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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Depravity View Post
    Aranticus did that thread on conversational chinese...maybe we should see if he'll translate something rather rude for us to respond with (assuming chinese/chinese speaking platfarmers, this may or may not be the case).

    I could put up the phrase I would like, but it would probably show up all in asterisks/giant flashing "Hey Cube! Over here"

    Haven't been getting huge numbers of these, and they rarely really bother me.
    couldnt resist so i have to post

    "ni hao, qing ni bang wo xiang ni mu qing wen sheng hao." = hi, please help me send my regards to your mother

    this is as "polite" as a rude remark it can get. i can post the really disgusting ones...... unless you are willing to absorb the infractions for me
    If you want to know why...

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quanefel View Post
    Didn't you all know that "simply" by ignoring the spam tells, the problem is solved? That by ignoring them, they will go away? At least that is what many others keep telling me over the last two years of them spamming players. Strange, how ignoring them has not changed anything nor stopped the plat spam. Well, I guess maybe someday if we keep "ignoring" them that by magic they will somehow go away on their own?
    Apparently they sell enough plat to make it worth the effort. What's Turbine to do though? I've been noticing a nice influx of new legitimate players so gimping trial accounts might not be such a good idea... I've seen a lot of passionate arguments were the root of the issue is plat selling. It's not a simple issue.

  3. #23
    Community Member Zaodon's Avatar
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    Gold Spammers are using some form of macro/automated scripting to send these tells. I know this for a fact, because of how I was contacted yesterday.

    I rolled a new character, forgot to mark "Anonymous". I got a plat spam.
    Marked anonymous.
    Logged off.
    Logged on the next day out by the lighthouse in the Harbor. No one was physically near me (so no one could see my character). Did not have LFM or LFG up.
    Got a plat spam.

    That is when I realized that the plat spammers are vaccuuming the /who list into an offline file.

    They then use this offline file (1 file per server, I would imagine) and a macro tool or scripting tool, to log into DDO, spam /tells to the names in the file, and then log off and delete the character.

    They do this on a trial account. If the account is banned, they do it again on a new trial account.

    So, Turbine DOES have a solution to this problem. They could limit the /tells per second on trial accounts to 1 tell/3 seconds. Then, if any trial account character sends 20 tells in a minute (which is precicely 1 every 3 seconds), you auto-ban that account.

  4. #24
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomalon View Post
    Well it's time to renew this topic, again.

    Maybe one of these days turbine will get a clue....
    I know this has been talked about (alot) and many many ideas have been thrown out there as to how to stop the tells from trial accounts. ALL i ask is: turbine please pick one and put it in to game, soon!!!

    BTW best idea out there right now is: make it so tells can only go to one person at a time and put a 30 sec/ 1 minute cool down timer on tells. (like you have on the forums) This will still let noobs send tells to get ?s answered but it will slow down the platframers so much it wont be worth the time.

    what ever way you choose just PLEASE pick one and put it in game.
    I agree with you Tom, something needs to be done.

    Turbine HAS come a long way. I mean, we do not get plat mails anymore, thankfully.

    I am very tired of the disruption to my gameplay from these annoying little pukes. Annon does nothing to prevent you from being spammed by them, reporting them does not seem to do much, and spamming "FREE TIBET" back at them, while gives some instant gratification, does nothing to solve the problem.

    Now that DDOC is closed, me thinks it will only get worse. How soon before we see "English Only" LFM's?

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
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  5. #25
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    While we are at it lets eliminate all SPAM (including the manufactured meat variety).

    Don't forget the telemarketers, billboards, flashing neon signs, those pamphlets stuck under your windscreen wipers and the fifty layers of branded packaging on a hamburger.

    If you limit trial account the farmers will hack the client to bypass the filter (or use stolen CCs to open accounts or so other way).

    This will require a design where all additional validation of all tells, prior to transmission, happens on the server. So expect a performance hit as the DB struggles to keep up.

    All a limit to trial accounts will result in is annoying players.
    Jesus saves but only Buddha makes incremental backups.

