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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkm View Post
    fireshield is better not a 3rd level spell
    ...
    slow - mr cow likes this one. single target for little benefit. pass AOE spell actually. still marginally useful
    missed some things jkm

  2. #42
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    Normally if I do not have a particular spell I do not post a thread about it, it is your decision you could be right, you could be wrong (If I somehow would drop the spell haste by ANY reason, just before I switch it to another one, something inside of me will wonder why 99.99% of the arcanes in this game use it).
    But I guess it is a good idea if you are a caster without the haste spell to inform the party in advance about your personal choice, even make a guild and start a trend ("hasteless use only haste potions" guild is not taken, or "we hate haste" or "I hate haste" until you can find your 1st twin soul)
    Really it opens a lot of questions.
    -Yes you can go in this game without it, but in my personal opinion a sorc/wiz/bard without haste is a game challenged character.
    VOD-Hound-Shroud-Abbot= You can go in with one caster (yes you can go without one, but you waste a significant amount of resources, if you go with two you are way better) what does a game challenged caster does? he would say: "please recruit and additional caster because I am game challenged one" or he will cast haste out of scrolls? or those quests are not a haste situation?
    The subterranea, the vale, the orchard? does the party can enter a debate about being situational enough?
    The gianthold? cabal on elite? come on! we used to run those quests (at least the people that were here for mod 4 release and I guess a lot more now leveling their characters with better equipment available) when we were level 12-13 and had way less spell points; You cannot cc, instakill, haste and buff a full party at an easily done quest at level 16? then haste is not your problem, the problem is sp management.
    -Curiously at low levels haste makes a bigger difference.
    -A caster is the most powerful character in the game, why? because it has a wide variety of spells, a caster can buff, debuff, insta-kill, crowd control, etc, if you are taking away the best buff ever (yes is the best overall buff spellpointwise/situational/# of players hit with) you are significantly lowering his potential.
    Or maybe a caster is angry at players that think that he is just a hastebot (maybe he has mid-arcane crisis, who knows) and he gets rid of that spell so he can tell those players:"go buy haste potions"
    Good thing is that we are gonna play ddo, and millions of times the spell haste will be casted all around the servers, millions of weapons (vorpals, paralyzers, smiters, banes, wounders, etc) will be swinged, thousands of heals will be cast, traps will be disabled, courage songs will be sung, but best of all, the community wil not tell you: "go kill an orthon with your scepter" will not let you lying on the floor bleeding to your death telling you: "you shoulda used another CSW potion mate" nor the rogue will say to you: "i am not disabling that elite trap that will kill you if you do not happen to have at least 500 hp or improved evasion, go buy something to disable it" (oh no! there are not potions of search/disable) nope, players will play, and will do the best they can.
    -Haste is definitely a situational buff, but really I cannot remember ANY situation where i would rather be without a haste on ANY character at ANY level on ANY mix of classes.
    -I guess it will be interesting to have a party where the warriors will not use their best weapon, a cleric will not use his best spell, a rogue that will not disable, a bard that wont sing his best song, a paladin not using his smite evil... Guess not, we all now where that party will be: way behind us, because we have a caster with haste.

  3. #43
    Community Member Thornfeld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vainangel View Post
    Listen, if you want to PUG with me understand I do not place the same value on haste you do.

    If you want it so bad, you spend the plat on a pot. I spend enough for Stoneskin. You can spend the same for your haste addiction.
    I also do not have him with Firewall.

    They are not the only 2 spells a caster can use.

    I just needed to make sure the ENTIRE server knows this so I can avoid the same horrible experience I just had.

