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  1. #1
    Community Member Bahamut2119's Avatar
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    Default My Dwarfen TWF BattleBard 14/2 Bard/Fighter

    32 Pnt build
    18 Bard/2 Fighter
    True Neutral

    Str: 17(+3 tome +1 Fighter Str + +6 Item + 5 Lvl +2 Rage) = 34 Final and Situational (+3 Item) +1 (from +4 Tome) +4 (Madstone) = 42
    Dex:16(+2 Tome +6 Item =24) Final +2 (from +4 Tome) = 26
    Con:16 (+2 Tome +2 Shroud Weapon +2 Rage +2 Dwarf Con +6 Item = 30) Final and Situational +2 (from +4 Tome) +8 (Madstone) = 40
    Int:9 (+1 Tome) = 10
    Wis:8 (+2 Tome +6 Item = 16) Final +2 (from +4 Tome) = 18
    Cha:8 (+3 Tome + 6 Item + 3 Enhancement = 20) (throttle back enhacements if you get a +4 cha tome)
    Quick Note: If i rerolled this guy I would do the following stats 18,15,16,8,8,8
    Hp Breakdown
    108 (Bard 18)
    20 (Fighter 2)
    200 (Con)
    20 (Heroic Durabilty)
    10 (Agents Favor)
    18 (Toughness)
    20 (Toughness Minos Legion)
    30 (Greater False Life)
    50 (Dwarfen + Fighter Toughness)
    45 (Shroud Item)
    = 525 / 650 Final and Situational

    Attack Profile
    15/15/20/25 Base
    12 Str
    1 Focus Chant
    7 Songs
    5 Weapon
    2 Enhancement
    2 Item
    1 Haste
    -5 Power attack
    -4 Large offhand weapon
    24/24/29/34
    Final and Situational
    +4 Added Strength
    28/28/33/38

    Saves
    Fort 9 (Base) +9 (Stat) +4 (GH) +5 (Resistance) = 27 (+5 Final and Situational) 32
    Reflex 11 (Base) +7 (Stat) +4 (GH) +5 (Resistance) +1 (Haste) = 28 (+1 Final) 29
    Will 11 (Base) +3 (Stat) +4 (GH) +5 (Resistance) = 23 (+1 Final) =29

    Spell Points
    475 (Base) 135(Charisma)+ 150(Wiz 7 Item) + 150 (Elemental Spell Power)+ 40 (Enhancement)= 950 (1100 if you equip a archmagi item before shrining)

    Skills
    Balance 16 (Ranks) +4 (GH) +7 (Stat) = 27
    Jump 12 (Ranks) +4 (GH) +12 (Stat) +30 (Spell) = 58
    Haggle 12 (Ranks) +4 (GH) +5 (Stat) +15 (Item) = 36 (late addition if i rerolled id probably max this)
    Concentration 23 (Ranks) +4 (GH) +5 (Shroud Item)+ 8 (Stat) = 40 (55 with hotswap necklace)
    Perform 23 (Ranks) +4 (GH) +5 (Stat) +15 (Item) = 47
    Tumble 15 (Ranks) +4 (GH) +7 (Stat) +1 (Focus Chant) +10 (Item) = 37
    Umd 23 (Ranks) +4 (GH) +5 (Stat) +3 (Item) +1 (Focus Chant)+5 (Shroud concordant item) =42

    Feats
    1: Power Attack
    2F: Weap Focus: Slash
    3: Extend
    6: Two Weapon Fighting
    9: Inproved Two Weapon Fighting
    12: Toughness
    12F: Inproved Crit: Slash
    15: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    18: Stunning Blow

    Enhancements
    Fighter Haste Boost 1
    Fighter Item Defense 1
    Bard Inspired Attack 2
    Bard Inspired Bravery 2
    Bard Inspired Damage 3
    Bard Lingering Song 4
    Warchanter
    Dwarfen Axe Attack 1
    Dwarfen Axe Attack 2
    Dwarfen Axe Damage 2
    Dwarfen Con 2
    Dwarfen Toughness 4
    Bard Energy Of The Music 2
    Bard Charisma 3
    Fighter Strength 1
    Fighter Toughness 1
    Bard Song Magic I
    Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Bard Lyric of Song I
    Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
    Spells
    Lvl 1
    Focus Chant
    Remove Fear
    Grease
    Merfolks Blessing
    Detect Secret Doors

    Lvl 2
    Rage
    Blur
    Invisibility
    Cure Mod Wounds
    Hypnotic Pattern (just to annoy people and nothing better to take)

