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  1. #1
    Community Member kamimitsu's Avatar
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    Jul 2006
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    Default Critique requested: Halfling Multi-class Turtle build

    This is my first attempt at doing anything moderately non-traditional in terms of class selection. This build is based partly off the dragonmarked halfling medic noted here: which takes advantage of metamagic feats to boost dragonmark healing.

    This version has been modified to *hopefully* make an intimitank AC dragonmarked burst healer. My thoughts are to dash in, grab aggro with intimidate, and shield up (with the occasional shield bash). Once the rangers range, the barbarians DPS, the arcanes one-shot, and the rogues backstab, he'll be able to assist with healing. If things get dicey, he can do a little tumbling around and/or burst heal (via dragonmarks).

    No DPS, you say... I'm fine with that. I don't expect him to kill very often, just allow others to do so. It might be a total failure, but it might also be really fun.

    I have assumed a +1 tome for each stat (though I don't know if or when I'll get those). I'm not sure if the feat selection is really in the correct order, and I haven't thought about which enhancements to take when. As for gear, Mith FP and Mith Tower Shield are a given. Hopefully some Chaosgardes, +5 Prot item etc.

    Any thoughts or suggestions would be well appreciated.

    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.85
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    Level 16 Lawful Good Halfling Male
    (7 Fighter \ 8 Paladin \ 1 Wizard) 
    Hit Points: 254
    Spell Points: 242 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 24
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 15
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
    Strength             11                    12
    Dexterity            13                    16
    Constitution         15                    20
    Intelligence         13                    14
    Wisdom               11                    12
    Charisma             15                    18
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
    Balance               2                     3
    Bluff                 3                     4
    Concentration         3                    24
    Diplomacy             3                     4
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                3                     4
    Heal                  1                    21
    Hide                  2                     5
    Intimidate            7                    24
    Jump                  5                    14
    Listen                1                     3
    Move Silently         2                     5
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     2
    Search                2                     2
    Spot                  1                     1
    Swim                  3                     3
    Tumble                3                     4
    Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    Level 3 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Healing
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark II
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark III
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
    Enhancement: Fighter Mobility I
    Enhancement: Fighter Mobility II
    Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II
    Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Jorasco Healing I
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
    Enhancement: Paladin Concentration I
    Enhancement: Paladin Heal I
    Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
    Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II

  2. #2
    Community Member wolfy42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Alameda, Ca


    Looks good although I'm not sure why you maxed your heal skill instead of UMD...with your cha even with only 1/2 your lvl in UMD skill you could reach a fairly decent UMD eventually (at least allowing you to wear equipment with a non-lg alignment like chaosguards).

    with an 18 base cha eventually you could hit 24 cha with a +6 item.......snagging you +7 to umd right there. GH + Carteach is another +7 meaning you only need a 6 base skill (achievable at lvl 9 I believe) to use any alignment/race item in the game.

    Much more useful then a heal skill I think.

    Eventually with head and higher lvl you would not even need GH to equip anything

    Another question i have is about where you are putting your stat points on lvl up. I see your currently putting them into con for extra hp........but you can already snag toughness and then take paladin (or fighter for that matter) toughness boosts for more hp.

    Wouldn't you be better off snagging cha instead for higher UMD and saving throw bonuses etc?

    I know it takes away from the whole turtle idea.......but it would actually make you more survivable as you could shrug off paralizes etc easier which are your real bane.

    Also ........improved shield bash........not really that useful in my opinion. The damge you do while shield bashing is pretty much worthless especially with your stats (your to hit is pathetic).

    I suggest replacing that with toughness OR if you don't want toughness go with improved shield mastery instead (3 more DR while shield blocking).

    Either way your way more defensive and your only keeping aggro through intimidate anyway.

    Finally it wouldn't hurt you healing that much to drop empower (this would let you take BOTH toughness and improved shield mastery).

    The reason is simple. Empower affects only your CLW/CSW spells...and only boosts them by 50%. Your already grabbing Empower healing (which boosts your heal spell as good choice) and maximize (which boosts your CLW and CSW by 100%).

    You also have the paladin devotion enhancements and can use an item that boosts your healing more as well. The 50% bonus to your CLW/CSW spells are just a tiny boost on top of everything else (I think between maximize/empower healing/devostion and item you already boost your dmg up to about a 50% increase ends up only being about a 13% increase at that point to over all healing of only your CLW and CSW spells.).

    An example...say your CLW spells normally heal for 10 hp. Maximize makes em heal for 20, empower healing makes them heal for 25, devotion boosts it to 28 and your 50% boost from an item makes it heal for 33 points total.

    Adding in empower only boosts it 5 more points to 38 hp total per CLW spell. That is a 15% increase in healing.

    Your Cure Serious wounds heal for an average of about 27 (3d8 = 12 avg +15 max = 27).

    Each will heal about 100 hp without empower and 115 with it (or there about).

    Your heal spells don't get effected by empower at all.

    So over all your healing increases by much less then 10% by taking empower.....I suggest snagging toughness instead, and later on snagging shield mastery/improved shield mastery for serious turtleage.

    Another thing to look at would be dwarf over halfling but this is a halfling forum so um.....I'm not gonna go there (anyway I love halflings and I can't bring myself to suggest going dwarf).

  3. #3
    Community Member wolfy42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Alameda, Ca


    Sorry, 1 more quick point.

    Instead of switching empower for toughness right could snag Skill Focus UMD at that early lvl (3). This would give you a UMD high enough to wear any equipment much earlier (I factored in a high Cha at a lvl you couldn't get it lvl 9 you could only reach a 20 UMD with skill focus UMD as well).