  6. #26
    Community Member liamfrancais's Avatar
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    While I too am annoyed by plat spammers for me at least it is not the actual tell that annoys me per se it is the Volume 11 [I]"Ding"[I] it makes I have suggested before that they allow us to change or mute the sound tells make especially since at least to my ears it is the same as a party member message or a party member death both of which are usually important. Most of the tells I get are not important usually people looking for another for a group, someone saying hello and of course plat spammers. So let us set or mute the sound for tells and I think many people will not be so annoyed by these advertisements.
    Liamfrancais- Human Pally 16 (Mythical), Balto-Drow Sorc 16 (Mythical), Baltaz-Drow Rgr 16 (Forgotten Legion), Adarforged-WF Barb 16 (Mythical), Bringit-Dwarf FTR/barb 12/4 (Just Me), Zudomon-Elf wiz 15 (Twisted Fate), Rudadonna-H clr 16 (Mythical)

  7. #27
    Community Member thatguy's Avatar
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    Obviously some people must be using the services of Plat sellers or they wouldn't exist. Limiting the ability of what trial accounts can do seems to make the most sense to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by DelScorcho View Post
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  8. #28
    Founder Hambo's Avatar
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    Anyone else getting spammed by the same account multiple times at a rate of about one message/second? They probably do this because "*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*" is more attention-getting than a single "DING".

    While I can understand Turbine setting things up so that we can only report ONE of the messages (we wouldn't want a single message reported multiple times to inflate the numbers after all), the statistics on some accounts are off because only one of the 2-5 duplicates can be reported.

    As has been stated elsewhere, it does no good to ignore the spammers... They're still here.

    It doesn't do any good to tell the forums not to buy plat/items as there are too many [bodily fluid of choice]-poor players who ARE buying from the sites who probably don't even read the forums.

    To include a constructive note in this post, my soulution to the spam annoyance was to create a new tab in my chat window to recieve tells (I call it "Tells") and remove tells from every other tab. This way I don't have important text in the chat screen scrolled until all I see is a mass of spam. When I hear the "DING" of a tell, I select "Tells" when I get a free moment to report the spam, unless it's one of those rare occaisions when I get a valid tell.
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  9. #29
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    Last night was out of control...and after the first time the guy did it, I couldn't 'Report Plat Spammer' on him anymore, it was grayed out, it just allowed me to do it once...not like any of that helped at all. This guy was goin' all out on Ghallanda though, what a pain.

  10. #30
    Community Member ShadowDragon665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    Obviously some people must be using the services of Plat sellers or they wouldn't exist.
    Exactly.

  11. #31
    Community Member JoeyJoJoJr's Avatar
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    i'd like to have the option to select where my tells are coming from.
    • friends
    • party members
    • guild members
    • non trial accounts


    maybe not that list specifically, but something to narrow it down.... at least have the option to block trial accounts. if i am running on my lowbie with trial account level appropriate players then i can leave it checked off... but when running my capped toons there's not really much of a reason for a trial account player to contact me besides to sell me plat&items
    Riedra(RIP): Joeyjojo(Src16), Joeyjo(Clr16) Joeybot(Brb15/Ftr1), Shabado(Clr16), Shabs(Rng16), Shabadoo(Src15)

  12. #32
    Community Member Moragon's Avatar
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    I don't think it would be necessary to charge for a trial account as long as a valid card is required to open it. Just change the EULA to indicate that if the account is used to generate spam, it will be charged for one month as well as canceled.

    The other idea would be to use a client-side filter. This would provide a couple of options. Either the DEVs could update a master list of words or phrases that should be used to cancel the delivery of a message and include it as a download following standard maintenance, or the end user could provide the list, or both.

    The complete content of the list should be visible to all users.

    Doing the filtering at the client will keep the performance of the servers (such as it is) intact.

    Just make sure the make the filtering case-insensitive to avoid the mess of mixed-case variations.

  13. #33
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    Exclamation

    You guys are putting too much thought into this.

    Is it really that hard to block spammers??

    Put a delay on the messaging system. Give /tells a 1-2 second delay between outgoing messages. Mass messages will stop...

    They may use the 'friends' list to add names from their database to check and see who is online before they send a message out. Add a 1-2 second delay to adding names to your 'friends' list.