    If it is a problem, put ALEXO on your ignore list now.
    Tell you what, why don't you start tipping every melee that uses a Bloodstone. The cost for haste is next to nothing. Melee's cost alot more to equip then any caster. I have a cleric and a wizard and both are fare cheaper then my one twf dwarf. Time to own up and take haste and stop waisting everyone's time.
    Elite Raiders
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  4. #44
    Community Member Yabba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornfeld View Post
    Tell you what, why don't you start tipping every melee that uses a Bloodstone. The cost for haste is next to nothing. Melee's cost alot more to equip then any caster. I have a cleric and a wizard and both are fare cheaper then my one twf dwarf. Time to own up and take haste and stop waisting everyone's time.
    Don't tell him to take haste. It's not our right to tell him how to play his character. It is our right to add him to our ignore list as he requested though.

  5. #45
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    I would do as the OP suggests, as well, if I were on Khyber.

    He'd probably be the butt of many, many, MANY jokes as well, among my friends.

  6. #46
    Community Member vainangel's Avatar
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    I want to thank everyone for thier slanted and insulting comments.
    ??* Worth[R]Elf ??* Kittu[R/P]Dwarf ??* Alexo[S]Drow ??* Amida[R]Elf ??* Krsna[R/F]Warforged ??* vainangel[F/W]Human ??* Cundi[FvS]Drow ??* ♪♫.we are sarcastic.♫♪

  7. #47
    Community Member incontinetia's Avatar
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    Default everyone gather for......

    Haste!!!!!

    Playing catch-up is tough. My 7th level sorc on Thelanis(Wofat) has no extend yet for quick lowbie speed leveling.
    He does however, have haste. I spam away the main melee and hit it when we are close together.
    Nobody seems to complain they still are always hasted!
    Not having haste is like saying " I enjoy not having friends on DDO!"
    Everyone benefits from the spell; when that cleric is a bit behind you can wait for him and haste you both!
    It is a great form of cleric love few can give!

  8. #48
    Community Member BurningDownTheHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vainangel View Post
    I want to thank everyone for thier slanted and insulting comments.
    OK, i grant you that you have been heavily flamed, and probably dont deserve it...
    Bottom line is, were you on my server, i to would not have grouped with you.
    In current end game content a caster that does not have web + (solid fog or acid fog) + (ta-da) haste, is considered a dead weight in the group.
    Current end game content does not allow (like say reaver raid) for many dead weights...
    I'm sorry OP, but thats just the way it is.
    Incinirate/Scracher/Pulverize/Saave/Intimidate/Extterminate/Assacinate/Dismemberr.
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  9. #49
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Play your char however you want.

    But you will get a reputation, one way or another......

    I did not take Haste for a long time on my Sorc. But my CC really made up for it, and most groups noticed it.
    Later, when I had higher lvl CC spells that made others redunant, and when I noticed everyone else had striders and was faster than me, I switched out and now have Haste.

    It is not the best thing you can take for your first lvl 3 spell. But it will help keep you alive as well as others. So eventually, you should take it. But that depends on what you want your build to be.

    Everyone wanting to run through a quest fast is not a good reason to take it. Those same people will sit around forever waiting for a cleric.

    But it makes the whole party more powerful.....very nice for a big fight.
    It also keeps you alive longer.......trust me.

    I hate the people who constantly demand it. But usually you can appease most people with just a few castings every now and then.

    If you are really uber, either by killing everything or CCing everything.....then you party will not need buffs. But usually it is in your best interest for those other guys to be killing as efficiently as possible.

    I don't think anyone should demand buffs.....or specific spells. But the best groups work together and compliment each other well.

    Haste is not necessary, but it's nice.....and very helpful.


    IMO, you and many of the people responding here need to learn to play well with others. refusing to cast a certain spell on princible isn't playing well with others.
    Demanding that someone play their char a certain way isn't either.
    And blacklisting them certainly isn't.

    I will never ask for buffs.
    And my Sorc didn't carry many for along time.....plus I still don't like giving out individual buffs often.
    But mass buffs are different. Haste is a mass buff (although short) Throwing it before someone opens a door is good practice.
    Throwing it at the begining of a dungeon is good to keep people off you back. That's what I do now.

    If you don't have it, fine......just get used to explaing that to everyone.

