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  1. #1
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    Default WF S2HF UMDish Ranger

    This build is not the optimal ranger, nor is it the optimal anything. It's based on a level 20 cap which has yet to appear. However I think it will be playable even to high levels using UMD to displace, already having a built-in WF resistances, DR 10(free stoneskin), evasion( after level 13, swapping out the body feat), and a fighter haste to supplement UMD'd haste scrolls. The energy resistance will be very nice as well as having the ability to use dual weapons or bows but primarily I wanted a "Superior 2HF" that has the speed and resistances of a ranger..

    I'm curious to hear what people will have to say about this build
    .
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.85
    (with levels 17-20 added manually)

    Maskim Xul
    Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male

    (6 Fighter / 12 Ranger / 2 Rogue)
    Hit Points: 268
    Spell Points: 178

    Base Saves
    F: 13
    R: 13
    W: 6 (+3 wf construct thinking)

    Ending
    Base Stats

    Abilities
    (Level 20)

    22 Strength
    8 Dexterity
    18 Constitution
    10 Intelligence
    12 Wisdom
    6 Charisma

    Ending
    Base Skills
    (Level 20)

    20 Jump
    20 Spot
    20 Swim
    23 UMD
    13.5 Repair

    Level 1 (Fighter1)
    Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body
    (Swap to: Improved Damage Reduction @ Lvl 13)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting

    (1)Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    (3)Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction I
    (4)Enhancement: Warforged Construct Thinking I

    Skill: Jump (+4) [4]
    Skill: Repair (+4) [4]


    Level 2 (Ranger1)
    (5)Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistence Boost I
    (6)Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    (7)Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
    (8)Enhancement: Ranger Spot I

    Skill: Jump (+1) [5]
    Skill: Swim (+5) [5]


    Level 3 (Ranger2)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction

    (9)Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore I
    (10)Enhancement: Ranger Tundra Lore I
    (11)Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore I

    Skill: Jump (+1) [6]
    Skill: Spot (+4) [4]
    Skill: Swim (+1) [6]


    Level 4 (Ranger3)
    Ability Raise: STR

    Skill: Jump (+1) [7]
    Skill: Swim (+1) [7]
    Skill: Spot (+3) [7]
    Skill: Repair (+0.5) [4.5]


    Level 5 (Ranger4)
    (13)Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
    (15)Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistence Boost II
    (17)Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost II
    (18)Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I

    Skill: Jump (+1) [8]
    Skill: Spot (+1) [8]
    Skill: Swim (+1) [8]
    Skill: Repair (+1.5) [6]


    Level 6 (Fighter2)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction

    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting

    (20)Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    (22)Enhancement: Warforged Construct Thinking II

    Skill: Repair (+2) [8]


    Level 7 (Fighter3)
    (26)Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction II
    Skill: Repair (+2) [10]


    Level 8 (Ranger5)
    Ability Raise: STR

    (27)Enhancement: Ranger Item Defense I
    Skill: Jump (+2) [10]
    Skill: Spot (+2) [10]
    Skill: Swim (+2) [10]


    Level 9 (Ranger6)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction

    (29)Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore II
    (31)Enhancement: Ranger Tundra Lore II
    (33)Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore II

    Skill: Jump (+2) [12]
    Skill: Spot (+2) [12]
    Skill: Swim (+2) [12]


    Level 10 (Ranger7)
    (36)Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistence Boost III
    (39)Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost III

    Skill: Jump (+1) [13]
    Skill: Spot (+1) [13]
    Skill: Swim (+1) [13]
    Skill: Repair (+1.5) [11.5]


    Level 11 (Fighter4)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting

    (42)Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost III
    (44)Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II

    Skill: Repair (+2) [13.5]


    Level 12 (Rogue1)
    Ability Raise: STR

    Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction

    (47)Enhancement: Warforged Construct Thinking III
    Skill: UMD (+8) [8]


    Level 13 (Rogue2)
    Skill: UMD (+8) [16]


    Level 14 (Fighter5)
    (53)Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction III
    Skill: UMD (+1) [17]


    Level 15 (Ranger8)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction

    (55)Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild II
    Skill: Jump (+2) [15]
    Skill: Spot (+2) [15]
    Skill: UMD (+1) [18]


    Level 16 (Fighter6)
    Ability Raise: STR

    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Two Handed Fighting

    (59)Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Skill: UMD (+1) [19]


    Level 17 (Ranger9)

    Skill: Jump (+2) [17]
    Skill: Spot (+2) [17]
    Skill: UMD (+1) [20]


    Level 18 (Ranger10)

    Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction

    (63)Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost IV
    (67)Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistence Boost IV
    (71)Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost IV

    Skill: Jump (+2) [19]
    Skill: Spot (+2) [19]
    Skill: UMD (+1) [21]


    Level 19 (Ranger11)
    (74)Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore III

    Skill: Jump (+1) [20]
    Skill: Spot (+1) [20]
    Skill: Swim (+3) [16]
    Skill: UMD (+1) [22]


    Level 20 (Ranger12)
    Ability Raise: STR

    (77)Enhancement: Ranger Tundra Lore III
    (80)Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore III

    Skill: Swim (+4) [20]
    Skill: UMD (+1) [23]

    Last edited by Ereshkigal; 05-14-2008 at 08:02 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Posted by Impaqt before thread was moved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    The Only thing I can say is that Superior Two handed fighting doesnt exist and msot likely never will.
    ..

