Last edited by Aranticus; 01-23-2010 at 03:46 AM.
The greatest asset of a fighter is the feats they get. How you use the feat slots will determine how effective your fighter is.
Decisions on how to use the feat slots have to be based on what you have done with your starting stats. DDO (like most PC AD&D games) favors the min/max design process. A fighter should use his feat slots to support his build goal and he should assign his stats in that same way.
Fighters fill one of three roles.
1. Fighters are good at intimidating.
In this role they will want the best possible armor class and good hit points. The best armor class is obtained by using mithral full plate armor and a mithral tower shield. These place limits on the DEX bonus to AC. Fighters get enhancements that let them increase the DEX bonus. This is limited for Dwarves, by the tower shield enhancement level 3. For other races it is limited by the fighter armor enhancement level 3. The best effective DEX bonus you will get is +6. Every 2 stat points above 10 is a bonus and you should count on getting a +6 DEX item and +2 tome eventually. That means you should start with a DEX of 14.
A key feat for intimidating fighters is combat expertise. You need INT 13 for that feat. You can count on getting a +1 tome from the auction house if you manage your money. That means you should start with an INT of 12. Go with 13 if you don't think you can manage the tome.
Until you get all of the best gear you will need to have the HP to survive. That means a good CON score. How good is a matter of preference. In any case you should take the toughness feat at some point early in character development.
The most important stat is STR. Most groups will expect a fighter to have a STR above 25. You can use stat improvements through leveling up and tomes. You'll also get enhancements. You should count on being able to add +9 to any starting number. You will also, eventually, get a +6 STR item. That means you should start with a STR of at least 16.
CHA is the basis of intimidate but it doesn't need to be higher than the 8 starting value.
Feats go into improving AC and your intimidate skill, into increasing HP, improving shield defenses and then into improving weapon hit and damage numbers.
2. Fighters are good at causing damage.
This is usually referred to as DPS. The highest DPS comes from two weapon fighting. In this case you will not want to intimidate things because you probably won't have a spectacular AC. Instead you want to focus on getting the highest possible hit and damage rolls.
TWF requires high DEX. Improved and greater TWF require even higher DEX. You have to be able to reach at least DEX 17 and items can't add in. It is much harder to count on a +2 tome in this case because you probably shouldn't wait until you reach high levels before taking the extra TWF feats. Better to count on a +1 tome and go with a starting DEX of 16.
INT is no longer so important. Combat expertise is always a good feat to have. But, higher DEX leaves fewer points for stats and INT may be one that needs to suffer. Instead CON becomes more important.
STR continues to be the main focus and should still be geared to 25+.
Feats go into getting and improving TWF, increasing HP and improving weapon hit and damage numbers.
3. Fighters are good at using tactics.
Tactics are things like trip and sunder. These rely on STR. You no longer need TWF so DEX can scale back again to 14. STR should be as high as you can make it with remaining stat points going into CON.
Feats focus on improving your tactics, increasing HP, improving weapon hit numbers and then into improving weapon damage numbers.
These describe the main roles of fighters in DDO.
What is not described is the improvements that come from multiclassing. For example:
An intimidate based fighter can benefit from multiclassing with paladin. Three levels of paladin can be especially helpful.
A DPS fighter can benefit from multiclassing with ranger. Six levels of ranger gives access to Tempest Ranger for an extra +2 to AC when TWF and increased numbers of attacks when TWF. It also gives TWF and ITWF without spending feats as well as bow strength (for when ranged attacks are needed).
I agree with the OP.
Wizards are very flexible and you can use respec tokens plus cash to change out feats as needed. This means you don't need to be so concerned early on with what your final build will be like.
High INT and either DEX or CON are usually the way to go with stats.
this thread is awesome.
great articulation Leyoni, i wish i had this to refer to when i built my first.
cleric description added, thanks to Leyoni for the inputs
I'm sure you agree with me that this game is NOT about cookie-cutter builds. There are a million different combinations and permutations out there. You can take two characters with the same stats and between feats, enhancements, and skill point allocation you can have many different outcomes. Start adding in multi-class builds and the possibilities are almost endless. That is one of the joys of this game.
While I applaud your efforts to give newer players a solid foundation in the basics, I caution you against pigeon-holing any class through your descriptions. With my ranting caveat in place I hope you complete your list and I'll try and contribute when I have a little more time to post. Great work.
somehow forgot about this thread but with the influx of new players, i think its time for it to get updates. i appreciate all help from experienced players
No rogue love, huh? Not even listed in the (what appears to be) 'coming later' section?! I'll check back in a few days, and if it's still missing I'll have to give you -1 rep! If you say you've never played one, then I'll have to give you -1 rep every day for the rest of the week!
Or am I?
Just link to SableShadow's Notes from a Dancing Rogue in the compendium and you'll be done.
Excellent thread. If I could find the little rating button I'd give it 5 stars - is that only in the User Guides section of the forum?
Garth 20/ftr (Kensei) Haeson 20/clr Cairis 12/ftr 6/rgr 2/rog Xortan 20/wiz
Tinosa 20/brd Garthbot 20/fvs Gaarth 18/ftr 1/rgr 1/rog (Stal Def)
Tibetan 20/mnk Automatic DDO raid timers Haezon 20/sor (Conj)
behold the wall of text, will grow larger as time goes by!!
PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
less buffing, more nerfing!!!
to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"
paladin added, more to come
anyone can add anything on monks? not an experienced monk player
Being an older player from Mod1 through Mod 4.......... there has been a TON of changes and I may as well be a total noob.
This thread is proving to be VERY helpful in remembering some of those finer details for my classes that I have totally forgotten! Thank-you to the opposing insights as each have details that I can generate into a personal style.
I was hoping I could get you and others to write something on the newer Monk and Favored Soul classes. It's a bit frustrating to come back and have NO clue.
I disagree with everything I've read in the OP.
Unfortunately I had to rush off to work and only had time to read the word "Toon". It's "character"
20 Rogue Assasin
Currently on life 42 of 42 (Final Life!)
Great thread, thank you so much for this, it helps a lot. I love playing a ranger so I hope to see that added soon.
No pressure, just really like rangers and reading about rangers, but no pressure
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