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  1. #81
    Community Member samagee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnrilfun View Post
    I was nervous when I first saw this thinking that someone posted nekkid pics of a plat farmer. Thankfully it was just text.
    Hey! Some of us came in this post hopeing for nude pics. Oriental women make me feel funny. OK, so all women make me feel like I want to feel. What's your point?

  2. #82
    Community Member ChainsawXIV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
    I'm no expert on the economics of China, and I assume you aren't, either. Don't try to make your beliefs about how Western economies work (assuming for the moment that you're even correct about how they work) fit into China.
    Differences in economy don't change the basic principles of the employee employer relationship. There is a level of choice implicit in the concept of employment, as opposed to servitude, that is universal. If the worker truly feels that his job is too awful to endure, he can at least opt down. Unless you're trying to say that plat farming is run on a system of indentured servitude or something, this concept still applies.

    While there are differences between the job markets in the US and China, it's my understanding that Chinese workers are still employees, with the same basic options as employees anywhere else. As I understand it, the government basically requires that everyone is working, and weather that's as a plat farmer or a public restroom attendant is a matter of qualifications, opportunity, and most of all choice.
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  3. #83
    Community Member query's Avatar
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    Default Yeah, well, let's stop the economics for basic law

    Turbine owns this game and its assets and components. Making a true profit using the game is a violation of using DDO's image for your third party gains. This is a breach in intellectual property.


    Then actual problem is finding the true orignal financers to this. Cells are done for a reason.



    SO it's wrong period. Will it be enforced to the point it will stop disrupting average gamer gameplay? Most likely not.

    So squelch the email and don't expect to see any change for months, as legal suggestions by companies are swift and meaningless unless enforced in court.
    Last edited by query; 07-10-2008 at 05:35 PM.

    Be careful what you wish for, what you say is best; for sometimes what you seek is found, not at the end of the quest.
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  4. #84
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    Some people follow plat farmers around, pretend to befriend them, harass them, so on and so forth.

    Me? I ask for some free mana pots.

    Screw everyone else, I'm looking out for NUMBER ONE!

  5. #85
    Community Member Dracolich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlassCannon View Post
    Especially when trying to RP in a dungeon with some fellow gamers in-character.
    Set up a channel for party only chat while in a dungeon. after all how are you recieving these magical tells from people when your RPing? Unless a messenger pigeon has followed you in.

    Now that I am done playing devils advocate I too get annoyed by the plat messeges. Is there anything you can do to stop them? no. Whenever you have a product that has a demand wether it be real or immaginary people will pay real money for it if they want instant gratification.

    As for the OP what point were you trying to make? We already know there are plat farmers.

    If Turbine wanted to stop plat buyers they could set up a fake company and set up sting operations. After all they can create as much plat as they want for a buy and just nab people like that. It is no different then cops busting Jons instead of the hookers they patronize.

    As for the farmers themselves, I think Turbine hired most of them for their level 1 tech support.

  6. #86
    Community Member Dracolich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacknCoke View Post
    vigilante justice. Its like the old west or some uncivilised young nation.

    So you get mad you get a tell you can simply NOT READ!!! so you go and try and starve him and his family. GOT to love Americans!! God do they love screwing over others so they can be entertained!


    *thinks to self* "i need a distraction"
    oh ya...
    Britney Spears was seen yesterday in new red shoes!

    *runs off while America blogs about how cool the shoes are*
    Dude get off your high horse. So what if your going to Darfur as your sig says. There are alot of people who do good things that dont have to self promote to feel good about themselves...grow up.

  7. #87
    Community Member gfunk's Avatar
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    I get usually 2 to 3 spams from plat farmers in an evenings play of around 4 hours, so its not a huge issue... just a handful of annoying "ding" sounds. If it makes it so that some poor guy in China or India can afford to feed himself/his family then so be it. The only annoyance i find are the people who buy plat/items to make uber builds... and then try and pass it off as the fruits of their own gaming. Face it, in order to support this plat farming business, a substantial number of people must be using it, yet i have only met 1 person who ever admited to it.

