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  1. #1
    The Front Side Gratch's Avatar
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    Default Everybody to the Limit - AC Wise

    NOTE - THIS IS NOT AN ACTUAL BUILD. THIS IS A MIN/MAX STRAWMAN OF HOW TO ATTAIN VERY HIGH AC. IF YOU BUILD A MONK FOR AC... YOU WONT HAVE A LOT OF THESE... BUT POSSIBLY SOME OF THEM. AGAIN... THIS IS A LISTING OF MAXIMUM STACKING AC SOURCES FOR A MONK/RANGER THAT USES TWO KAMAS.

    Ranger6/Monk10 Halfling
    32 pt Stats: (8/20/10/10/16/8)
    base: 10
    halfling size: +1
    dex: +16 (20 + 3tome + 4L + 4Enh + 6item + 3except dex shroud kama +2wind stance=42)
    wis: +9 (16 + 3tome + 3Enh +6item=28 )
    monk L10: +2
    bracers: +8 (L15 RR-halfling)
    parrying shroud tier 3 kama: +4 insight
    Icy Raiment: +4 dodge +1 alchemical
    Cloak/Ring of Prot 5: + 5 deflection
    Chattering Ring: +3 dodge
    CE: +5 dodge (req +3 int tome)
    Dodge: +1
    BSkin: +3
    Tempest 2WF AC: +2
    Shield spell clicky/cake: +4
    TWF Defense Feat: +1

    Total: 79

    You could also add situational buffs:
    5 Aura (Paladin16)
    2 Natural (Ranger12)
    4 Inspire Heroics
    2 Recitation
    1 Haste
    3 Heroes Companion
    4 Mobility feat (while Tumbling) (Or more likely +2 twf blocking ac)

    AC: 100

    Edit: Added a big disclaimer at the top.
    Last edited by Gratch; 06-27-2008 at 03:19 PM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member wolfy42's Avatar
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    You could drop down to only 2 monk lvls (loose 2 wisdom and 2 centered AC) and grab 8 rogue levels to get improved uncanny dodge for a net 3 bonus situational AC (30 seconds a pop)....not really worth it though.

    That would allow you to get rogues haste boost though, a decent amount of sneak attack dmg that can be boosted from being a halfling and a whole slew of skill points.

    DPS would probably increase significantly though.....but I'm not sure if you can still qualify for GTWF that way.

    Lets see 6 ranger + 1 monk + 6 rogue...thats 13 BAB so you should qualify by lvl 15 for GTWF then.

    So your constant AC would drop a bit, but situationally you could boost it another 5 points (+6 ac for 30 seconds a pop...but your constant AC drops 3 points...so it's only a 3 point advantage over all.

    Not worth it for the AC by itself..but if your using dual kamas...your not going to be caring about the H2H bonuses of higher monk lvls. You do miss out on a bonus feat at monk 6 as well (and on max hp from monk levels lost)....along with wholeness of body etc which could be quite usefull.

    Think it's not worth it...but if your trying to the absolute highest buffed ac...well then yeah.....adding 8 rogue levels will probably do it.

  3. #3
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    The halfling sneak attack dmg does not require any levels in rogue though so you could have that regardless.

    Thats an insanely high AC though. Would be fun to try and get it.

    You might want to check the Dodge +s though. I though I was told that they capped at +10

  4. #4
    The Front Side Gratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikuryo View Post
    The halfling sneak attack dmg does not require any levels in rogue though so you could have that regardless.

    Thats an insanely high AC though. Would be fun to try and get it.

    You might want to check the Dodge +s though. I though I was told that they capped at +10
    I don't see a cap on dodge bonus in the SRD. I'm sure the first ranger to get the new outfit will respond. I should note that I've run ghosts on normal just as easily (~10mins in quest) with a group of 4 rangers + cleric + arcane as the normal arcane/cleric-only mixes so I don't think ghosts is the worst place to put the best dodge item in game. Well... except for monks...

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Dodge Bonus

    A dodge bonus improves Armor Class (and sometimes Reflex saves) resulting from physical skill at avoiding blows and other ill effects. Dodge bonuses are never granted by spells or magic items. Any situation or effect (except wearing armor) that negates a character's Dexterity bonus also negates any dodge bonuses the character may have. Dodge bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC, even other dodge bonuses. Dodge bonuses apply against touch attacks.
    I sort of just wanted to use this thread to list the maximums possible. I think standing maximums are probably more important than the clicky ones for normal play. I don't think most people are counting on 3 +3 tomes or making a shroud tier3 weapon with +3 dex (or wisdom on it) on it. Then again... maybe.
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  5. #5
    Community Member reefhut's Avatar
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    I thought parrying wep only gave +1 ac?
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  6. #6
    Community Member Beherit_Baphomar's Avatar
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    Shield spell/clickie doesnt stack with protection, does it?
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    Founder coolpenguin410's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beherit Baphomar View Post
    Shield spell/clickie doesnt stack with protection, does it?
    Shield of Faith would not, but the Shield spell would. Shield spell clickies only last 1 min, though.