    But if you contribute very well in other ways, people will accept it.
    I gave up a life of farming to become an Adventurer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by vainangel View Post
    I want to thank everyone for thier slanted and insulting comments.
    No problem, anytime you want to post something as silly as this post i will be sure to post something sensible in response.
    Argonessen and Khyber Servers - Officer of Aces over Kings and Stormreach Thieves Guild
    http://www.srtg.org.au - Antir ~ Raegouli ~ Sussant ~ Servantir

  11. #51
    Community Member Gornn's Avatar
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    Alexo, you should know that part of the reason you're poked at is because the game is down which gives people more time to check the forums.

    What I will say is that Alexo is a good player and he's fun to play with.

    I'll group with him haste, or no.
    Gornn 3:16 says: Gornn just hugged yo' @$$!
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    "It's only elitist if you're not actually better than everyone else."

  12. #52
    Community Member Mithran's Avatar
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    Default If A, then B.

    Quote Originally Posted by vainangel View Post
    I want to thank everyone for thier slanted and insulting comments.
    As I indicated in my post, if you're tired of hearing people ask for it, pick it up. The focus of this game is being a member of a team, for the most part. I don't personally play a barbarian because the whole philosophy behind their play is too self-centered for my taste. They can't buff themselves, and the one barbarian I played I deleted because I was tired of being owned by EVERY kobold shaman I encountered. My main is 12 Paladin/2 Fighter/2 Rogue and I love playing her because while her Health Bar is too low for serious designation as a go-to main tank, she takes a lot less damage than other melee builds that I've seen, she can use scrolls to give herself Greater Heroism, Heal, Restoration, Raise Dead, and while she doesn't hit as hard as my Strength-based 13 Ranger/3 Paladin, the recent buffs to Exalted Smite have made me feel much better about her dps.

    Meanwhile, I stand by my earlier position:

    Do you expect clerics to expend their spell points in casting Heal on you, or do you assume they won't and carry three stacks of Cure Serious Wounds potions for yourself for each quest you run? The other important question posed to you was: What other spells do you carry?
    The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory. - Sun Tzu

  13. #53
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    Alexo, you should know that part of the reason you're poked at is because the game is down which gives people more time to check the forums.

    What I will say is that Alexo is a good player and he's fun to play with.

    I'll group with him haste, or no
    He may be fun to play with but it is hard to put aside a request that we put him on our ignore list.

    I like Gornn but i dunno about this Alexo character...
    Last edited by Raegoul; 08-04-2008 at 10:31 AM.
    Argonessen and Khyber Servers - Officer of Aces over Kings and Stormreach Thieves Guild
    http://www.srtg.org.au - Antir ~ Raegouli ~ Sussant ~ Servantir

  14. #54
    Community Member jkm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kahbel View Post
    Whenever im soloing(or running with a group in) a quest, I keep myself 100% hasted. Why? Because the speed allows me to not get hit. And theres way better things to wear than have a dedicated stride item.
    fixed that for you

    worth,

    i know your annoyed at the various flames here. however, what i'm trying to point out is that haste is the one of the best spells to keep YOU alive. there just isn't much in this game more fun than soloing a sorc. as such, you need a ton of spells that will keep you alive. haste, displacement, false life all go along way towards that. learning to herd, strafe, jump, spin and then nuke 50 mobs is something that sorcs can do with impunity. you have to enjoy that part of the content because in the current end game, the devs have taken away all the fun.

  15. #55
    Community Member Samadhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vainangel View Post
    I want to thank everyone for thier slanted and insulting comments.
    Slanted? Please provide why you think your level 3 spells serve the group better than haste. I'm all ears.
    sravana, kirtana, smarana, dasya, atma-nivedana
    ...NAMASTE...

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garyaxe View Post
    Alexo, you should know that part of the reason you're poked at is because the game is down which gives people more time to check the forums.

    What I will say is that Alexo is a good player and he's fun to play with.

    I'll group with him haste, or no.
    I would group with him as well and will add his characters to my friends list. I enjoy the company of people who are different, original and don't bend to peer pressure. I enjoy finding different ways to accomplish a goal.