    Later on when you have more fighter or paladin levels you could swap out your SF UMD for toughness to have more hp end game when they are more important (early on your AC alone will make you almost invulnerable especially when blocking).

    UMD early on is important so you can wear chaosguards etc for the AC boosts.

    End game you may STILL want SF UMD if you are going to boost cha instead of constitution (I think that would be better). The reason for that is with good equipment you can get a high enough UMD to use heal scrolls in a pinch, and raise dead scrolls with a 95% success rate.

    As a turtle build that is a very important ability!!!

    To bad you can't make a halflings skin green and wear your shield on your back

  4. #4
    Community Member wolfy42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Alameda, Ca


    Ok....I know...way to many posts.....sorry.

    I was looking at your lvl progression and it looks like you can get your paladin charisma II enhancement at lvl 10 with the current setup you have (and changing it much would upset everything too much).

    That means with your +1 tome you get an 18 base cha by lvl 10....(1 level higher then I though before).

    Problem is you can't wear a +6 cha item till much later even RR (and you need a 20 cha to wear the RR probably!!).

    Still 4 boost to cha is as easy (free buff in middle of marketplace for 30 mins).

    So a running 22 cha is cake. If you boost cha instead of con (at least for your first 2 lvls) that nets you a 24 cha by lvl 10.

    Thats your +7 right there from even with SF UMD you could reach 20 by lvl 10 with GH + Item (7 points) + eagles splendor + golden cart.

    If you take SF UMD at lvl 3 though, you could reach 20 by lvl 8 which is probably not much past when you got your golden cart and chaos guards anyway. (numbers there are 5 base skill + 6 from cha + 4 GH + 3 SF + 3 GC=21).

    In fact I just looked at it again...the +1 to your cha from lvl 8 isn't doing anything without the +1 from paladin boost you don't need lvl need lvl 7.

    So with SF UMD you can hit a 21 UMD by lvl 7......instead of having to wait till lvl 10...well worth it in my opinion. You can then switch it out (if you want to) right before hitting lvl 12 so its still fairly cheap for toughness or empower etc.

    Also you could boost cha at lvl 4 and 8 and then con at lvl 12/16 when it will have a larger effect (I still suggest going pure cha though).

    Pure cha your eventually UMD would be something like (9 base + 10 cha (15 base + 3 enhancement + 2 tome + 6 item + 4 lvl) + 7 item (finger) + 2 luck (head) +4 GH +3 SF) 37....quite high enough to use raise dead scrolls and even to use heal scrolls with a high success rate. You can already use all arcane wands and any wands a pally can use, but this gives you access to all bard/cleric wands up to lvl 6 with a 95% success rate.

    Meanwhile your not giving up much turtledome.

    You could take your last 2 stat points as con if you want dropping your UMD by only 1 point (along with your saving throws and lay on hands etc) and snag an extra 16 hp.

    I really think the bonus cha helps more. The con gives you +1 fort...which is nice, but with both fighter and paladin levels your fort is already super don't need extra.

    The cha gives you +1 to all saving throws, +1 UMD, extra healing from lay on hands, extra smite to hit.

    Anyway I'll stop babbling now, hope this helped at least a little!!

    Sounds like a fun build to play.....and it's a halfling build which is my favorite so I wish you the best of luck.

    Sadly my halflings need to be fairly offensive in nature....I can't handle the defensive only setup, so this isn't a build for me....but it does look like a build I would love my rogue/barbarian to play with any day!! (let me know if you are on Ghalahad server!!)

  5. #5
    Community Member kamimitsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    location, location.

    Default Thanks!

    Wow... I have been waiting for quite some time for any feedback on the build. It took a while, but your reply was quite insightful and a big help! I had been waiting long enough that I eventually rolled him up and started (he's at Level 3 now).

    Good call on suggesting raising CHA at 4/8/12/16. I'm going for high saves, so that's pretty important, but I was equally worried about HP (which toughness will cover, providing I had a feat slot to get it). I didn't know if Shield Bash would be that fruitful, so I think I may take your advice and go Toughness (and not worry about boosting CON).

    As for putting skill points in UMD, again good advice. I had originally chosen heal just to help party members (and myself) at shrines, but thinking back on it the loss in shrine healing is easily made up with a few wand whips. I'll be putting more skill points to UMD, if nothing else for Raise Dead scrolls.

    As for Empower, I haven't played a healing-type before and didn't really understand the math (but your explanation made plenty of sense). I'll look at the original build and your numbers and will have to make that determination at later date (and after a bit of testing). One of the big perks of the build was that the metamagic feats work with dragonmark healing at no mana cost. Again, though, wand healing is always an alternative... whereas Shield Mastery for greater DR is not so easy to replicate via another route.

    All-in-all, exactly the kind of response I was hoping for, many thanks.

  6. #6
    Community Member wolfy42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Alameda, Ca


    My pleasure!

    And don't count out the dragonmarks they are still great!!

    You still get maximize AND empower healing boosting them for free.

    Also empower healing boosts your heal spells while just plain empower does not.

    The tiny extra boost from empower isn't really worth it on a feat starved build like this.

  7. #7
    Community Member Artierius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006

    Default Another type of tanking class...

    Hello there Kam,

    If you are interested I posted a tanking - healing halfling build in the "Dragonmarks are awsome section thread" ...

    It is a different twist on the tank but has been effective for me in leveling also.

    Hope you it find it informative if not a different view on tanking.

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