    Voila! Messages stop.

    This would also keep new people trying out the game from being alienated, and not put so many unnecessary restrictions on trial accounts.

    Do I get some free play time for finding the solution?
    Last edited by Shagn; 07-08-2008 at 11:42 AM.

  14. #34
    Community Member TehSilence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomalon View Post
    BTW best idea out there right now is: make it so tells can only go to one person at a time and put a 30 sec/ 1 minute cool down timer on tells. (like you have on the forums) This will still let noobs send tells to get ?s answered but it will slow down the platframers so much it wont be worth the time.
    Yeah, count me on the side of those who think this would be too limiting. Even fifteen seconds would be too long for the simple tell conversations I have with my friends. We are all developers or former developers so we type really fast.

    I still think the filterable tells for trial accounts and blacklist of URLs would solve over 90% of the plat spam.

    Also, the thing you wrote about tells only going to one person at a time... I didn't know you could send tells to more than one person. If that's true, then this likely would be a good thing to limit.

    -Silence

  15. #35
    Community Member TehSilence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deriaz View Post
    Just ignore them. It isn't the greatest solution, but ignoring does help. . . Soon as I see that random letter name, I look back to what I'm doing.
    Ignoring it is basically what we're all doing now. I mean, reporting them as plat spammers then moving on essentially takes a couple of milliseconds longer than glancing down and back up.

    BUT... Ignoring it means the plat spammers win!! Heh heh. I mean, their ideal solution is for everyone to ignore them other than the ones that want to buy their tainted gold. That assures them a booming business in DDO and any other MMO that follows suit.

    -Silence

  16. #36
    Community Member TehSilence's Avatar
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    Default Best Solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaodon View Post
    So, Turbine DOES have a solution to this problem. They could limit the /tells per second on trial accounts to 1 tell/3 seconds. Then, if any trial account character sends 20 tells in a minute (which is precicely 1 every 3 seconds), you auto-ban that account.
    This would work for a short time, then the macro gets adjusted to slow down the tell rate, and Turbine has to adjust, etc. Lots of effort and no guarantee of a permanent solution. Plus, it still limits all legitimate trial account communication (albeit very slightly at first, but more as Turbine has to adjust the length of the tell timer to maintain effectiveness).

    For me, the verdict still falls in favor of the filterable tells for trial accounts and blacklisted URLs for tells.

    Let's recap:

    Filterable tells for trial accounts:
    1) Trial accounts can send tells to anyone without time restriction.
    2) All players (including trial accounts) have a checkbox option to block tells from trial accounts, with the exception of those in their guild or friends list; when the checkbox is checked, an incoming tell from a trial account not on your friends list or guild list never gets to you and you never see any indication that it was sent. You cannot be interrupted by a spammer's tell while the checkbox is checked.
    3) Trial account players that send a tell to someone with the checkbox checked get back A WINDOWED MESSAGE THAT REQUIRES AN OK BUTTON TO BE CLICKED. This message says something like, "The player you have attempted to contact has chosen to block incoming tells from trial accounts that are not on their friends list or in their guild. If you are looking for help in the game, please use the General chat or click the help button to contact a GM. Thank you!"
    4) EFFECT ON SPAMMERS: Spammers will receive a checkbox message after every tell to someone with the checkbox checked, and their tell will not be successful. If they still use a macro, the complexity of the macro will be greatly increased due to the checkbox, plus they will have to spend a lot longer online (increasing their chances of being caught while spamming), and most of their attempts will not get through. The only way to then effectively spam players will be to purchase an account, and now they have to deal with return on investment and having their (sometimes unpaid) representatives handle money, credit cards or game cards. This also makes it easier for Turbine to track repeat spammers.
    5) EFFECT ON PLAYERS: Legitimate trial players will receive a message courteously explaining why their (blind) /tell was not completed, and the message is actually better than being ignored. They will at least understand why they get no response, and they will realize that if they sign up for the full game they will not have this issue. They also are being pointed to two places to get help. Additionally, paying players have the ability to uncheck their checkbox and accept blind tells from anyone if they want to make themselves available to help. It could be that after a while, we can all uncheck them because spammers may have abandoned /tells altogether.

