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  1. #181
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    You know how you kill the plat sellers? I'll tell you.

    You cannot destroy them by going after the farmers. Ban em, they just come back. They're like roaches. You need to go after what they feed on.

    You need to go after the Johns. Publically. Buying plat is against the TOS. Make a statement that the TOS WILL BE ENFORCED. Ban accounts of those that buy plat. Make it public. Publish names of characters. Make sure that everyone understands that if you buy plat, you will be shown the door and invited never to come back.

    Problem solved. Plat farmers have nothing to feed on, and they go away.

    Unfortunately, no company seems to be willing to do it. They'd rather have their in-game economy borked all to hell and back. I don't understand that. Instead we have all these mostly ineffectual systems to try to control the roaches (although the mail system works, I'll give them that, it was a brilliant move).
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  2. #182
    Community Member Allistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beherit Baphomar View Post
    Horrible.

    Tell me, how does the leader of a no-twink permadeath guild come up with an idea to make plat buying 'legal'?

    Just seems...wrong....to me.
    Because all it does is benefit him.
    His Guild is no-twink so he nor his guildmates can buy from the plat sellers,
    and now they don't have to deal with the annoyances the plat sellers give
    every time you log in.
    From his perception, it's Brillant.
    But..... Ah, NO
    Surrender is NEVER an option.
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  3. #183
    Hall of Famer Borrigain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moragon View Post
    I don't think it would be necessary to charge for a trial account as long as a valid card is required to open it. Just change the EULA to indicate that if the account is used to generate spam, it will be charged for one month as well as canceled.

    ......
    I like this idea. Let Turbine make money off the plat spammers that they can then use to put back into the game.

    But instead of 1 month, hell....make it like $1000 bucks.

    Since I'm pretty sure they aren't reading the EULA, insert a clause in there that "spamming will not be tolerated, anyone reported for multiple spams (say 5 or so from that credit card, not just account number or character) will be fined $1000 and have their accounts suspended immediately."

    Now this would work for trials too, as you still need to upfront a credit card account to play.

    If a spammer gets reported by a player, the program checks the reported turbine account against the credit card account # and makes a tick. After 5 or so accredited to that card, account is cancelled and card is billed. This is to make sure that even if they are using same card for multiple accounts, they still get hammered, and all accounts associated with that card cancelled.

    To resolute disputes (in case of an error), said individual would have to contance turbine via account management and a mediator would check logs to see if player was being griefed (resulting in account reinstatement and money refunded and the griefer then disciplined) or was actually a spammer.

    I'm pretty sure the spammers can't afford to keep losing $1000 a whack to offset possible income just for this game. Eventually, they'll figure out this game is not worth the effort and cease activities here.

    Kind of harsh, but hell, it's time to stop treating criminals as the victims and make the punishment so harsh, no one wants to commit the "crime".



    Just an idea,
    Borr.
    Last edited by Borrigain; 07-25-2008 at 02:27 PM.
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  4. #184
    Tasty Ham Smuggler Kromize's Avatar
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    hmm

    That trial account things, where they get charged if they generate spam... good idea, but bad idea too. Turbine could possibly be sued for it... Dunno the legal **** tho... Anything is possible...
    Last edited by Kromize; 07-28-2008 at 10:48 AM.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Make a statement that the TOS WILL BE ENFORCED. Ban accounts of those that buy plat. Make it public. Publish names of characters. Make sure that everyone understands that if you buy plat, you will be shown the door and invited never to come back.

    Problem solved. Plat farmers have nothing to feed on, and they go away.
    How do you determine who has purchased plat? Let's say, hypothetically, you and I exchange e-mails and I agree to pay you $100 for 1.7 zillion plat. If you don't mail it to me, how can anyone tell I've just got 1.7 zillion plat? Does Turbine have to monitor all characters' money, and a flag goes up if an "account" goes from 10,000 plat to 1.7 zillion and 10,000 plat?

  6. #186
    Community Member Dawnblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
    How do you determine who has purchased plat? Let's say, hypothetically, you and I exchange e-mails and I agree to pay you $100 for 1.7 zillion plat. If you don't mail it to me, how can anyone tell I've just got 1.7 zillion plat? Does Turbine have to monitor all characters' money, and a flag goes up if an "account" goes from 10,000 plat to 1.7 zillion and 10,000 plat?

    Well yeah. It would just be a matter or setting up some sort of tracker that would flag accounts doing one side trades or at least one side trades over a certain amount. Then further investigation would be necessary.

    However I've been told that they often use other methods to get the money to players which would be harder to track. Of course I'm not about to tell what it is here since I don't want to be disciplined

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnblade View Post
    Well yeah. It would just be a matter or setting up some sort of tracker that would flag accounts doing one side trades or at least one side trades over a certain amount. Then further investigation would be necessary.

    However I've been told that they often use other methods to get the money to players which would be harder to track. Of course I'm not about to tell what it is here since I don't want to be disciplined
    You said "disciplined."