  8. #8
    The Front Side Gratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reefhut View Post
    I thought parrying wep only gave +1 ac?
    Sorry... edited to note I was thinking of a shroud tier 3 +4 AC (insight) weapon

    The other kama would have shroud exceptional dexterity 3 on it... though in a real build the most I'd probably due is a dex +2 item so you get the burst effect at tier 2 on your kama. Then you only need a +2 dex tome and you've only lost 1 to ac total.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beherit Baphomar View Post
    Shield spell/clickie doesnt stack with protection, does it?
    Yeah... for some reason I was thinking one of the giantcrafted robes had a longer shield clicky... or even the dragon white robe... but it appears they are still CL1.

    So the only way to get a lasting "shield" spell is either to take a level of rogue/bard for some umd so you can use a shield wand (L10) for 10 minutes... this is what I do on my umd toon when soloing von4 with all the mm casting warforged. Hmmm... if you alternatively take 1 level of wiz or sorc... can you then use a shield L10 wand once you are 10th level? I can't remember how that works. I know a ranger 1/monk4 can use a CSW L5 wand.
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    DO NOT DO THIS. We are investigating.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gratch View Post
    I don't see a cap on dodge bonus in the SRD. I'm sure the first ranger to get the new outfit will respond. I should note that I've run ghosts on normal just as easily (~10mins in quest) with a group of 4 rangers + cleric + arcane as the normal arcane/cleric-only mixes so I don't think ghosts is the worst place to put the best dodge item in game. Well... except for monks...



    I sort of just wanted to use this thread to list the maximums possible. I think standing maximums are probably more important than the clicky ones for normal play. I don't think most people are counting on 3 +3 tomes or making a shroud tier3 weapon with +3 dex (or wisdom on it) on it. Then again... maybe.

    A guildy has a dodge bonus of +12 right now that adds to his ac, so I know it is at least that high.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Vizzini's Avatar
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    You forgot Defensive Fighting Stance

    Quote Originally Posted by Gratch View Post
    Just reviving and stealing from the thread on maximum Monk AC (assuming you have access to all loot):

    Ranger6/Monk10 Halfling
    32 pt Stats: (8/20/10/10/16/8)
    base: 10
    halfling size: +1
    dex: +15 (20 + 3tome + 4L + 4Enh + 6item + 3except shroud item=40)
    wis: +9 (16 + 3tome + 3Enh +6item=28 )
    monk L10: +2
    bracers: +8 (L15 RR-halfling)
    parrying shroud tier 3 kama: +4 insight
    Icy Raiment: +4 dodge +1 alchemical
    Cloak/Ring of Prot 5: + 5 deflection
    Chattering Ring: +3 dodge
    CE: +5 dodge (req +3 int tome)
    Dodge: +1
    BSkin: +3
    Tempest 2WF AC: +2
    Shield spell clicky/cake: +4
    TWF Defense: +1

    Total: 78

    You could also add situational buffs:
    5 Aura (Paladin16)
    2 Natural (Ranger12)
    4 Inspire Heroics
    2 Recitation
    1 Haste
    3 Heroes Companion
    4 Mobility feat (while Tumbling) (Or more likely +2 twf blocking ac)

    AC: 99

    Okay... what doesn't stack? What did I miss? I guess you could irk out more situational AC by replacing 4 monk levels and +1 ac with 4 fighter levels and a +3 ac boost. Are there higher ac monk-only or multi-class builds?
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  11. #11
    Community Member Vizzini's Avatar
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    Yes it does

    Quote Originally Posted by Beherit Baphomar View Post
    Shield spell/clickie doesnt stack with protection, does it?
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  12. #12
    Community Member Vizzini's Avatar
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    Don't forget about Titan Cookies those last longer than 1 min.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gratch View Post

    Yeah... for some reason I was thinking one of the giantcrafted robes had a longer shield clicky... or even the dragon white robe... but it appears they are still CL1.

