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  1. #221
    Community Member moorewr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BelVic View Post
    I started simular build about 6 months ago. He was a little bit different 10 rog/5 pal/1 monk but fast speed qstaff idea simular.
    At low lvls up to 10 I loved it...was best dps toon I made before. Still rememeber how we duo WW elite at lvl 3 or 4 with another rogue when other ppl in pug died and recalled.

    At mid-higher lvls when ppl start using vorpals/wounding weapon on mobs it's start getting less fun. I can still use kamas for same purpose but it feels no so fast and close range kinda make me upset.

    For dps on named bosses it's still doing ok. ( I have 4 smites and divine sacrifice for extra dmg) --- will be knight of chalice in mod 9.

    Decided to change great cleave also -- stunning blow calculate not very high dc. On my barb I can stun orthons in shroud 90% with dc 38+4 ( my debuff) =42 average. So anything lower 35 was under question...still good for low fort save mobs I guess.
    So I changed it to improved trip as I took combat expertise anyway. Dc 35 on this. Still looking for maladroit of vertigo 8 or 10 qstaff to combine 2 in 1. Can trip most devils and sometimes orthons. ( giants are very hard to trip with high str it seems)

    Gonna need to make some displacement clickies ( going to 60 ac after finish DT docent but mobs still hit often).

    Testing new weapons. Gonna try to make Trap the Soul qstaff to test if it can replace vorpal or not ( not enough information on forums from ppl who really tried it). And may be slay living one for mobs with low fort save like casters.

    Still low on UMD around 30 right now but working on improve it so I can use reconstruct scrolls.
    Sounds like our builds are on the same track. I'm currently 7 rogue/4 pal on my way to 13r/6p/1m w/ knight of the chalice.

    There's no way to get a build like this to an effective AC. I think CE is a waste.. displacement is a fine idea, but my focus has been on maxing diplomacy for aggro management.

    I have settled on power quarterstaves now that I am past level 10 - and a vorpal great axe. Not perfect, but it is still putting out decent DPS while you wait for your '20' to come up. No kamas for me.

    I will have to run the numbers on stunning blow.. concerned to see your feedback, but high str+weighted+enhancements seems like all I can do there.
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  2. #222
    Community Member D'rin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strakeln View Post
    I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm just gonna go ahead and ask and hope it hasn't been addressed already:

    Any way you put it, I don't see how the DPS of this build wouldn't be dramatically improved by switching to TWF. I know, 10% speed boost with staves and all, but +10% alacrity != +100% swings. Yep, there's also the power attack angle, but since a rogue's main source of damage is sneak attack, the extra damage from using a two handed weapon w/power attack is quickly overwhelmed.

    Is it just the fun factor? Or am I missing some kind of uber quarterstaff trait?
    Well first of the alacrity from acrobat only works on staves and with tier 2 it is 20%. With windstance you are gaining 30% total. If you are talking about using kamas with windstance you have 2 things going against you the low damage of kamas and the bad crit range. Some of this is made up for the q-stick due to power attack and glancing blows. q-staves have the same bad damage base and crit range but you get more str bonus and glancing blows. Come mod 9 with the changes to glancing blows in regard to thf and wf it will narrow the gap a little more.
    I am definitly looking at switching out a feat for stunning blow. With wf tactics it should be really fun.

  3. #223
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strakeln View Post
    I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm just gonna go ahead and ask and hope it hasn't been addressed already:

    Any way you put it, I don't see how the DPS of this build wouldn't be dramatically improved by switching to TWF. I know, 10% speed boost with staves and all, but +10% alacrity != +100% swings. Yep, there's also the power attack angle, but since a rogue's main source of damage is sneak attack, the extra damage from using a two handed weapon w/power attack is quickly overwhelmed.

    Is it just the fun factor? Or am I missing some kind of uber quarterstaff trait?
    Heh...hey man didnt see you poking in there.

    This was designed as a flavor build to make staffs kick some butt, since I think quarterstaves are the neatest animation in the game... and is a hell of a lot of fun

    Its goal... to make the highest swing rate THF build possible, above average dps, with a respectible ac.

    THe alacrity is a LOT higher than what you think...Tier I and II both give speed boosts, with the monk air stance added in and all the acro bonuses, it works out to be like 23.5% alacrity bonus permanent (while hasted), immunity to slippery stuff.. a fairly high sustainable ac, a very high boostable ac, good save hit points etc.

    Yes a twf rouge does x swings vs a single target.

