was solveable without attacking him. Sure, 25 isn't exactly a large enough number that I would consider it a foolproof dataset, but the 80% number coincides with experiences others have told me and what I've read here on the forums.

    Personally though, for me, even when it is unsolveable, it isn't worth trying to beat him down.

    It litterally takes me 10mins (15 on a bad run) to run the entire quest. I'd rather recall, reset the mission and rerun it than bother with beating him down for 5mins to take a chance at getting it completed and also losing a chest...
    its actually around 65% solveable and thats with over 300 runs in there it does make it kinda of a pain though when he hits for 75-100 per shot against every type of toon there is even my ac build gets hit every time it is kind of redicoulous

  2. #22
    Community Member Talcyndl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    thats an untrue statement, gog: i have had puzzles it said were unsolvable, then hit some tiles (usually involving 1 isolated on an edge with the ones to either side not part of the puzzle) and got a configuration it thought was solvable.
    Did the Scorpion walk over it? I've heard (and it makes sense) that the Scorpion with 6 legs can hit multiple tiles at once and thereby change the puzzle to solveable. Not sure if that's true...and I guess that a few players with well timed jumps could do the same.

    Anyway...solid fog is essential.

  3. #23
    Community Member nbhs275's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talcyndl View Post
    Did the Scorpion walk over it? I've heard (and it makes sense) that the Scorpion with 6 legs can hit multiple tiles at once and thereby change the puzzle to solveable. Not sure if that's true...and I guess that a few players with well timed jumps could do the same.

    Anyway...solid fog is essential.
    hitting tiles at the same time, does not have any effect different from hitting them in sequence.

    Any time the puzzle has six circles, aligned as such

    XX
    OX
    XX

    Where the O is an unlit tile, its unsolvable, because there is no way to light all six. Now i can tell you honestly, out of 25 runs i made YESTERDAY before i made this thread, i had 14 puzzles come up with that combination. Thats why i had to reenter and complete another 11 runs.

    My point isnt that the puzzle is "difficult". Difficult implies challenge, but its solvable. But when there is simply no correct solution to the puzzle, its unsolvable and just pointless to have the puzzle in place if thats going to happen. Recalling and reforming should never be a tactic simply because of a gaff that the players have no control of.

    OH, and the person talking about his buddies 2manning it on elite. WOO for them. I solo it on normal on a sorcerer, its really not hard if the puzzle isnt unsolvable.
    Aundair, New Khyber
    Alreck Gingerbarrel(15clr/1barb), Torrak Gingerbarrel(16 Brd), Oat(13 Rgr/3Ftr), Moxxy(16 Sor), Thorrac Gingerbarrel(6 Pal/1 Ftr) <<Current Toons>>

  4. #24
    Community Member Draccus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbhs275 View Post
    But then you make the puzzle completely unsolvable more then 50% of the time.
    I've run this quest 11+ times and have yet to have an unsolveable puzzle.

    Basic, universal rogue build advice
    "Not in the face! Not in the faaaaaace!"

  5. #25
    Community Member nbhs275's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draccus View Post
    I've run this quest 11+ times and have yet to have an unsolveable puzzle.
    Then your either lucky, or considering puzzles that need to be locked "solvable"
    Aundair, New Khyber
    Alreck Gingerbarrel(15clr/1barb), Torrak Gingerbarrel(16 Brd), Oat(13 Rgr/3Ftr), Moxxy(16 Sor), Thorrac Gingerbarrel(6 Pal/1 Ftr) <<Current Toons>>

  6. #26
    Community Member bobbryan2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draccus View Post
    I've run this quest 11+ times and have yet to have an unsolveable puzzle.
    Yep... you're either lucky, or you weren't paying attention to what people were doing to beat the quest.

    The quest is always beatable. The puzzle isn't always solvable.

  7. #27
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbhs275 View Post
    I solo it on normal on a sorcerer, its really not hard if the puzzle isnt unsolvable.
    So, can one sneak in and solve the puzzle without the end-boss noticing?

  8. #28
    Community Member bobbryan2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    So, can one sneak in and solve the puzzle without the end-boss noticing?
    If it's easy, you can try it. Normally I run him to the top with a lot of solid or acid fogs, and that gives me enough time to finish the puzzle before he gets down.

  9. #29
    Community Member nbhs275's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    So, can one sneak in and solve the puzzle without the end-boss noticing?
    Its a matter of running, fogging, and jump down, hitting a few circles then getting back up high quickly
    Aundair, New Khyber
    Alreck Gingerbarrel(15clr/1barb), Torrak Gingerbarrel(16 Brd), Oat(13 Rgr/3Ftr), Moxxy(16 Sor), Thorrac Gingerbarrel(6 Pal/1 Ftr) <<Current Toons>>

  10. #30
    Community Member dameron's Avatar
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    The quest is moronic.