    It's sort of like not rigorously policing performance enhancing drugs in sports; it totally unbalances the playing field. Instead of pumping myself up with juice to cut half a second off my sprint time, i would have to buy some w/p rapiers so that someone will let me in their hound run. (I only use this as an example because of the number of "w/p only" lfm's I have seen for this raid).

    so in summary: not so annoyed with plat farmers, just annoyed with plat buyers.
    <Sarlona>Leafy 12th life TR, Ingvild 25 Fighter, Backk 25 Rogue, Hipyletus 25 Sorcerer, Reinheits 25 Cleric, Cratonic 18 Fighter/2 Monk, Archean 20 barbarian, Steamfunk 24 Arti <Quantum Entropy>
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfunk View Post
    so in summary: not so annoyed with plat farmers, just annoyed with plat buyers.
    I'm not annoyed with either.

    Every so often, people whine about the negative effects of plat buyers on the economy but frankly those negative effects are extremely overstated. The increased money supply no doubt causes inflation, but that inflation affects the sale of items as much as the purchase. It only devalues individual gold in quests which doesn't really scale with said inflation (this, I think, is not that big a deal). I think people use this argument to rationalize their dislike of someone gaining a perceived edge on them by spending real-world money.

    There's about a 100 more things that could be easily done to curb platinum farming. The reason no one chooses to do anything, however, is it really just is not worth it. The game is fine. It's economic state is fine. Platinum farmers really aren't that annoying to most people.

  9. #89
    Community Member LOUDRampart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD2134 View Post
    Of course if the devs and gm really want to end plat farmers in the game they do more then just ban the trail account after their reported. They just need to take the method police use in busting drug dealers. Simple they need to start a small sting op. Where they go to these site and buy maybe 5 or 6 dollars of gold, not a whole lot but a minium buy. Wont be enough to break their bank but enough to find out the bank mules the plat farmers are useing.

    Goes like this
    Turbine order plats on toon a
    Plat farmers call turbine and set the met point to delevier the goods,
    Plat farmers transfer items from bank mule a to turbine toon a
    turbine then pulls up the record on bank mule A and records which toon are sending him money. Probally haggle toon A
    Turbine then watchs haggle toon A and see that Farmer Toon A,B,C,D are sending him gear to sell.
    then turbine bans not only bank mule A but all those accounts that are sending money to bank mule A
    So for 5 or 6 dollars and some time and effort. turbine can hit the plat farmers hard and in their supply chain.
    End result the plat sites lose a account with a haggle toon, and a few level 16 toon use to farm the loot to sell. More then likey i bet turbine could get atleast four or six plat farmer account this way.

    They could even go so far as to watch what other account the farm toon group with, and their isp. thus blocking the isp the farmers are using in china. india or where ever
    Naw, set up the sting against the players who are buying the plat. Nail them with a sting, cancel their accounts and then publish who they are. Go after the "johns" and the platpharmers will go out of business.

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing Minds View Post
    Actually my take on this is that apparently Turbine doesn't block China as much as some people claim that they do. Now as we don't know the region this farmer is from, we can't say for fact.
    this particular farmer is from Dalian prefecture
    If you want to know why...

  11. #91
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOUDRampart View Post
    Naw, set up the sting against the players who are buying the plat. Nail them with a sting, cancel their accounts and then publish who they are. Go after the "johns" and the platpharmers will go out of business.
    So Turbine should cancel accounts from paying customers and receive less money? Doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Yes, the concept of paying for "plat" and "items" is ludicrous to me. But so what? I hear a "ping", I look over to see if I received a Tell from someone I know or another player asking me to join a quest, notice it's a plat farmer, and look away. Occasionally I may grumble and go "darn platfarmer" but then I continue my game and think nothing about it again. If this was a heavy PVP game I could certainly see the harm and unfairness of it. But otherwise, come on who cares if "John" over there bought his WoP rapier with imaginary plat at the AH or real Currency from a platfarmer. How does that affect you? Because he unfairly outkilled you?
    I've played for about a year and a half now. In that time I've found, traded, and been outright given some great gear and I'm not even into the raiding aspect much at all. That's why it's ludicrous to me. If you play you will eventually get great gear. But if someone wants to take the easy way, meh, doesn't affect me and I don't care.
    Now, if it's a REAL detriment to Turbine's business model then I can see them taking serious action. But it's really tough to stop the plat farmers and the equivalent to shooting themselves in the foot to Ban their paying customers.
    Anyway, that's the way I see it.

  12. #92
    Community Member knghtstalkr's Avatar
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    Default oooo I think I'll try on this tinfoil hat...