  3. #3
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    Default

    Ah so it's a mistake that it is listed in the DDO Char Gen? If so then I would drop two levels of fighter in favor of 2 more levels of ranger.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ereshkigal View Post
    I'm curious to hear what people will have to say about this build
    There's a pretty major mistake.

    You take two levels of rogue, which gives no real benefit aside from a bunch of skill points. Then you spend those skill points on Repair and Swim, which means they are completely wasted.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    There's a pretty major mistake.

    You take two levels of rogue, which gives no real benefit aside from a bunch of skill points. Then you spend those skill points on Repair and Swim, which means they are completely wasted.
    I'm not sure if I am not seeing what you're saying, but I see where i put 16 points into UMD during those 2 levels of rogue and at level 13 when I gain the evasion feat I'm swapping out the Adamantine body feat for another improved damage reduction feat which should allow evasion to work. Admantine body was nice at lower levels for the short-term AC boost.

    but perhaps I'm not understanding you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ereshkigal View Post
    I'm not sure if I am not seeing what you're saying
    I'm saying you have skill points in Swim and Repair. That means you're wasting skill points, because those skills are useless.

    If you feel like you have enough skill points to waste them, then you don't need the second rogue level, because the only benefit of rog2 is more points.

  7. #7

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    It takes a really really long time for this build to put together a workable UMD score and when you do it is only passable. You are also looking at taking evasion without an especialy good reflex save which doesn't really do a lot for you. Its not terrible but its not especialy impressive. Likewise accuracy with bows is quite poor even if damage is decent.

    There is no superior THF feat as of yet in game. It was on the drawing board at one time but wasn't implimented.

    While the DR is nice and all, I'm not sure its worth all that effort to get it. You really should take power attack and improved critical at a minimum for damage considerations. Both are as good or better than the THF feats in most cases.

    Swim really isn't very usefull. Balance, even as a cross class skill is usualy a better investment.


    It's hard to comment when you don't show your starting stats and such.. generaly I'd say you should shift wisdom into dex and cast by wearing a wisdom item. Possibly move str into other stats (depends on what you started with) Drop the 2 rogue levels and the attempt at UMD (you get evasion at ranger 9 btw).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    I'm saying you have skill points in Swim and Repair. That means you're wasting skill points, because those skills are useless.

    If you feel like you have enough skill points to waste them, then you don't need the second rogue level, because the only benefit of rog2 is more points.
    Evasion is not a benefit?

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ereshkigal View Post
    Evasion is not a benefit?
    You already get it from ranger 9. Also evasion isn't especialy usefull without a strong reflex save. Yours is probably high enough to get some use out of it but not a whole bunch.
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  10. #10
    Community Member BLAKROC's Avatar
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    no need for rogue levels for evasion as you will get it from 9th ranger level. frankly this build looks similiar to many others already posted.

    and 268 hp at lvl 20?
    maybe you need to re- plan this one so you can get some solid feedback.
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    Thanks for the advice so far. I appreciate it. You've pointed out some rather obvious things that I've missed.

    What I'm wanting to do may or may not be possible but it's beyond my talents as a character builder at the moment... obviously

    Here's what I want.

    WF: 2HF (all feats)
    DR 10
    Good energy resists.
    Ability to reach 40 points in jump and swim.
    Good running speed.
    High Base attack bonus.
    Some way to cast Displacement

    I am a poor character. I thought DR ( even though it takes a lot of feats ) would save coin on Stoneskin scrolls and that Fighter Haste might save on haste scrolls/pots. Any advice on how to achieve the above with the least useage of gold (because I dont' have much ) would be awesome.

    thanks again for the feedback.
    Last edited by Ereshkigal; 05-14-2008 at 08:50 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ereshkigal View Post
    However I think it will be playable even to high levels using UMD to displace, already having a built-in WF resistances, DR 10(free stoneskin), evasion( after level 13, swapping out the body feat), and a fighter haste to supplement UMD'd haste scrolls.
    Warning: Haste from scrolls is a trap. Compared to the short duration of the spell, the time it takes to stow your weapon and get it back out is too much of a penalty. If you want to spend money to haste yourself, just use potions, which don't need UMD. Of course, you'll hardly ever need to self-haste anyway, because bards, sorcerers, and wizards will cast it for you in normal situations.

    The same goes for Displacement scrolls, although they're not quite as bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ereshkigal View Post
    The energy resistance will be very nice as well as having the ability to use dual weapons or bows but primarily I wanted a "Superior 2HF" that has the speed and resistances of a ranger.
    Be warned that taking the Two-Handed Fighting feats on a ranger is a mistake. I assume you know this and intentionally want to do something that's weak, for the sake of being different.