    So the only way to get a lasting "shield" spell is either to take a level of rogue/bard for some umd so you can use a shield wand (L10) for 10 minutes... this is what I do on my umd toon when soloing von4 with all the mm casting warforged. Hmmm... if you alternatively take 1 level of wiz or sorc... can you then use a shield L10 wand once you are 10th level? I can't remember how that works. I know a ranger 1/monk4 can use a CSW L5 wand.
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  13. #13
    Community Member InfidelofHaLL's Avatar
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    if somone ever made this i would laugh at them what are they gonna do just stand ina quest and do nothing cuz they wouldnt do any dmg at all

  14. #14
    Uber Completionist Lithic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfidelofHaLL View Post
    if somone ever made this i would laugh at them what are they gonna do just stand ina quest and do nothing cuz they wouldnt do any dmg at all
    Vs trash mobs they could vorpal as well (or better) than any other melee type.

    Vs bosses... well that would be the one problem
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  15. #15
    Community Member jmonty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzini View Post
    You forgot Defensive Fighting Stance
    doesn't stack with CE.

  16. #16
    Community Member InfidelofHaLL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithic View Post
    Vs trash mobs they could vorpal as well (or better) than any other melee type.

    Vs bosses... well that would be the one problem
    oh yay for vorpal clones let me see how many 0's i can see before I might get lucky enough to roll a 20 /me claps

  17. #17
    The Front Side Gratch's Avatar
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    I was more playing around with the maximum limits of AC opened by the monk class. I'm not suggesting to use the values specifically as stated - just discussing the maximums - hence the title about taking AC to the limit.

    As to actual application, if wind stance is updated to add any &#37;'age over haste, you're now talking about a faster twf than any other class (though they may also make it so it doesn't stack with tempest).


    With such a high dex, you won't be missing much with finesse. As to how to apply a high ac, low dps character to boss fights. You don't have the dps to steal aggro, so you'd really need to go with intimidation... which may mean a level of rogue or fighter for a max'ed intimidate ranks. But now... with an unprecedented level of AC... you go up to the pit fiend or the winged devil... and intimidate him constantly and put the DPS behind the boss even on elite. Clerics will thank you. Well... the ones seeing you're saving them from constant party healing/decursing.

    I've noticed in Vision... boss control and intimidation with an evading, high will save (avoids cursing) and high ac character... really makes the difference on resource use.
    Last edited by Gratch; 06-24-2008 at 05:16 PM.
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    DO NOT DO THIS. We are investigating.

  18. #18
    Community Member hydra_ex's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    This build has no DPS and is thus useless weilding anything but vorpals or WoP. Therefore it is useless to make a shroud weapon(s), lowering your ac by 5. Also, since this build is extremely tome dependant and probably not a very useful one, the amount of +3 tomes that this build will get is minimal. The tome you can most benefit from, INT, will be very hard to aquire since no one who gets the tome will see a useful benefit of +5 ac (and -5 to dmg) vs a wizard's SP and DCs. If you were to rearrange your stats a bit, you can get a nice 60ish a,c with no shroud items nor +3 tomes, using only the gear you provided here (excluding +8 armor bracers rr hafling) and decent damage as well as UMD.

    Take rouge levels, and only 2 monk levels, and the rest ranger.
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  19. #19
    The Front Side Gratch's Avatar
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    Again... there are already a number of monk ac "builds" posted. I was just going with the min/max vantage point of what could be done if pushed to the limit - hence the thread title. Wanted to see if I could hit 100 AC on DDO planning paper. In a real build, I would only go with +2 tomes and probably wouldn't blow the 6 attribute points to get a 20 starting dex (leaving more points for int/str/con). I am going to guess most high level ac monks will be farming in Ghosts of Perdition and will make a shroud tier 3 +4 ac insight kama.

    I can easily see an ac ranger/monk hitting an 80 ac from raid level buffing and being the centerpiece to the new high level raid runs... but only if they have intimidate to grab and control the aggro. Which is kind of interesting and is only coming to light with the changes to intimidate and the added ac items sprinkled into the game as of Mod 7. 60 AC is a resource hog in Visions elite... 70 is better by far.

    I don't know that DPS is king. I don't think monks by default will ever be on the high end of the DPS curve. Otoh, I've seen a lot of naked DPS kings in Visions and stunned DPS kings in Hound recently. Saves, AC, and aggro management help decrease resource use and allow for hard/elite runs of the new content. It's sort of a nice change from the Shroud where it was all DPS+healing+buffs. Though you still need DPS in the new stuff (and probably the majority)... just not an entire team of DPS.
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  20. #20
    Community Member UriahHeep's Avatar
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    Default Highest AC possible for a ranger/monk build would be more appropriate

    Ummm......did I read this wrong? 6ranger/10monk? That's not a monk build, it's a ranger/monk build, is it not? Honestly many of the numbers you have presented are from the ranger class and therefore cannot be counted. Thought I would mention that in case you missed that you put ranger specs into "monk" build.
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