    Why in the world would that end boss feel the need to layer trap after trap and wave after wave of cultists for protection? Oh and several puzzles.

    All this quest does is grossly remind players they're playing a game.

    Lame.

  11. #31
    Community Member kamimitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    So, can one sneak in and solve the puzzle without the end-boss noticing?
    Absolutely. As soon as I log on (early A.M. and few group LFMs up), I often solo the quest on my rogue. It is possible to finish with no kills (well, 1 misadventure kill for the scorp) and no re-entries. Takes just under 30 minutes now.

    The boss walks around the room and over the tiles in something like an 'm' shape. So, sneak in and find a spot that doesn't cross his path. Wait for him to walk over the puzzle and away, then quickly find a solution to the puzzle, and solve it before he walks back around. It's been very rarely unsolvable for me. Perhaps 3 or 4 runs of the 20 or so I've done?

    Quote Originally Posted by dameron View Post
    The quest is moronic.

    Why in the world would that end boss feel the need to layer trap after trap and wave after wave of cultists for protection? Oh and several puzzles.

    All this quest does is grossly remind players they're playing a game.

    Lame.
    I dunno, if I knew I could be erased from existence by someone solving a puzzle, I suspect I would try to prevent them from getting to that puzzle at any cost. Especially if I knew my ranks in spot weren't that good. To quote Belkar from Oots, 'I think I missed a spot check'
    Last edited by kamimitsu; 12-14-2008 at 10:49 PM.
    Shiz -Proud Officer of the Southern Tenant Farmers Union - Ghallanda
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  12. #32
    Community Member nbhs275's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamimitsu View Post
    Absolutely. As soon as I log on (early A.M. and few group LFMs up), I often solo the quest on my rogue. It is possible to finish with no kills (well, 1 misadventure kill for the scorp) and no re-entries. Takes just under 30 minutes now.

    The boss walks around the room and over the tiles in something like an 'm' shape. So, sneak in and find a spot that doesn't cross his path. Wait for him to walk over the puzzle and away, then quickly find a solution to the puzzle, and solve it before he walks back around. It's been very rarely unsolvable for me. Perhaps 3 or 4 runs of the 20 or so I've done?



    I dunno, if I knew I could be erased from existence by someone solving a puzzle, I suspect I would try to prevent them from getting to that puzzle at any cost. Especially if I knew my ranks in spot weren't that good. To quote Belkar from Oots, 'I think I missed a spot check'

    Pay attention to what the puzzle looks like when unsolvable, it almost always involves the

    XX
    XO
    XX

    combination, or another combination of 1 unlit in 6 spots.
    Aundair, New Khyber
    Alreck Gingerbarrel(15clr/1barb), Torrak Gingerbarrel(16 Brd), Oat(13 Rgr/3Ftr), Moxxy(16 Sor), Thorrac Gingerbarrel(6 Pal/1 Ftr) <<Current Toons>>

  13. #33
    Community Member kamimitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbhs275 View Post
    Pay attention to what the puzzle looks like when unsolvable, it almost always involves the

    XX
    XO
    XX

    combination, or another combination of 1 unlit in 6 spots.
    If it's unsolvable (it's happened a few times), I just restart. Or, if there are some guildies on, I just ask some them to beat the big guy up with me for a few minutes. I don't really care about the configuration, as I'm using a solver anyway. My real life intelligence isn't a 20, but my character's is, so I don't really feel bad about using the solver. When I DM, I often let the players roll INT checks for puzzles that they can't solve themselves. I don't feel this is much different, especially considering I have time to take 20.
    Shiz -Proud Officer of the Southern Tenant Farmers Union - Ghallanda
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  14. #34
    Community Member nbhs275's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamimitsu View Post
    If it's unsolvable (it's happened a few times), I just restart. Or, if there are some guildies on, I just ask some them to beat the big guy up with me for a few minutes. I don't really care about the configuration, as I'm using a solver anyway. My real life intelligence isn't a 20, but my character's is, so I don't really feel bad about using the solver. When I DM, I often let the players roll INT checks for puzzles that they can't solve themselves. I don't feel this is much different, especially considering I have time to take 20.
    Not my point, my point is that, the configurations containing that placement are almost , if not always unsolvable. And to have a quest where the main goal of the quest is unbeatable because of something completely out of the players control is stupidity. It would be like 50% of the time you go into the shroud harry is simply immune to damage for no reason.
    Aundair, New Khyber
    Alreck Gingerbarrel(15clr/1barb), Torrak Gingerbarrel(16 Brd), Oat(13 Rgr/3Ftr), Moxxy(16 Sor), Thorrac Gingerbarrel(6 Pal/1 Ftr) <<Current Toons>>