    I have no personal or specific knowledge of purchased plat transfer, so this is all conjecture on my part. The ways that spring to my mind are: 1. direct character-to-character transfer (probably the least efficient from the plat seller's perspective); 2. the Orien mail system; and 3. the plat buyer lists a specific low-level piece of junque on the AH for the agreed-upon amount and the plat seller buys that item. If there are other ways that you have specific knowledge of, yes, you are probably wise not to mention them here.

    A "fraud alert" type system would work, but would likely be more trouble than it's worth. Each character's spending habits would have to be tracked and "remembered."

  8. #188
    Community Member Vagabond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borrigain View Post
    I like this idea. Let Turbine make money off the plat spammers that they can then use to put back into the game.

    But instead of 1 month, hell....make it like $1000 bucks.

    Since I'm pretty sure they aren't reading the EULA, insert a clause in there that "spamming will not be tolerated, anyone reported for multiple spams (say 5 or so from that credit card, not just account number or character) will be fined $1000 and have their accounts suspended immediately."

    Now this would work for trials too, as you still need to upfront a credit card account to play.

    If a spammer gets reported by a player, the program checks the reported turbine account against the credit card account # and makes a tick. After 5 or so accredited to that card, account is cancelled and card is billed. This is to make sure that even if they are using same card for multiple accounts, they still get hammered, and all accounts associated with that card cancelled.

    To resolute disputes (in case of an error), said individual would have to contance turbine via account management and a mediator would check logs to see if player was being griefed (resulting in account reinstatement and money refunded and the griefer then disciplined) or was actually a spammer.

    I'm pretty sure the spammers can't afford to keep losing $1000 a whack to offset possible income just for this game. Eventually, they'll figure out this game is not worth the effort and cease activities here.

    Kind of harsh, but hell, it's time to stop treating criminals as the victims and make the punishment so harsh, no one wants to commit the "crime".



    Just an idea,
    Borr.
    What are, you 13 years old? That would be massively illegal, easy to grief, and it doesn't matter if it gets 'reviewed and overturned', having random $1000 deductions from your bank account or charged to your credit card would horribly screw a lot of people.

    This is even worse than the suggestion on the front page to require credit info to set up a trial (that does not attract new players.)


    The idea of getting plat for reporting spammers was funny. Then instead of buying plat directly from the farmers, you'd pay to have them send you tells to report.
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  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    What are, you 13 years old? That would be massively illegal, easy to grief, and it doesn't matter if it gets 'reviewed and overturned', having random $1000 deductions from your bank account or charged to your credit card would horribly screw a lot of people.

    This is even worse than the suggestion on the front page to require credit info to set up a trial (that does not attract new players.)


    The idea of getting plat for reporting spammers was funny. Then instead of buying plat directly from the farmers, you'd pay to have them send you tells to report.
    I think $1000 was just a random number he came up with.

    But the farmers are coming back cause there making money out of it, if theres no profit theyll stop. If instead of $1000 they were charged the 1 month fee previously suggested, I doubt theyd be making $15 a tell.
    Last edited by Quartus; 08-01-2008 at 02:08 PM.

  10. #190
    Community Member Osco's Avatar
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    New player, but wanted to toss this suggestion out there. How about when you click "report gold spammer" in the chat, it do a global ignore so that they can't just sit there deleting characters and remaking them every ten minutes?

  11. #191
    Community Member Alastor's Avatar
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    The fact that this thread exists while the flow of unsolicited in-game spam surges on unhindered is bewildering to me. Shame, Turbine.
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  12. #192
    Community Member Falco_Easts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
    How do you determine who has purchased plat? Let's say, hypothetically, you and I exchange e-mails and I agree to pay you $100 for 1.7 zillion plat. If you don't mail it to me, how can anyone tell I've just got 1.7 zillion plat? Does Turbine have to monitor all characters' money, and a flag goes up if an "account" goes from 10,000 plat to 1.7 zillion and 10,000 plat?
    The harder problem is how do you prove someone bought plat? Without financial records you can't. That 1.7 zillion pp could have been a gift and neither you, I or Turbine can prove otherwise without access to the CC details. Unless the stupidly spoke about it in chat in which case Turbine could access the chat logs.
    It is nigh impossible for Turbine to prove someone bought plat but very easy for them to prove someone was spamming chat channels. That is who they need to target. Honestly, who cares if the farmers are out there with massive stockpiles of stuff. If they can't tell anyone about it they get no business.
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  13. #193
    Community Member deathtouch's Avatar
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    Cant you set up a sting operation, but 1000k plat from them, find out which toons and accounts are associated with the plat farmer via a money trail, then BAM cancel them all...


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  14. #194
    Community Member Quanefel's Avatar
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    Is there ANY chance a Dev could respond to this thread or give us some indication that the plat spam problem is being looked into? It would go a long way into giving the players some comfort that we are not simply being ignored about this issue. Thank you.
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  15. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    You know how you kill the plat sellers? I'll tell you.