    So... if the plat sellers business co-ops were bribing Turbine not to eliminate them/cut them out of the picture entirely, how would we (the players) ever know?
    knghtstalkr
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  13. #93
    Community Member Quanefel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChainsawXIV View Post
    Let me play the devil's advocate here for a moment, because this kind of comment offends my sense of reason. Regardless of what you think about the morality of enhancing your experience in a game by investing real world resources, the people who provide that service are not stealing from the game's creator. That's like saying auto parts stores or mechanics are stealing from car manufacturers by providing a related service, the market for which springs from the manufacturer's product.

    If you want to take issue with the impact on the economy, or the unfair advantage that people can gain, then be my guest. If you want to address the idea that spending real money for in game resources actually leads to less fun, go for it. Claiming that the farmers didn't work for, or are simply not entitled to the fruits of their labour because their market is based on another company's product however is unrealistic at best. Ultimately, the problem with gold selling is like the problem with porn - a moral and social issue, not a question of ownership.

    [Edit] Edited for brevity.
    Correct me if I am wrong but in order to sell auto parts such as you described, don't you have to have permission from the owner of the rights to that product? Saying it is not a question of ownership is not very true. Turbine owns any and all rights to everything in the game. Plat farming companies do not. The plat farming companies never asked permission to sell or advertise within DDO. If you are ok with someone else making money from another person's hard work without permission, that is you. Personally I believe if any of us were to invent something, create, market that idea or item it is ours to decide who can profit off it.
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  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChainsawXIV View Post
    Differences in economy don't change the basic principles of the employee employer relationship. There is a level of choice implicit in the concept of employment.
    That demonstrates a level of naievte that is, in a word, astounding.

  15. #95
    Community Member Lorien_the_First_One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
    You know for a fact plat farmers make 5-10 times what they can make in a factory job?
    Ya that's a stretch. Everything I've read suggests its the same or just slightly better than working in a factory or on a farm except they get free accomodation and they get to play a game all day. Mostly its 18-25 yr old males who would rather get paid to play a game than work hard, go figure.

  16. #96
    Community Member Falco_Easts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD2134 View Post
    Of course if the devs and gm really want to end plat farmers in the game they do more then just ban the trail account after their reported. They just need to take the method police use in busting drug dealers. Simple they need to start a small sting op. Where they go to these site and buy maybe 5 or 6 dollars of gold, not a whole lot but a minium buy. Wont be enough to break their bank but enough to find out the bank mules the plat farmers are useing.

    Goes like this
    Turbine order plats on toon a
    Plat farmers call turbine and set the met point to delevier the goods,
    Plat farmers transfer items from bank mule a to turbine toon a
    turbine then pulls up the record on bank mule A and records which toon are sending him money. Probally haggle toon A
    Turbine then watchs haggle toon A and see that Farmer Toon A,B,C,D are sending him gear to sell.
    then turbine bans not only bank mule A but all those accounts that are sending money to bank mule A
    So for 5 or 6 dollars and some time and effort. turbine can hit the plat farmers hard and in their supply chain.
    End result the plat sites lose a account with a haggle toon, and a few level 16 toon use to farm the loot to sell. More then likey i bet turbine could get atleast four or six plat farmer account this way.

    They could even go so far as to watch what other account the farm toon group with, and their isp. thus blocking the isp the farmers are using in china. india or where ever
    Because apart from the one who trades the plat to Turbine there is no proof that the others were involved.
    Can you prove that they sent it to the bank toon for them to sell or were they just lending a friend some pp because he said he needed it.
    You can't prove any of the others were involved at all. Not one single drop of proof unless they were stupid enough to talk about ti in chat records.
    I agree it's pretty much certain they are involved but we can;t prove it now can we.

    To use a real life example, the police try to do a similar sting and know a drug dealer. Can they arrest everyone who visits him? Sure most might be buying but some might just be calling in to say hi. They pull his bank account and see large sums of money going into his bank account so they arrest the person making the deposits. Turns out it is a friend paying him back a loan from years ago, or his father helping him out not knowing what his son is really up to.
    Without proof, Turbine can do little against the actaul farmers. What they can do is block the tells so no one knows about their services.
    A friend will bail you out of jail.
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  17. #97
    Community Member Quanefel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vardak View Post
    Apparently they sell enough plat to make it worth the effort. What's Turbine to do though? I've been noticing a nice influx of new legitimate players so gimping trial accounts might not be such a good idea... I've seen a lot of passionate arguments were the root of the issue is plat selling. It's not a simple issue.
    I know its not a simple issue, its very complex and can get heated from time to time. I am with you on not gimping new trial account users. But the bottom line is that plat farming companies are abusing the trial accounts. Without trial accounts, plat farmering companies would have no real reasonable way to spam us players. A plat farming company is not about to spam with a payed account, those accounts WILL get banned and will cost them a great deal of money simply to spam us with.