    Lvl 3
    Remove Curse
    Good Hope
    Haste
    Displacement
    Cure Serious Wounds

    Lvl 4
    Cure Crit Wounds
    Dimension Door
    Freedom Of Movement
    Neutralize Poison

    Lvl 5
    Greater Heroism
    Cure Light Mass
    Greater Dispel Magic
    Mass Suggestion (Probably wouldn't land very often but could be helpful plus nothing better to take)

    Lvl 6
    Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass
    Heroes Feast
    Otto's Irresistible Dance

    Ideal Gear Layout (My plan only go head and change it if you prefer a different setup)
    Head: Minos Legion
    Googles: Greensteel Goggles With Wizardry VI, +1 Int Skills, +50 sp, +2 Cha Skills - +6 Wisdom, +10 Diplomacy, +10 Haggle, +100 sp, +3 Cha Skills - Concordant Opposition / Situational Visor of the Flesh Render Guards
    Neck: Torc of Prince-Raiyum-de II / Situational Golden Cartouche, Shiona's Pendant, Shintao Cord, +15 Haggle
    Trinket: Bloodstone
    Cloak: Bards Cloak
    Gloves: Triple Earth Shroud +6 Con skill +45 Hp 2/Day Dense Earth Elemental Earth grab Guard
    Bracers: Levik's Bracers
    Belt: Primary Knost's Belt / Situational: Rahkir's Sash
    Ring 1:Tumble Weed
    Ring 2: Encrusted Ring with +2 Exceptional Strength
    Boots: All Situational Feather Fall, Striding 30%, Madstone
    Weapons: Dual Mineral 2 one with acid blast another with +2 Exceptional Constitution, Lighting Strike Twin Axes both with Shock Blast, Misc common axes like vorpal ect
    Armor: Dragon Touched Vestments/Robe +5 Resistance Enervation Guard Corrosive Salt or whatever guards you like
    Shield: (Situational only) Levik's Defender
    Misc: Carry plenty shield wands, heal scrolls, resist and protect wands, Teleport and greater teleport scrolls and any other wand/scrolls you find useful you can use it all!

    Notes:
    Has 18 songs a day haven't run out yet
    Has all available songs
    Can UMD everything including heal scrolls on a 1 without anything more than his charisma item and concordant goggles!
    Can step back and aid the cleric/ favored soul in keeping the party alive/raising the dead easly then switch back to being a tank just as fast
    Goals
    1) A very self sufficient Tank
    2) A high DPS tank (Hits for 30-160)
    3) Useful Bard in any quest/group
    4) Fun to play
    I would have to say this guy met every requirement to date. Hes a blast to play so much so hes my main and will be for a long time to come. His spell points are low compared to most bards but hes not meant to buff or heal others just himself although I do tend to spend some sp helping others from time to time but thats what the torc and the concordant are there for. I get alot of spell points back just from fighting. He is a beast even though he doesn't have as many hit points as some fighter or barbarians but they also cant self heal easily nor can they cast blur, or displacement as easily or as often normally. Nor can most tanks serve in so many roles or solo as much as he can. If you doubt this build and your on Argonessen send a tell to Barnor and ill run something with you. He wont lead kill counts against good players running good tanks but he will do his part.
    Last edited by Bahamut2119; 10-18-2009 at 02:27 AM.
    Argonnessen Bringers Of Darkness Lhiwnes - Pure Human Paladin Life #47 Heroic/Epic Completionist Heroic Pl's 21-36 Iconic Pl's 5-12 Epic Pl's 19-36

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahamut2119 View Post

    Attack Profile (Single Hand will dual wield Dwarfen Axes However just cant think of what it would be TWf without oversized)
    12/12/17/22 Base
    11 Str
    4 GH
    7 Song
    5 Weapon
    1 Enhancement
    40/40/45/50
    Looks like a very solid build, TWF with dual DAxes is -4 to hit + -5 from power attack. You left out inspire greatness though which is another +2 to-hit.

    So....

    12 BAB
    11 Str
    4 GH
    9 Song
    5 Weapon
    1 Enhancement
    1 Haste
    -4 TWF
    -5 PA
    +34 First swing which is very solid.

  3. #3
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    I've been playing two bards built around almost this exact same base for a year or so. I think you'll find it to be very flexible and a lot of fun to play, from soloing to raids.

    You've been around for a while, so you know what skills and spells fit your toons best- these are just some suggestions.