    You cannot destroy them by going after the farmers. Ban em, they just come back. They're like roaches. You need to go after what they feed on.

    You need to go after the Johns. Publically. Buying plat is against the TOS. Make a statement that the TOS WILL BE ENFORCED. Ban accounts of those that buy plat. Make it public. Publish names of characters. Make sure that everyone understands that if you buy plat, you will be shown the door and invited never to come back.

    Problem solved. Plat farmers have nothing to feed on, and they go away.

    Unfortunately, no company seems to be willing to do it. They'd rather have their in-game economy borked all to hell and back. I don't understand that. Instead we have all these mostly ineffectual systems to try to control the roaches (although the mail system works, I'll give them that, it was a brilliant move).
    I have made this suggestion before and it was ignored. If the Devs want the spammers to go away they can do ! of 2 things.

    1: Remove use of tells and mail from trial accounts. If you are just trying the game out you don't need either of them.
    2: They could do what Guild Wars does. If you are caught buying from these spammers they suspend your account for 2 weeks. And take away what ever you bought from them. I was on there for 4 hours on day and didn't see a single spammer come across the chat screen.

    If the Devs did one of those that would get rid of the spammers eventually.

  16. #196
    Community Member lathreborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomalon View Post
    Well it's time to renew this topic, again.

    Maybe one of these days turbine will get a clue....
    I know this has been talked about (alot) and many many ideas have been thrown out there as to how to stop the tells from trial accounts. ALL i ask is: turbine please pick one and put it in to game, soon!!!

    BTW best idea out there right now is: make it so tells can only go to one person at a time and put a 30 sec/ 1 minute cool down timer on tells. (like you have on the forums) This will still let noobs send tells to get ?s answered but it will slow down the platframers so much it wont be worth the time.

    what ever way you choose just PLEASE pick one and put it in game.
    a timer on tells? im guessing that you have never been playing during off peak times and trying to get a group together and had to send a tell to multiple players trying to find that 1 cleric that just so happens to want do do the quest you want to do, nor have you ever been in an ongoing conversation with another player. not saying that i have a (legal) solution to the spammer issue, but all i know is this isnt one, in fact i think this would be even more annoying than the spammers themselves!

    i still say we should just shoot them all lol

  17. #197
    Community Member lathreborn's Avatar
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    Default an update to my last post

    i think i might have an idea, tho im not sure if it will work or if i have inadvertently stolen someone elses idea, but how about this, insted of requiring only an email address to get a trial account,(yahoo, msn, hotmail, ect 2 minuets) you require a name and some other way to verify the identity of the PERSON who is setting up a trial, if and if you're account is confirmed as a spammer you are banned from the game for life.
    would this work? or am i just ahead of myself here?
    even if it dosent stop them it would probably slow them down some lol

    also is there some kind of legal action turbine can take against the websites themselves? i mean if we can sue McDonalds for having hot coffee.......
    Last edited by lathreborn; 08-25-2008 at 11:12 AM.

  18. #198
    Community Member FoxOne's Avatar
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    Default More persistent and annoying than ever

    The Right click report is useless,anonymous is useless and the tickets placed under spam do not seem to be working.Turbine,who are you working for again?


    I pay 15$ a month to play,to get out of the regular things of life.Do you really think it's any fun for anyone to log on to a game to relax and be ****ing harassed all day long every 3 minutes?
    Last edited by FoxOne; 08-25-2008 at 11:12 AM.

  19. #199
    Community Member lathreborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxOne View Post
    The Right click report is useless,anonymous is useless and the tickets placed under spam do not seem to be working.Turbine,who are you working for again?


    I pay 15$ a month to play,to get out of the regular things of life.Do you really think it's any fun for anyone to log on to a game to relax and be ****ing harassed all day long every 3 minutes?
    they are working for the almighty dollar of course lol

  20. #200
    Community Member Quanefel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lathreborn View Post
    i think i might have an idea, tho im not sure if it will work or if i have inadvertently stolen someone elses idea, but how about this, insted of requiring only an email address to get a trial account,(yahoo, msn, hotmail, ect 2 minuets) you require a name and some other way to verify the identity of the PERSON who is setting up a trial, if and if you're account is confirmed as a spammer you are banned from the game for life.
    would this work? or am i just ahead of myself here?
    None of that really matters since most use stolen credit cards anyways to set up their spamming trial accounts. It costs them like $20 for a pile of 50,000+ credit card numbers on the blackmarket. Its more effective in 2 ways. One, it costs them a whole lot less cash than paying money for all those legitimate credit cards. And two, it helps them fly under that radar of the GM's tracking them since the majority of cards stolen are from western countries, with western addresses and names.

    If their account and stolen credit card gets banned, what do the plat farming companies care? It didn't cost them a dime. It also keeps them out of the eye of the law since the card was not charged making it unlikely the owner of the card will ever know it was ever used. If people only knew even half the things those plat farming companies do, I doubt they would be so quick to defend them so much.
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