    So the problem and solution is in trial accounts, somehow. There are many good ideas about stopping/hindering all the massive plat spam. But unless its centered on the trial accounts, nothing else will work really. Even if we try to solve it with payed accounts by blocking incoming tells, limting who sends us tells, etc it does not matter since the plat farming companies will find a way around it. The solution is in the trial accounts themselves, not payed accounts.

    Another important idea that most people do not care to talk about is the plat farming accounts. If Turbine were to find a way to block to spams, great. Yet in my mind that is only part of the solution. If Turbine wants to hit the farming companies desire to even be in the game, hit their farming accounts and hit them hard. If Turbine were to start costing the plat farming companies money, DDO might not look so desirable to them as much. Maybe if they give the plat farming companies a 1-2 punch by attacking the spam and farming problem at the same time, it "might" put a dent into their activities. And Turbine, turning the other way when it comes to the farmer accounts might bring in more subscrption money but in the end it only hurts you because they will spam your player base with little to no direct actions being taken against them. Both the spammers, farmers and sellers all work for the same respective companies. Going after ONLY the spammers is not solving anything. Attack every aspect of the plat farming companies if you really want to stop the spam. Remind them who's game this is.

    Anyone rememeber or pay attention to what happened when Turbine "fixed" the plat spam mails? No more spam mails, but it increased the amount of plat spam tells us players got. So Turbine, look at that example if you decide the fix the plat spam. Tackle it from all angles and try to keep it from simply being pushed somewhere else. Most importantly, look at some of the ideas from your players on how to solve this problem. Simply ignoring it like so many others have suggested in 2+ years has not stopped, hindered or removing the spam from the game. It will not go away until it is really dealt with.
    Proud Leader of the Shadowhand.

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  18. #98

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    i think alot of you have the misconception that china plat farmers come from poor families. yes, china do have many poor families and they are general situated in the more rural parts of the countries. in disparity between the city and the rural folks is very large. some city living citizens (esp if they have close ties with officials) can even afford opulent lifestyles (think sprawling mansions, imported grand chandeliers, gold taps, knobs, everything). the infrastructure of the small towns are unable to support the gaming thus most of these happens in the larger towns or the cities.

    most of the plat farmers then to be teens (12-25, generally past 18). they are there not because they are poor. they are there because they want to have fun and get paid at the same time (there aree of coz exploiters that have sweatshops doing the farming). are they suffering? not for most of them. its a win-win situation for the farming companies and the farmers, the companies get revenue, the farmer get paid game time.

    how does this affect us? its easy for some to say ignore the pms, prolly you use voice often. i run alot of stuff with text chat, shroud, hound, vod even. a pm can cause me to lose focus or to miss out a question or instruction. now factor in 10 of them. information overload. sure we can use voice, but not everyone use voice and we have to respect that

    banning plat farmers harms the casual players is perhaps the biggest load of bovine fecal material i ever heard. in fact, its the opposite. garnering loot is part of the learning process. you use the loot you get from the chests or AH. you learn to use them for different situation. giving a w/p rapier to a ranger only for him not to know how to use it and have him use it on skeletons is a waste. the time spent in gathering loot is also a time used for learning the different quests and of coz different tactics used. imagine a casual gamer spending 1000USD to buy an account loaded with gear, joins a group with the swagger, only for him to fail spectacularly. this is not helping the game, people isolate him, he gets disillusioned, cancels account. on the flipside, if item purchase is accepted, the power gamers lose faith with the game (since nothing can be achieved when you can just buy them all), cancels accounts, no more groups, again casual gamers will suffer the effects.

    the repercussions of buying plat cannot be easily felt, it ripples throughout the community, the game, only for it to turn into a tsunami when it is not controlled. at this point, there is still some controls
    If you want to know why...

  19. #99
    Community Member Falco_Easts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quanefel View Post
    I know its not a simple issue, its very complex and can get heated from time to time. I am with you on not gimping new trial account users. But the bottom line is that plat farming companies are abusing the trial accounts. Without trial accounts, plat farmering companies would have no real reasonable way to spam us players. A plat farming company is not about to spam with a payed account, those accounts WILL get banned and will cost them a great deal of money simply to spam us with.