    But a thf rouge with cleave does Base + sneak to an entire group of critters, plus glancing blows...and at a very fast rate of speed, especially since I made him str based, so the dps would hold its own even with aggro.

    If you wanna see how fast it goes, shoot me a tell in game some time and I will demo for ya.
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  4. #224
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Default Gah

    So with the new changes to THF I have decided to.... drop the dragonmarks and go with the full THF line...big surprise

    This wont effect me too much. With the raid loot I have acquired I have a 35 umd and with a shroud item (or sos set of clothes) I can pick up 3-6 more really easy. SO I will be able ot flawlessly work heal scrolls.

    And I will pick up lots of extra damage, and all the effects off the glancing blows.

    Once I get the switch all the way done I will report back with impressions.

    Oh and btw... Stunning blow still rocks... So I use that or my 3x earth staff for trash...if its a low reflex mob... earth...high relfex... stun...

    Stinks I can do greensteel deconstruction, or I would disassemble my lightning stick...make it a mineral II and have that as my boss beater...shrug live and learn...
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  5. #225
    Community Member Blind_Skwerl's Avatar
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    Ok, finally got my +2 int tome. Trying to figure out where to spend the skill points. Do I need diplomacy on this guy? Hide and move silent? What's the deal?
    Last edited by Blind Skwerl; 06-30-2009 at 02:01 AM.
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  6. #226
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Skwerl View Post
    Ok, finally got my +2 int tome. Trying to figure out where to spend the skill points. Do I need diplomacy on this guy? Hide and move silent? What's the deal?
    Well I can tell you this.

    Diplomacy is really useful for jumping in...cleaving diplo great cleave then repeat...But as levels progress I find myself using it less... even tho its a handy thing to have.

    I have invested in hide and move silently as well and find them a nice fun flavorful addition to the build.

    That being said I always thought intimidate would be really fun to have on him to control trash mobs... especially since his AC is high enough that being surrounded and cleaving is a good thing, and I may put some points into it for lvl 17-20... not shure yet tho.

    If you want to wait a day or two I will post his skill pt distribution and how I did it tonight or tomorrow... I just have to write it down... especially since I changed his feats and enhancements around.
    Last edited by The Phenx; 06-30-2009 at 09:50 AM.
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  7. #227
    Community Member Blind_Skwerl's Avatar
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    Ok cool. This is the first time I will have made a rogue in a loooong time. There are lots of things I don't remember like where tumble caps, when should I stop with open lock, do I bother with spot, etc. I do like having the hide/move silent in there. Fun for soloing.
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  8. #228
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Skwerl View Post
    Ok cool. This is the first time I will have made a rogue in a loooong time. There are lots of things I don't remember like where tumble caps, when should I stop with open lock, do I bother with spot, etc. I do like having the hide/move silent in there. Fun for soloing.
    THe Hide/move silent is also VERY handy for the lever in the subterranea that opens up VOD... you can just walk past all of them... and if you fall off.. go into sneak on the way down and your a-ok.

    I carry a lot of situational gear... tumble.. jump...balance...search... spot... hide... you get the idea...

    Tumble aim for 36 with an item to have fun doing backflips...(but buffed in showtime I have seen over a 70 in reaver so you take maybe 3 or 4 pts of damage from reverse gravity)

    The Skill point setup is great to the point where you will be able to put max ranks into all the standard rouge skills & Umd.
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  9. #229
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Per multiple requests I put up a skill breakdown. I had also mentioned that given it to do over I would also take intimidate... I stand by that and would re-assign some skill points into that to make it viable.. but how you guys do it is up to you...no way am I re-rolling.

    I also have completed the swap out of dragonmarks to THF, so I reassigned the action points to pick up some more sneak attack and boost my relfex saves up a bit more.

    41 titans...still no chattering ring...
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  10. #230
    Community Member tc12's Avatar
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    Can you add your intended level split for 20th to the OP? Sorry if I missed it in the long thread...

  11. #231
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Shure... ill tell you here tho.

    I plan on going 18/2 rouge monk. Kind of a gamble, but I am planning on Acrobat III to be something very cool and don't want to miss out.

    Hope there is a dev out there watching over me lol.
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  12. #232
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Oh and I know come mod 9 and the changes to tomes there will be 1 less skill point between levels 1 and 7...I would just reallocate some points around from the less important skills to make up for it.
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  13. #233
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Feats list updated to reflect a 20th level build .