    I'd consider cranking up your native Jump rather than Balance or Tumble; with an item you can have a standing 36-40 jump, which I find extremely handy. I don't have any points allocated to Balance and only fail to get up from a trip on a 1.

    I carried Remove Curse and Neutralize Poison until I found that I was selling clicky RC/NP robes/rings/gloves/cloaks on a weekly basis. Invisibility is handy at points and often needs a longer duration than a wand or clicky would provide. Break Enchantment is a good candidate to replace Neut. Poison imo, but if you don't have items NP is a fine choice.

    You can obviously rework your enhancements as you see fit, but I don't see much value in spending 6AP on the two CHA bumps if you can hit 14-16 with an item. On builds that don't do spell CC increased CHA comes down to a modicum of SP and a few ticks to your UMD, which I doubt you'll need all that much by the time you get your second or third tier greensteel item. I actually throttled all the way back to the Ring of Lies as my CHA item on both toons and don't miss much. I think Inspired Attack III is overpriced at 6AP- the same investment to get +1 to hit gives you +3 to damage, and you make up for that with Warchanter anyway. At the current cap I don't think +1 to hit is going to turn the tide. Between the CHA and IA savings you should have 12 AP to redistribute, meaning you could kick up your healing capabilities significantly(lyric of song 2, lyric of incredible song 2, song magic 3). Combine that with a swap to potency and Healing Lore items(a weapon set w/the Invaders mace and a simple Sup Potency V club are all I use) before you kick off your heals, and you should be able to up your healing acumen with minimal investment.

    Good luck, I think you'll have a lot of fun with the build.

  4. #4
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    Mine is only 7 Bard/1 Fighter so far, but those are solid basics you got there. Spells and Enhancements can be tweaked to taste.

  5. #5
    Community Member Westerner's Avatar
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    An aggressive low-CHA build with plenty of melee power. Wondering if you'll run short of SP for short-term buffs (rage/displacement/haste) until you get your shroud item. Please post your experience. Thanks.
    \x/es
    Torgomund 17/1 Rngr/Rog . . Thundorf 16/2/2 Bard/Ftr/Barb . . Zarron 10/2 Wiz/Rog
    RIP Class Forums 3/9/2011

  6. #6
    Community Member Delt's Avatar
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    Looks like a solid build - I didn't look closely at your enh and spells though...just a quick glance. Probably better off dropping the CW spells and just UMD what you need - you don't have the SP to cast healing.

  7. #7
    Community Member skraus1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EinarMal View Post
    Looks like a very solid build, TWF with dual DAxes is -4 to hit + -5 from power attack. You left out inspire greatness though which is another +2 to-hit.

    So....

    12 BAB
    11 Str
    4 GH
    9 Song
    5 Weapon
    1 Enhancement
    1 Haste
    -4 TWF
    -5 PA
    +34 First swing which is very solid.
    Gh doesn't stack with songs, so it's only +30.

    Zharm-Zharty-Zhugly-Zhaffini-Zhaffy-Zhallia
    Now playing on Thelanis because Turbines loves to nerf things.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by skraus1 View Post
    Gh doesn't stack with songs, so it's only +30.
    Heh....yeah good catch jeez...

  9. #9
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    How is the calculation done for sp?

    Looking at your base number it seems kinda high compared to what I see in game on my bard with 24 cha. Gonna have to drop my cha item next time I'm on and see what his sp are with only 18 cha.

  10. #10
    Community Member skraus1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    How is the calculation done for sp?

    Looking at your base number it seems kinda high compared to what I see in game on my bard with 24 cha. Gonna have to drop my cha item next time I'm on and see what his sp are with only 18 cha.
    http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Spell_point

    This seems to be accurate.

    Zharm-Zharty-Zhugly-Zhaffini-Zhaffy-Zhallia
    Now playing on Thelanis because Turbines loves to nerf things.
    LEGION

  11. #11
    Community Member Bahamut2119's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the tips and suggestions so far this is my first bard to make it past lvl 4 so i really know jack about em. Im taking notes and will test things out if i like it ill make it a perm change. This toon was made up in the char gen program and posted in a diffent form to make it easyer to read so I hope those sp calcs are right.
    Argonnessen Bringers Of Darkness Lhiwnes - Pure Human Paladin Life #47 Heroic/Epic Completionist Heroic Pl's 21-36 Iconic Pl's 5-12 Epic Pl's 19-36

  12. #12
    Community Member Bahamut2119's Avatar
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    Been a long time since i posted here but i though id give an update to those who help critique this build. I have messed with the spells a bit to suit my needs better and the groups i run with and so far so good. I was forced to take 3 months off from the game but since i returned ive gotten him to lvl 15 and I couldn't be happier with the way hes turning out. Im acctully having more fun with him then most of my other characters most of the time. I did leave the heal spells in for a quick reaction to a incapped party member and to top myself off.