  15. #35
    Community Member kamimitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbhs275 View Post
    Not my point, my point is that, the configurations containing that placement are almost , if not always unsolvable. And to have a quest where the main goal of the quest is unbeatable because of something completely out of the players control is stupidity. It would be like 50% of the time you go into the shroud harry is simply immune to damage for no reason.
    But even if the puzzle isn't 'initially' solvable it doesn't make the quest unbeatable. I'm quite sure that the Devs intended for it to be unsolvable sometimes, forcing you to take on Scorpion-boy mano-a-claw and lock in some tiles. A better analogy would be if you went into the shroud and Harry was immune to damage until you completed some other task, say, kill the Gnolls that regenerate him.

    edit: There are some relatively safe ways to take on Sannyasi that don't involve any exploits. Perching may be considered cheesy, but I'm not about to duke it out with him.

    edit2: You don't even have to do that much damage to him to lock in a tile. The worst puzzle I've seen took 4 tiles to lock before it was solvable.
    Last edited by kamimitsu; 12-14-2008 at 11:35 PM.
    Shiz -Proud Officer of the Southern Tenant Farmers Union - Ghallanda
    Shizmonkey, Shizrhino, Shizlazer, Shizpanzee, Shizlion, Shizchopper, Shiztiger, Shizopotamus, Shizphoenix, Shizquito, Shizwolf, Shizfrog
    R.O.G.U.E. Proving Grounds Redux is now defunct. Check out Part Trois

  16. #36
    Community Member nbhs275's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamimitsu View Post
    But even if the puzzle isn't 'initially' solvable it doesn't make the quest unbeatable. I'm quite sure that the Devs intended for it to be unsolvable sometimes, forcing you to take on Scorpion-boy mano-a-claw and lock in some tiles. A better analogy would be if you went into the shroud and Harry was immune to damage until you completed some other task, say, kill the Gnolls that regenerate him.

    edit: There are some relatively safe ways to take on Sannyasi that don't involve any exploits. Perching may be considered cheesy, but I'm not about to duke it out with him.

    edit2: You don't even have to do that much damage to him to lock in a tile. The worst puzzle I've seen took 4 tiles to lock before it was solvable.
    Recalling and reforming shouldnt be a more viable tactic then facing the boss. And how much damage it takes to get a tile to lock also seems to be random, as i've both seen it lock after him taking less then 1000 damage, and him having locked zero even when he is at less then 50%.

    And you also need to hope he locks a light somewhere near the problem area, or he could lock 10+ and not make the puzzle solvable.

    OH, and if the puzzle deals you up the 6 configuration, he needs to lock 2-3 of the involved pieces to solve it.
    Aundair, New Khyber
    Alreck Gingerbarrel(15clr/1barb), Torrak Gingerbarrel(16 Brd), Oat(13 Rgr/3Ftr), Moxxy(16 Sor), Thorrac Gingerbarrel(6 Pal/1 Ftr) <<Current Toons>>

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by nbhs275 View Post
    Recalling and reforming shouldnt be a more viable tactic then facing the boss.

    I've got to agree. I'm down to 20 minutes solo, including puzzle time; much easier to just recall, run it again, and only invite a group if the puzzle is completable.

    Now, I *have* seen him change the the base puzzle from the two basic patterns he runs. It seems to be a rare event (seen it exactly twice), and I've not seen him change an unsolvable puzzle to a solvable one (yet). This is only based on two or three hours of watching him walk on unsolvable puzzles the other day (I was bored, I was convinced that he'd eventually make an unsolvable puzzle solvable...I'm convinced now that he won't do this, at least not always).

    A nice change to this quest would be to eliminate the "heal to full when agro'd player dies" trick he does. People don't mind killing him straight up, but if every time he puts someone down he's back to full health...well, that's only gonna encourage cheese, init?
    Last edited by SableShadow; 12-15-2008 at 09:42 AM.
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  18. #38
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Acid fog on the big guy makes him extremely killable... and debuff him fatigue exhaustion crippling curse... just gotta play smart guys
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  19. #39
    Community Member etelan's Avatar
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    It seems that if the puzzle is not to your liking you need only to drag the boss across it. In addition when I've done this he tends to patrol back and forth on it.

    I do agree that this puzzle is extremely difficult for a 6 person group without using a solver. I also very much agree that the scorpion is wickedly powerful.

  20. #40
    Community Member plus10swordofpimp's Avatar
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    a few complaints here, namely you HAVE to solve the puzzle to kill this guy. i yet to see someone kill this guy (other than solving the puzzle).

    i agree with the other posters. i've run this quest, many, many times. out of say around 25 times, i've got "unsolvable" around 5-6 times. our strategy, is to get him stuck somewhere and ranged him until he blocks out one of the puzzle pieces.

    ...and srsly, 50,000hp+ *** turbine. you'd need a raid group to output that much dmg quick enough to take him down before he destroys the entire pty.

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