    Blacklisted URLs for tells:
    1) All tells are briefly scanned for indications of website URLs (strings of characters like "/", ".com", ".net", "dot", etc.); this may even be able to be done client-side to save time, if the devs are up to the challenge. Those that pass are sent along immediately. This brief check can be fast enough so that a tell that passes will be sent along with no noticeable delay whatsoever.
    2) Tells that fail the test are subject to a slightly longer process that checks for known gold seller URLs from a maintained database. Tells that match are prevented from going through, and the sender receives a message saying "Your message contains a URL that has been flagged for gold spamming, which is against Turbine's terms of service. It has been deleted." The /teller is then reported to Turbine in the same manner as we currently report spam tells. Those that pass the second test are sent through.
    3) EFFECT ON SPAMMERS: It is very simple. If a spammer cannot deliver their URL to you, there is no reason for them to spam anymore. It is just wasted energy. Their business in DDO dries up, and they go away. They would certainly try to disguise their URL by replacing some characters with text or other methods, but as long as people keep reporting gold spam as we currently do (the 'report gold spammer' feature must stay in play), Turbine will keep adding their new attempts to the blacklist. They could also add new URLs, but this is a lot of effort for a momentary success that will soon be blocked as well.
    4) EFFECT ON PLAYERS: For simple tells with no URL indicators they continue as normal with no noticeable delay. For tells that exhibit indications of URLs, they experience a slight delay as their are checked against the blacklist, but again they go through with a slight delay. Any tell you are sending to your friend with a URL in it is likely not something sent in the heat of battle, so the delay shouldn't affect gameplay.


    So yeah, spammers could still disguise their URL enough to maybe get it through, but before long its going to be too complicated to communicate effectively. I mean, how many players are going to be able to decipher something like "dub-dub-dub-yay ot-day eye-bay eye-may at-play ot-day om-kay"? It's a customer service nightmare. Spammers would be getting spammed themselves with "what the HELL are you gibbering on about??" Plus, if you have the filterable tells for trial accounts also in place, spammers are going to have to have paid accounts to be effective, and are subject to reporting and banning that now costs them money. YES!

    The happy end result for the paid player base is that they NEVER get any spam /tells at all.

    -Silence
    Last edited by TehSilence; 07-08-2008 at 01:10 PM.

  17. #37
    Community Member Tomalon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deriaz View Post
    Y'know, I share the non-love for plat farmers. I really do.

    But a timer on tells? Really? >> I send upwards of, like, 8 tells in 30 seconds sometimes. Sometimes to the same person. . . That would really kinda bite. . .

    Just ignore them. It isn't the greatest solution, but ignoring does help. . . Soon as I see that random letter name, I look back to what I'm doing. Yes, a filter on, say, websites would be great. Maybe say you can't put websites in chat (Allow them to still have it in mail. Which then works because plat farmers are Unconfirmed mail.). If a friend really, really, really wants you to see a site, maybe they could link it to you on MSN Messenger. Or send it in a mail.

    A timer on tells would hurt everyone more than it'd help. . .

    -D
    I forgot to add " on trial account only" so put the cool down timer on tells on trial accounts. we all know thats where the framers send thier tells from anyway.

  18. #38
    Community Member query's Avatar
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    Default I know you also are a fellow Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Trillogy fan Tolero,

    But that's FOUR.

    {Wait, I can be MORE esoteric that that!}

    "There are only THREE rules!"
    "No," says the [fnord] imprisoner, "There are FOUR Rules."

    *Does his Spam Song since Spam was mentioned four times in that topic, then launches into his rendition of Spamalot...thus doing a Hat-trick for popular culture references in one post....or is it FOUR?*


    Okay, that important stuff said. Spams still come. Now they actually have slowed down my character, literally lagging my game if tells in a heavy combat. Yes I have died.

    Therefore, the problem is officially worse. Getting 3 tells a minute no matter HOW much a break in between suggests a BIGGER problem.

    I report-every-single-tell.

    Yep unlike something I cannot publically discuss, I do not witness the plat raids and bans and see MORE not fewer web sites advertised.