    As far as my Cha goes im leaving that the same for now I heal myself with heal scrolls so until i push past a 40 standing umd I cant afford to throttle it back. As far as spell points go it appears i was off slightly on my figures I actually have a little more than i thought but so far I am running short on sp during longer quests. But I do not yet have my shroud goggles made when I went into the shroud I didn't have time to make him a set and I always complete. Better chance on getting the 7 supreme shards I'm gonna need and the ingredients to make my airguard necklace, Twin min 2 daxes, and my concordant opposition goggles i have planned. Im sure once the goggles are done ill have enough spell pints to carry myself though a quest since the only buffs i do for others generally are haste and rage altho I will pass fm and gh occasionally if asked nice enough.

    So far in combat he does fairly well I only have to shut off patt for elite orthon defenders and the occasional red/purple named but hes also no quite capped out yet so who knows i might find myself never shutting it off. He is averaging 30 pnt non crits and 120 pnt crits with maxed closer to 40/130 witch im finding is very nice. Hes defently not the dps king and will never be but he still don't have a problem taking down most trash mobs alone. And he still has a little to go he has most of his song enhancements missing the last tier of the to hit part of his inspire, at 16th lvl he will also go up 1 more on his bab, and missing 1 pnt of str so end game he should be hitting a bit better for a little more damage.

    As far as I can tell his weak point is his hit points but that's why i plan on doing a airguard necklace with +45 hit points to bring him up to 426 with the possible max of 442 with a +3 tome. For a character running around with no ac to speak of (its a 25 on a good day) maxing out at 442 is still to low for my taste but much better than he is now. I tend to run my characters with no ac 500+ but with a 1d6 hit die that's pretty hard to do with out giving up allot.
    Argonnessen Bringers Of Darkness Lhiwnes - Pure Human Paladin Life #47 Heroic/Epic Completionist Heroic Pl's 21-36 Iconic Pl's 5-12 Epic Pl's 19-36

  13. #13
    Community Member Nick_RC's Avatar
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    442hp is heaps jeiner with full time displacement and stoneskin and self healing ifind 390 more than adequate - u just need ot knw when to back off and reapply the goodies. I.E arry ignores displ so when ur cold shield is out hit it again as the damage taken is ALOT less when meleeing. Iwouldnt go for the airguard either it sucks - got tri earth if you just wanna single upgrade - auto crits with DA are nice - its what i got on shake. Also +6 to concentration is ice for those midfight arry hastes/cold shield etc. If ur still REALLY worried about ur hp add twin min 2 DA's with +1 and +2 respectively con bumps - ul either save 4ap OR be at an even number. once you get min 2 you can pretty much drop impr crit...the only other thing i find myself using on shake is a vorpal...and thats VERY occasionally as i hate them ;p.pick up something else maybe umd focus until u get ur item...maybe oversized...doubt ul need it tho with DA enh and no wf pa enh... theres lots you could do..maybe MT if you found you were lite on sp, emp healing if u arnt and think you can do more with ur sp pool...-

    As far as having sp for a quest - i got 817 or something on shake which is low...just remember its not obligatory to GH everyone.... in most cases good hope is nearly as good for a fraction of the cost. Most of our guys have girds anyhow. Not sure what else ur doing with ur sp i normally keep it purely for hste displ rage. thats alot of sp for those in a quest - Also get urself the torque - equalls unlimited sp on this guy - grab hound bracers and play like a battle cleric without having to heal others

    N
    Last edited by nick_robinsonchia; 09-25-2008 at 07:42 AM.
    GROAN-1 (Melee/Casting Horc FVS)

  14. #14
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Two minor changes to consider:

    Drop Dex by 1 (this means you require a +2 tome to get to the top TWF feat). Spend the two build points conserved this way to up Charisma slightly.

    Secondly, add Mass Suggestion as a 5th level spell. It doesn't matter that you'll only land it on two mobs in a pack of ten - that's generally what you want anyway. You won't be using it to army-build, but for crowd control, it's pretty good. My warchanter, Cacophonous, does just that with a base Cha of 12.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  15. #15
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    I have a toon with a very similar build.