    Umd was taken as a choice so that I could flawlessly use heal scrolls by lvl 20 without shroud gear to assist.

    Some may go a different route...great cleave is still an option...as is dropping Umd and cleave and taking Combat Expertise and Improved Trip (which first nicely with the flavor of a staff user)...CE is great for those dear god iimagonnadie moments Hit that and uncanny dodge and your +11 to ac in a matter of secconds...
    Last edited by The Phenx; 07-07-2009 at 10:46 AM.
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  14. #234
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    So I have a few questions/thoughts and would appreciate your input.

    Feats the way I see them at the moment:

    Lvl 1 THF
    Lvl 3 Cleave Power Attack(Bonus)
    Lvl 4 Toughness(Bonus)
    Lvl 6 Great Cleave
    Lvl 9 ITHF
    Lvl 12 Imp Crit-Bludgeon Crippling Strike(Bonus)
    Lvl 15 Stunning Blow Improved Evasion(Bonus)
    Lvl 18 GTHF

    Questions:
    1) Will Stunning Blow be useful if I take at lvl 15?
    2) Took Greater THF at lvl 18 since the ddo character planner does not show a BAB of+11. Didn’t u say it is possible to take at 15? (If so, would take GTHF at 15 and maybe CE at 18)
    3) How much of a difference is it in terms of gameplay if I take Great Cleave at 6 instead of Stunning Blow? (Guess I am thinking GC is passive and SB is active and may not always work, so trying to get you thoughts from actual usage)

    By the way, the Feats shown for levels 1, 3 and 4 have to be taken in that order. I don’t think the order you listed they would be available. For example, Cleave being the 4th feat would be the monk bonus feat at lvl 4 and it is not a selectable choice.

    And one Skill question - Can you elaborate on your earlier post that you would have taken Intimidate and why? I was thinking that you did not want the aggro in order to get the big sneak attack damage, so think I am missing something.

    THANKS!

  15. #235
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VowWoefist View Post
    So I have a few questions/thoughts and would appreciate your input.

    Feats the way I see them at the moment:

    Lvl 1 THF
    Lvl 3 Cleave Power Attack(Bonus)
    Lvl 4 Toughness(Bonus)
    Lvl 6 Great Cleave
    Lvl 9 ITHF
    Lvl 12 Imp Crit-Bludgeon Crippling Strike(Bonus)
    Lvl 15 Stunning Blow Improved Evasion(Bonus)
    Lvl 18 GTHF

    Questions:
    1) Will Stunning Blow be useful if I take at lvl 15?
    2) Took Greater THF at lvl 18 since the ddo character planner does not show a BAB of+11. Didn’t u say it is possible to take at 15? (If so, would take GTHF at 15 and maybe CE at 18)
    3) How much of a difference is it in terms of gameplay if I take Great Cleave at 6 instead of Stunning Blow? (Guess I am thinking GC is passive and SB is active and may not always work, so trying to get you thoughts from actual usage)

    By the way, the Feats shown for levels 1, 3 and 4 have to be taken in that order. I don’t think the order you listed they would be available. For example, Cleave being the 4th feat would be the monk bonus feat at lvl 4 and it is not a selectable choice.

    And one Skill question - Can you elaborate on your earlier post that you would have taken Intimidate and why? I was thinking that you did not want the aggro in order to get the big sneak attack damage, so think I am missing something.

    THANKS!
    Heh...I am busted... When I listed the feats it was post creation and Fred has not been very helpful in my going back...I tend to do my builds on the fly...I am going to steal your list if you don't mind...

    BAB is 10 @ lvl 15 so GTHF has to happen at 18th...you are correct.

    When I made that statement way back then I was unaware that the Full BAB of a centered monk did not count for calculating BAB for a feat. SO while his BAB was +11 2 lvl 15 while centered its only BAB 10 as far as the game is concerned.

    Both Great Cleave and Stunning blow have thier merits. Stunning blow shines against single mobs, and even if they save the 5% on the staff will tend to get them (no save vs that) I see about a 50-60% rate of stunning landing even in the shroud. This would increase if I could ever get my stinkin +3 tome.

    Great Cleave is fantastic in group fighting...cleave diplo great cleave diplo...etc you get the idea...just over time I felt that it was redundant...Didn't seem to be enough large groups to warrant it, and in the trash mob world I wanted a way to disable a mob for not just myself but the whole group.

    That being said you can cleave and great cleave with a 5% weighted staff and have great results as well. Think of it as an acrobats vorpal 5% chance to disable and kill a mob.