    Who says this game has to be played only one way? Is everyone afraid to think outside the box? Is everyone is such a rush to get to the end that it's become the same thing over and over again? Yes Haste is a good spell but I think everyone relies on it waaay too much. It's really only needed for bosses or when a group is extremely outnumbered and in those situations a potion will do.

    I'm very sorry to say this but this entire thread sounds like a bunch of school aged children trying to pressure someone to conform to what they want. "If you don't haste me I won't heal/protect/play with etc etc you" I thought we were all adults yet many seem to resort to threats to get their way.

    So what if he choses to play differently? Have you grouped with him? How can you decide without ever playing with him that you will put him on your "do not play list"? You have no idea if he is valuable to a party or not. He may bring something to the group that you have never even considered before.

    One of my biggest annoyances with this game is the fact that when someone finds a way to do something pretty soon everyone is doing it that way and no one will even consider a different method because ""that's not the way it's done" sheesh. I've been in groups where a new tactic was going to be tried and a group member has gotten so upset that it wasn't done "The right way" that they have stormed off and left group. It's like the group member was a part of a herd of sheep blindly following one method and afraid to even consider the thoughts of the single black sheep.

    I'm sorry but whatever happened to originality and uniqueness or are those not allowed in this game?

    He may be an extremely good player and a valuable asset to any group but because he chooses not to carry haste you will never group with him therefore you will never know. That is what I find wrong with this entire thread. A player is getting blacklisted for his choices of what spells he carries without others even attempting to see if he can hold his own in a group.

    Oh and using the "what if a cleric doesn't heal" is lame. Many battle clerics don't heal others yet are still valuable group members. There are many different ways to play a class/character refusing to play with someone because they choose to be different.. well. you have all figured out by now what my opinion of the matter is.
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  17. #57
    Community Member Harncw's Avatar
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    I call shenanigans on this thread until the OP states what spells he does carry instead.
    /TELL Tackilack ~ Tackalack ~ Taq ~ Heartattack ~ Scrooge

  18. #58
    Community Member Samadhi's Avatar
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    To Talish -

    A quote I stole from someone's bio this weekend "It's ok to march to the beat of your own drum, just don't try to join a band."

    The OP stated that he didn't use haste and to /ignore him if this was a problem. Personally, I think it is very obvious who the non-team player is unless, as Harn suggested, it's all BS anyway.

    Some, but not all or even me, responders have tried to explain how haste is one of the best spells in the game. Some even asked what spells he used instead. The response from the OP was "I want to thank everyone for thier slanted and insulting comments."

    I really do agree that it can be annoying when everyone gets stuck in the "oneway" mentality; but at the same time, in the past more math minded people have shown quite explicitly why haste is the best DPS spell in the game. To completely throw out all attempts at helping the group by not even carrying the spell suggests to me a very non-team mentality - not originality. Good luck soloing; but I can't imagine trying to solo with my sorc without haste; so good luck reconsidering maybe.

    As a sidenote, most casters probably carry extend spell purely for the haste spell. This isn't only a spell slot, it's a feat, based around one spell. There is a reason for this; it work very very well at all levels of the game.
    sravana, kirtana, smarana, dasya, atma-nivedana
    ...NAMASTE...

  19. #59
    Community Member MissErres's Avatar
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    Oh goody. Yet another thread with a caster whining "I'M NOT A HASTE BOT!"

    Play how you want to man, if people don't like it then don't group with those people. Or yet, just rename your toon to "NOHASTE" and your problem is solved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    ~locks Erres in the ancient cage~

  20. #60
    Community Member FoxOne's Avatar
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    Default Gimped?

    Caster with no haste is barb with no rage,cleric with no heal,tank with no ac or dps,I wouldn't heal till I get a haste cause my cleric can't even keep up with the group being they are the slowest class...Or maybe just my dwarf cleric....In any case,no haste is a solo build in my book since it's one of the most helpful and cheapest group spells...

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