    Definitely drop DEX by 1 since you have tomes. CHA will help you a lot more.

    Also, when you get your mineral 2s, you will want to swap IC for OTWF.

    On this kind of character you will find that a tier 2 +/- shroud item will be most helpful.

    According to most people on the bard board, this toon cannot possibly exist, because bards are weak at low levels.
    Last edited by geezee; 09-25-2008 at 09:07 AM.

  16. #16
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geezee View Post
    According to most people on the bard board, this toon cannot possibly exist, because bards are weak at low levels.
    Which we both know is a load of tosh.

    If anything, I'd say Bards are one of the strongest classes out of the gate.
    UMD, mez abilities (which is a *huge* advantage starting off), spells that allow further mez, heals, stat buffs, speed boosts, and several other goodies, and a melee BAB that isn't that far behind the true meleers until later levels (at, for example, level 6, you're looking at +4 BAB vs. +6/+1 vs. a true melee class. Not a huge difference. Noticeable, sure, but not crippling by any means).

    Sure, at higher levels this becomes more pronounced, as the the true melees have greater BAB and get goodies such as insane rages and crit multipliers, or a crapton of feats to play with, or Tempest, self-buffs, etc.

    But at low levels I'd argue my Bard was the strongest out of all the classes I've tried.
    I think the misconception is a result of people rolling classes like Bard, and instantly wanting to TWF dual flaming khopeshes with power attack on and look cool, but without the proper feats and the BAB to back it up so they end up being bloody useless in a fight.

    A smartly played Bard is something altogether different (and deadly).

  17. #17
    Founder Freeman's Avatar
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    Well, the question was whether a brand new player with no knowledge of DDO should play a cleric or bard first. Most people recommended he start with a cleric first, since bards can be more difficult to play. Apparently, Geezee couldn't grasp that concept, so the only meaning he could twist out of that was that bards are weak. Of course, the fact that no one actually said that, and that he personally stated that "bards could be tough for new players" didn't change his mind

    As for the build, I only have one question on the enhancements. Did you end up taking Inspired Attack III? Six action points for just +1 to attack is fairly steep. You could drop that, pick up Dwarven Axe Attack II(4 AP) to keep the same attack bonus if you wanted, and still have an extra 2 action points to spend. Or if you found that it wasn't necessary, use all six action points elsewhere. I know someone else recommended not taking IA III back when you first posted this, so I was curious what you ended up doing.
    Freeman - Human Bard - Thelanis Fulfilling my duty to the ladies of Stormreach
    Yuvben(Halfling Rogue), Acana(Drow Sorcerer), Walket(Human Cleric), Mahoukami (WF Wizard), Knicapper(Horc Fighter), Pyetr(Human Bard), Mazinger (WF Barb), and Belcar(Halfling Ranger).

  18. #18
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    ^^ Agreed on both.

    I and II for almost every enhancement on any class, you can justify spending the SPs.
    When it comes to III and IV, it has to be *really* good to spend 6 SPs that could be spent elsewhere.

    For example, I'd lower Dwarven Toughness IV to II and maybe up something else since you won't be tanking (or shouldn't be!). Fighter Haste or Fighter Item Defense are both awful nice for 1 SP.

  19. #19
    Founder Freeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerendil View Post
    I and II for almost every enhancement on any class, you can justify spending the SPs. When it comes to III and IV, it has to be *really* good to spend 6 SPs that could be spent elsewhere.

    For example, I'd lower Dwarven Toughness IV to II and maybe up something else since you won't be tanking (or shouldn't be!). Fighter Haste or Fighter Item Defense are both awful nice for 1 SP.
    Actually, Toughness is probably the only enhancement line where the cost/benefit ratio is always the same, at 5HP/1AP. As long as you can spare the AP, I'd always max those out. Even if you're not tanking, those extra HP can always help out.
    Freeman - Human Bard - Thelanis Fulfilling my duty to the ladies of Stormreach
    Yuvben(Halfling Rogue), Acana(Drow Sorcerer), Walket(Human Cleric), Mahoukami (WF Wizard), Knicapper(Horc Fighter), Pyetr(Human Bard), Mazinger (WF Barb), and Belcar(Halfling Ranger).

  20. #20
    Founder T-MacForMVP's Avatar
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    Your probably better off taking OTWF over Weapon Focus slashing... weapon focus is only +1 and you said you would like to dual wield D. Axes, you wont get the penalty in the off hand which would make your off hand to-hit higher,

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