    Shroud earthgrab staff has similar results, except its reflex based instead of fort. Radiance works nicely as well. 10% to go auto S/A and after a few hits with crippling strike your at auto crit there as well.

    Its all in how you want to handle them and the crafting costs your willing to incur. Next I am going to make and try cleave/great cleave + radiance staff and give opinions about that. But that will be post mod 9.

    So really its all how you want to approach it....and if you can get your str high enough to make the stunning dc worthwile.

    Intimidate...yes the point is to do S/A damage, and diplo works great for that, there are just situations where it would have been nice to have to use to control a mob. You have the AC to not get hit so it would be nice to use it... just a personal thought with no data to back it up . But you will be getting and holding aggro a lot... so be ready for it.
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  16. #236
    Community Member Pittminion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Phenx View Post
    Tumble aim for 36 with an item to have fun doing backflips...(but buffed in showtime I have seen over a 70 in reaver so you take maybe 3 or 4 pts of damage from reverse gravity)
    With a charge and somebody tossing tumble on me, I've topped 100 in reaver. 1 pt of damage sometimes 2 when he pitches you up in the air. My boots are ff/10 tumble currently. Which gets switched out on the fly with my dp clickies. i've been collecting them and trading for boot versions just to try and have some semblance of order. I swear that damn reaver has it out for me. No loot except for the damned bracers (still trying to get ac bracers and GR outfit.)
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  17. #237
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Heh...damned reaver.. took me 40 runs to get the Head of good fortune.

    And a shoutout to Aussie for hooking me up with ac 8 bracers FINALLY!!! for a measly 500k

    Oh and the feat swap is done... seeing 17-22 pts per glancing blow.

    And in certain situations I like the heal scroll better than the dragonmarks... mid fight its not as good, but its unlimited...
    Last edited by The_Phenx; 07-15-2009 at 12:11 PM.
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  18. #238
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    So the original intent with going halfling was for the healing dragonmarks. Since you're going to swap out (or have already) your DM feats for THF feats, do you think a different race would server you better? WF perhaps to take advantage of the power attack enhancements? Or are the other pluses of being a halfling still making you glad you build like you did? What about a dwarf? I'm probably not going to roll another of these as 1.) I am out of slots at the moment and 2.) q-staves got rare and expensive since I leveled up

    I don't run Thwaak too much anymore.. (been gearing up a new sorc who finally got fun when she could FoD stuff ) so I'm not sure if I want to swap out for THF feats. Currently my self buffed UMD is only 36 (with boost) so I don't have no-fail heal scrolls yet. I'd LOVE to get the gloves from titan, and a 6 cha skill second shroud item would be fantastic, but I haven't even hit 20 runs on her yet for the cleansing stone. I got lucky and pulled the Head of Good Fortune before my 40th Reaver.

  19. #239
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    So the original intent with going halfling was for the healing dragonmarks. Since you're going to swap out (or have already) your DM feats for THF feats, do you think a different race would server you better? WF perhaps to take advantage of the power attack enhancements? Or are the other pluses of being a halfling still making you glad you build like you did? What about a dwarf? I'm probably not going to roll another of these as 1.) I am out of slots at the moment and 2.) q-staves got rare and expensive since I leveled up
    Yes the original intent was for healing marks. But it has several other advantages...which are nothing to scoff at.

    +1 ac
    +1 to hit
    +1 to all saves
    Access to Halfling Guile enhancements for more S/A Damage.
    Access to Halfling Dex
    Access to Halfling Luck Enhancements for up to +3 more to each save

    The warforged has power attack Enhancements
    thf glancing blows
    immunities while being
    harder to heal
    -1 to -3 less to hit. (if I forgot something sorry I don't play trees lol)

    So boiled down...

    Halflings are a little more survivable and better at Sneak Attack Damage... Warforged are better at direct damage.

    I think I still would have gone Halfling just because I like them better, But its all a choice, I have seen a few WF versions that are pretty cool all around.

    As for quarterstaves... yep.. I can't find them anywhere anymore... they used to be easy... last time I post a build I tell ya...


    Oh and the deciding factor of swapping out was when I finally got the gloves from Titan, so I knew I had reliable self healing to replace my dragonmarks...so why not go for the extra dps.

    To some folks the ability to self heal is no big deal so they wont mind at all.
    Last edited by The_Phenx; 07-28-2009 at 11:37 AM.
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  20. #240
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Feats list updated fully

    Thanks VowWoefist
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