    So the problem and solution is in trial accounts, somehow. There are many good ideas about stopping/hindering all the massive plat spam. But unless its centered on the trial accounts, nothing else will work really. Even if we try to solve it with payed accounts by blocking incoming tells, limting who sends us tells, etc it does not matter since the plat farming companies will find a way around it. The solution is in the trial accounts themselves, not payed accounts.

    Another important idea that most people do not care to talk about is the plat farming accounts. If Turbine were to find a way to block to spams, great. Yet in my mind that is only part of the solution. If Turbine wants to hit the farming companies desire to even be in the game, hit their farming accounts and hit them hard. If Turbine were to start costing the plat farming companies money, DDO might not look so desirable to them as much. Maybe if they give the plat farming companies a 1-2 punch by attacking the spam and farming problem at the same time, it "might" put a dent into their activities. And Turbine, turning the other way when it comes to the farmer accounts might bring in more subscrption money but in the end it only hurts you because they will spam your player base with little to no direct actions being taken against them. Both the spammers, farmers and sellers all work for the same respective companies. Going after ONLY the spammers is not solving anything. Attack every aspect of the plat farming companies if you really want to stop the spam. Remind them who's game this is.

    Anyone rememeber or pay attention to what happened when Turbine "fixed" the plat spam mails? No more spam mails, but it increased the amount of plat spam tells us players got. So Turbine, look at that example if you decide the fix the plat spam. Tackle it from all angles and try to keep it from simply being pushed somewhere else. Most importantly, look at some of the ideas from your players on how to solve this problem. Simply ignoring it like so many others have suggested in 2+ years has not stopped, hindered or removing the spam from the game. It will not go away until it is really dealt with.
    Hey Q, me and you might not always see eye to eye on how to handle the farmers but we do agree that they need to be stamped out.
    Personally I don't think a lot can be done to stop the farming accounts. I mean, how do you prove they are plat farmers and not loot wh*res like the rest of us.
    Personally I think they need to stop the tells. Who cares if they are farming plat if they can't tell anyone and get business out of it. I still think the best way is to add a filter to the chat channels that is maintained by the GM's. Every time a tell is reported, the website mentioned it is added to the filter. Won't be long before all their websites and variations of can no longer be mentioned in DDO.
    A friend will bail you out of jail.
    A mate will be sitting in there beside you saying "Damn that was awsome!!!"

    Unguilded of Orien

  20. #100
    Community Member ShadowHand2's Avatar
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    It is amazing how people in this game assume they know for sure Plat farmers/Sellers/spammers are all poor and live in dirt covered huts or the whatever else makes it seem they are down-trodden. I think people make them appear in need of those illegal jobs for their own peace of mind. I believe deep down people know what they do is wrong and breaks DDO rules for evening playing, but if they say out-loud " they do it for survive", makes them feel warm inside. It is to hard for players to think just maybe they do it because like most kids ( they average around 12-21ish) they do it for the easy making of money for less work AND they get to live and play to their hearts content. Maybe some do work sweat shops as assumed by a few, but with those I ask if that is the case then are you not in fact condoning slave labor by saying it does not bother you? That is of course if they are in fact ed indentured servants, which of course they are not. They merely work there rather then work on the family farm or the like.

    As far as people saying what they do is ok or does not bother you. They bother me, they bother other people, that in itself clearly shows a valid reason for complaining as is anyones right to complain. Saying they do not bother you does not mean the rest of us should feel the same way and drop it. Oh, before I forget, what Vigilant actions did the OP or others who deal/mess with platters? I think when people say stuff like it is a watch hunt, rent-a-cops and such you are trying to make it far more dramatic then those who posted what they did or say against platters. You make it seem we who do not like them that we are out for blood. Posting photos or chats or the like is just what they are....a posting. Vigilantes as far as I know do not seek justice more so revenge. You are in fact redefining the word to make and impart fear and hate. Neither of which is the case. Same goes for witch hunt term tossed around. Might not want to be using that term also as if I remember right, people actually died from all of that. People dying for beliefs then to have players toss the term around like it makes a point....are far off base.

    Lets be honest with ourselves, they do what they do with China for the only fact they can get away with abuse laws and such from DDO/Turbine. If they was in the US they would be going to court. Because they break the law from K miles away is still breaking the law. I think people trying to excuses them to easy for that fact, but really, a wrong is still a wrong no matter how far away you hide yourself. When a player say in Australia( an example) gets banned for whatever reason by breaking rules, does that not count as breaking the rules? China gets away with because they hide behind distance and know they cannot be touched....but that still does not make it right.

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