    I don't care if staff wad fired, transfered or even BECAME the dark side sellers in question. Thi issue must get better NOT worse!


    That's my say. Comments in a constructive manner welcome. Sorry Tolero. Even if I have humor, this issue is still quite serious.












    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Welcome to the Plane of Spammerwrath!












    Here in the Plane of Spammerwrath, we will discuss all things spammer related. From suggestions, discussion, or just general frustrations, let's bring all the spam talk together so that we aren't spamming the forums with.... spam. You need to remember only 3 things during your visit here in the Plane of Spammerwrath...


    1. No naming names
    If you're going to talk about the spammers, remove any reference to their names.
    2. Do not provide any spam website URLs, site names, phone numbers, email addresses, or messenger information.
    Don't do their advertising for them!
    3. Forum guidelines still apply
    Remember, the Cube is watching! Keep those discussions within the rules
    4. Spam related discussions will be brought to the Plane of Spammerwrath
    Let's keep the spam discussions in the related thread. Spam about spam is...well... spam.
    Other things of interest in the Plane of Spammerwrath
    • Read the recent Letter to the Cube about spam (for more letters from the cube, visit the First and Second edition of the Dear Cubie series)
    • Our In-game support team is still actively banning spammers
    • You can still report spammers using the help panel
    Last edited by query; 07-08-2008 at 01:26 PM.

    Be careful what you wish for, what you say is best; for sometimes what you seek is found, not at the end of the quest.
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  19. #39
    Community Member Tomalon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TehSilence View Post
    This would work for a short time, then the macro gets adjusted to slow down the tell rate, and Turbine has to adjust, etc. Lots of effort and no guarantee of a permanent solution. Plus, it still limits all legitimate trial account communication (albeit very slightly at first, but more as Turbine has to adjust the length of the tell timer to maintain effectiveness).

    For me, the verdict still falls in favor of the filterable tells for trial accounts and blacklisted URLs for tells.

    Let's recap:

    Filterable tells for trial accounts:
    1) Trial accounts can send tells to anyone without time restriction.
    2) All players (including trial accounts) have a checkbox option to block tells from trial accounts, with the exception of those in their guild or friends list; when the checkbox is checked, an incoming tell from a trial account not on your friends list or guild list never gets to you and you never see any indication that it was sent. You cannot be interrupted by a spammer's tell while the checkbox is checked.
    3) Trial account players that send a tell to someone with the checkbox checked get back A WINDOWED MESSAGE THAT REQUIRES AN OK BUTTON TO BE CLICKED. This message says something like, "The player you have attempted to contact has chosen to block incoming tells from trial accounts that are not on their friends list or in their guild. If you are looking for help in the game, please use the General chat or click the help button to contact a GM. Thank you!"
    4) EFFECT ON SPAMMERS: Spammers will receive a checkbox message after every tell to someone with the checkbox checked, and their tell will not be successful. If they still use a macro, the complexity of the macro will be greatly increased due to the checkbox, plus they will have to spend a lot longer online (increasing their chances of being caught while spamming), and most of their attempts will not get through. The only way to then effectively spam players will be to purchase an account, and now they have to deal with return on investment and having their (sometimes unpaid) representatives handle money, credit cards or game cards. This also makes it easier for Turbine to track repeat spammers.
    5) EFFECT ON PLAYERS: Legitimate trial players will receive a message courteously explaining why their (blind) /tell was not completed, and the message is actually better than being ignored. They will at least understand why they get no response, and they will realize that if they sign up for the full game they will not have this issue. They also are being pointed to two places to get help. Additionally, paying players have the ability to uncheck their checkbox and accept blind tells from anyone if they want to make themselves available to help. It could be that after a while, we can all uncheck them because spammers may have abandoned /tells altogether.