    But as a general matter, TWF is better than THF, as long as you're able to qualify for it and find enough good weapons. (Obviously, with your 8 dex you don't qualify for TWF except as a ranger bonus, and you're not taking enough ranger levels)

    Also remember that Weapon Specialization, Power Attack, and Improved Critical all do more to improve Two-Handed Fighting than the actual THF feats do.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ereshkigal View Post
    Here's what I want.
    WF: 2HF (all feats)
    DR 10
    Good energy resists.
    Ability to reach 40 points in jump and swim.
    Good running speed.
    High Base attack bonus.
    Some way to cast Displacement
    The problem is that some of the things you want aren't good.

    In particular, 40 swim is well, a complete and total waste. But also the 2HF feats are not a good objective. If you want to do damage with a two-handed weapon, first you need Power Attack and second you need Improved Crit.

    Here's a suggestion:
    Ranger15/Rog1, full ranks of UMD. Forget the THF feats, but you can still train DR feats if you really want.

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    so, what you're saying really is that if I MUST have the 2HF fighting feats it should only be after I get the specializtion, power attack, etc.... as those do more to help. And the way to do that would be a fighter wizard, dropping the DR feats in favor of extended self-cast stoneskin, haste, displacment...

    say wizard 8, the rest fighter?

    but then again I really don't want to give up the 4 bab needed to get the wizard 8...especially if I'm going to get Power Attack..... then also if i have 8 levels of wizard does it make sense to not go for reconstruct? ...bah I was really hoping to use ranger to get my spellcasting
    Last edited by Ereshkigal; 05-14-2008 at 09:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ereshkigal View Post
    so, what you're saying really is that if I MUST have the 2HF fighting feats it should only be after I get the specializtion, power attack, etc.... as those do more to help.
    That's true. For example, your typical THF barbarian has feats in THF, Power Attack, ITHF, Imp Crit, and GTHF. Barbarians don't qualify for Weapon Spec, but if they could take it they would.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ereshkigal View Post
    And the way to do that would be a fighter wizard, dropping the DR feats in favor of extended self-cast stoneskin, haste, displacment...
    I suspect you are overestimating the value of self-casting those spells. Remember that it is both possible and probable for someone else to cast them on you.

    Also if you do the Shroud raid, you can get magic items to cast all of them without any abilities of the character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post


    I suspect you are overestimating the value of self-casting those spells. Remember that it is both possible and probable for someone else to cast them on you.

    Also if you do the Shroud raid, you can get magic items to cast all of them without any abilities of the character.
    I pug. I'm not in a guild, which means I want to be able to cast these things when the group can not or will not. While I agree that teamwork should enhance a build, I don't believe that a build should ever completely DEPEND on someone else buffing it. I cannot see surviving without displacement with this build...

    I keep rerolling my characters as I find flaws and though i have several they range from levels 4-7, so my income is low. Which means I want to survive as cheaply as possible and I'd like to get a build up to the higher levels.... shroud raids are not something I can realistically count on to fill my needs. Not yet anyway.
    Last edited by Ereshkigal; 05-14-2008 at 09:35 PM.

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    What about a 10/9/1 Fighter/Bard/Wizard. Still could use the standard feats for damage reduction (no need for stoneskin), could self cast haste and displacement, would have 6 fighter feats for the 3 THF, power atack, imp crit and weapon spec, and still have 17 bab at level 20... The level of wizard would give the Extend feat....

    would that be more viable route ?

  18. #18
    Community Member Wildseed's Avatar
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    Default Improved evasion is a reason

    Quote Originally Posted by BLAKROC View Post
    no need for rogue levels for evasion as you will get it from 9th ranger level. frankly this build looks similiar to many others already posted.

    and 268 hp at lvl 20?
    maybe you need to re- plan this one so you can get some solid feedback.
    This build with 2 rogue/9 ranger will get improved evasion, that is a reason to keep it like it is. I do agree with the hp assessment though, perhaps should try to squeeze out a little more con at low lvls

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rei Half-elven View Post
    This build with 2 rogue/9 ranger will get improved evasion, that is a reason to keep it like it is.
    No. You cannot get Improved Evasion without rog10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ereshkigal View Post
    I pug. I'm not in a guild, which means I want to be able to cast these things when the group can not or will not. While I agree that teamwork should enhance a build, I don't believe that a build should ever completely DEPEND on someone else buffing it.
    Conversely, when you're high level and the 2500 sp sorcerer is tossing around Haste, Displacement, Stoneskin, and sonic resist without even checking if the target had it already because he's got so many spellpoints he doesn't even care...

    At that point, you may be disappointed that your character spent so many levels to get something that is zero benefit anymore, when you could've instead used those levels and feats to help you fight, or do something else that the true spellcasters don't render obsolete.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ereshkigal View Post
    I cannot see surviving without displacement with this build...
    That's rather a circular argument. Most builds do not need Displacement to survive, or else they are arcane casters anyhow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ereshkigal View Post
    I keep rerolling my characters as I find flaws and though i have several they range from levels 4-7, so my income is low.
    So, are you saying you've never had a DDO character above level 7? That indicates you don't have the experience to judge what is and isn't valuable at medium-high level of gameplay.

    In particular, Displacement isn't something that any level 7 character should hope to see used very much.

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