    Blacklisted URLs for tells:
    1) All tells are briefly scanned for indications of website URLs (strings of characters like "/", ".com", ".net", "dot", etc.); this may even be able to be done client-side to save time, if the devs are up to the challenge. Those that pass are sent along immediately. This brief check can be fast enough so that a tell that passes will be sent along with no noticeable delay whatsoever.
    2) Tells that fail the test are subject to a slightly longer process that checks for known gold seller URLs from a maintained database. Tells that match are prevented from going through, and the sender receives a message saying "Your message contains a URL that has been flagged for gold spamming, which is against Turbine's terms of service. It has been deleted." The /teller is then reported to Turbine in the same manner as we currently report spam tells. Those that pass the second test are sent through.
    3) EFFECT ON SPAMMERS: It is very simple: If a spammer cannot deliver their URL to you, there is no reason for them to spam anymore. It is just wasted energy. Their business in DDO dries up, and they go away. They would certainly try to disguise their URL by replacing some characters with text or other methods, but as long as people keep reporting gold spam as we currently do (the 'report gold spammer' feature must stay in play), Turbine will keep adding their new attempts to the blacklist.
    4) EFFECT ON PLAYERS: For simple tells with no URL indicators they continue as normal with no noticeable delay. For tells that exhibit indications of URLs, they experience a slight delay as their are checked against the blacklist, but again they go through with a slight delay. Any tell you are sending to your friend with a URL in it is likely not something sent in the heat of battle, so the delay shouldn't affect gameplay.


    So yeah, spammers could still disguise their URL enough to maybe get it through, but before long its going to be too complicated to communicate effectively. I mean, how many players are going to be able to decipher something like "dub-dub-dub-yay ot-day eye-bay eye-may at-play ot-day om-kay"? It's a customer service nightmare. Spammers would be getting spammed themselves with "what the HELL are you gibbering on about??" Plus, if you have the filterable tells for trial accounts also in place, spammers are going to have to have paid accounts to be effective, and are subject to reporting and banning that now costs them money. YES!

    The happy end result for the paid player base is that they NEVER get any spam e-mails at all.

    -Silence
    Lets face it guys turbine is CHEAP and Silence your idea, however nice it is, it would take way to much coding for turbine to invest in. Heck we cant even get buggs fixed from 2yrs ago but that is a different thread. No what we/turbine needs is something simple and easy to code so it wont cost them the bottom line.

    The 30 sec cool down on tells is code they alrdy have written, on the forums, so all they have to do is tweek it to fit in game. Now i do no coding what so ever so i couldn't tell you if this easier or not then say coming up with a system of send tell, get tell responce, if box is checked window pops up for redirect thingy you winded about.

    So to recap

    30 sec cool down timer on tells sent from a trial account.
    Simple-yes.
    Easy to code in to game-have no clue, ill let you guys argue over that
    Does it solve the platfarmers tells problem- i believe so: how effective can a platfarmer be if he can only send 2 tells per minute. AND if the 1st tell gets reported as spam and turbine really looks in to it they could shut him down before he could get the 3rd tell off.
    Affect of noob trying to get help- minimal, 30 sec is not that long, most that time will get used up in the responce anyway.

    Now i wonder if the dev actually read any of these.

  20. #40
    Community Member TehSilence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomalon View Post
    Now i do no coding what so ever so i couldn't tell you if this easier or not then say coming up with a system of send tell, get tell responce, if box is checked window pops up for redirect thingy you winded about.
    It is way easier to code the 30-second tell timer for trial accounts than to implement what I posted. And if that's all the effort they can give, it's likely preferrable to doing nothing. If the message comes back to trial account holders "Trial accounts are limited to one tell every 30-second period", then I would be on board with that.

    It does impact people doing trial accounts by hampering communication between them and the people who may have recruited them. And that may impact the ultimate subscription rate of people who sign up for trial accounts.

    I guess my thoughts are that Turbine could use the same code for all of their MMO properties, including the blacklisted URL database. If you spread the cost for the mods around to multiple games, it wouldn't be that much money per game to offset whatever benefit they expect from preventing platinum seller spam.

    Hey... they did something with the mail that was successful, and I'm assuming it was some kind of URL filter technology like I've been championing. So they may have some of this already coded!

    -Silence

    P.S. Disclaimer: While I've added details to the "filterable tells for trial accounts" and "blacklisted URLs for tells", neither of them were my original ideas. I got them from other people in the original thread.

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