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  1. #1

    Default Panzer Warden (a build by request)

    [CENTER]This build is from Sigtrent's build request thread

    Build Name: Panzer Warden
    Author: Sigfried Trent
    Requester: Cambo
    Last Updated: 07/14/10

    Key Words [Ranger, TWF, Pick, Tempest, Warforged]

    Objectives
    The requester wanted a warforged TWF build using picks and bows. He’d mentioned having a wizard splash for healing in his request but in later discussion he decided to drop that. For the re-make I’m going closer to his revision of my request with a pretty standard tempest DPS build.

    Design
    I didn’t do much that was really creative here. It starts out with straight tempest ranger, takes fighter to grab some mid level combat feats, then settles back into a pretty standard ranger pattern.

    Because were TWF with power attack and power attack enhancements it seemed a good idea to crank up attack as well as damage where possible. Favored enemy is heavily leveraged here and crits with the picks should be damned impressive.

    I also tried to get as much healing as possible here without taking feats for it. It won’t be amazing but you can top yourself off and you aren’t too hard for others to heal. Will saves also receive some attention so that on balance saves are fairly decent all around on the build.

    Hit points are pretty hefty for a ranger and I took pretty much everything available for it. AC and other defenses are decent but nothing special. This isn’t really a tank but it can take some heat while it dishes out the beatings.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Neutral Good Warforged Male
    (2 Fighter \ 18 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 356
    Spell Points: 252 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 19
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             18                    26
    Dexterity            14                    18
    Constitution         16                    20
    Intelligence          8                    10
    Wisdom               10                    12
    Charisma              6                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               4                    14
    Bluff                -2                    -1
    Concentration         3                     5
    Diplomacy            -2                    -1
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle               -2                    -1
    Heal                  0                     2
    Hide                  5                    19
    Intimidate           -2                    -1
    Jump                  8                    18
    Listen                0                     1
    Move Silently         5                    19
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -1                    17
    Search               -1                     0
    Spot                  4                    24
    Swim                  4                     8
    Tumble                3                     5
    Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
    Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistence Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
    Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
    Enhancement: Warforged Construct Thinking I
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Warforged Construct Thinking II
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest III
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion IV
    Play
    This is a pretty aggressive build, either with the bow or the picks. Get in there and tear up the enemy. Try not to pull to many critters on you at once though. Pick one target and destroy it, then move to the next. This build can solo fairly well as all rangers can, although it may be expensive to heal yourself at higher levels.

    Variations
    A 28pt version is pretty easy as none of the feats are stat dependent.
    Last edited by sigtrent; 07-14-2010 at 07:52 PM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Cambo's Avatar
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    Thanks Sig..looks neat.

    Wondering though how much the Wiz spash is costing me...

    If I was to swap Ftr for the Wiz and take Healers Friend to help compensate and stick with regular cure wands
    Loose Extend
    Loose Wands - Repair M/L/S/C, Stone Skin, Shield
    Loose some Mana

    Gain Ftr Class Feat
    Gain 1 BAB
    Gain 4 pts for stats from dropping intel by 4
    +1 (3pts) rounding to 30 (1 spend piont from int spare)
    + a couple of HP
    +2 to to hit with melee is nice....(1 from BAB 1 from Str)

    Or same Benefit from Lvl Ranger except
    Loose Ftr Feat
    Gain +1 Ac from Barksin...

    With the spare 1 ability spend extra from intel change above point Drop Wis to 9 use +1 wis tome to round to 10 wis giving 4 pts to increase dex to 16 for +1 hit with bow, +1 reflex save and dex skills...(already at Max AC for armour...)
    go with the put on magi item for mana then remove after buff to cope with lower mana pool.

    Also...
    Is 48 AC worth the 2 feats at Giant Hold and above ? I seem to think so..
    ..but If I dropped the Mith Plate and Mith Fluidity, went with the +1 dex option above and 2 Weapon Defense I would only be down 1 AC....and up 1 feat....

    I am concenred that -7 from power attack will make me miss too often at end game. Is this a valid concern? I thought the to hit values are already comprimised by a couple to get both bow and Melee together...without finessing.

    Thanks a lot for the build....it has made me think a lot about what I want and how to get there...
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  3. #3
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    I believe you want to maintain an about +35 tohit on elite content with no bard present. Its hard to say if the PA enhancements are a gain or a loss when it comes to that.

    Nice build though.
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  4. #4

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    I think the wizard level is definately an optional thing. A "I like to click on suff" choice over a "I want to kick but" stance. The other consideration is how much you like to play solo. The wizard level is definately a solo freindly kind of choice but in a group the wand healing is probably not so vital.

    I'm not sold on the AC = useless argument. I suppose it depends on how you play. I'm a fairly casual player, I do about as many runs of quests on normal as I do on elite. I think the no AC crowd tends to play on elite only and indeed the hardest quests on elite are pretty unforgiving of moderate AC. But I've run around in the vale with mid 40s ac and I get hit far-far less than mid 30s which is what most of my characters run with. (I have one character than can get to mid 40s and one who can run low 40s.)

    At low levels good AC is golden. At high levels, its just one more layer of defense that helps you stay alive but is no guarantee. That's my take at any rate. As a builder its just kind of fun to try and maximize different character values.

    Personaly if I dropped Wizard I'd go for another fighter level and try to get weapon specilization, probably right after getting ranger 11.

    The power attack may be overkill. It really kind of depends on the enemy you are up against since AC really does vary quite a bit. In general my fighter type characters don't often miss except on the really high AC targets. Personaly I use power attack when I have decent buffs going and just kind of play it by ear. If I miss a lot with it on, I turn it off, if not I leave it on. I always use it when a bard is around to do inspire courage.

    I think most DPS type characters should have it as a feat. The enhamcenemtn is pretty give or take. I've only ever personaly used it on my dwarven bard-barian who leaves power attack on pretty much all the time, but he has his own warchanter buffs going all the time and can self cast greater heroism.
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  5. #5
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    Just curious, but why 3 fighter levels Sig? you could go with a 13th ranger and 2 fighter, maintain the same amount of feats and boost up your spells a bit better.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muirtach View Post
    Just curious, but why 3 fighter levels Sig? you could go with a 13th ranger and 2 fighter, maintain the same amount of feats and boost up your spells a bit better.
    I didn't really decide on 3 fighter until I was almost finished with the build. I tend to have a general game plan and then use the character builder a level at a time to see how things are working out. (and at the end it has HP and SP totals which are a pain to calculate)

    So I was looking at the last level...
    Ranger for +1 barkskin and longer lasting spells
    Fighter for Armor mastery

    AC was a wash, but I wanted to make use of the dex I already had. The HP really wasn't a serious factor. I think mostly I was looking ahead to level 17 and thinking fighter 4 offered that nice weapon specilization and was more in a hurry to get there than to ranger 14 which doesn't have much happening. So I'd take 17 as fighter and 18 as ranger.

    That was my thinking although really eaither one is about as good a choice as the other. I hadn't planned on fighter 3, it just kind of occured to me at the very end.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Cambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigtrent View Post
    I'm not sold on the AC = useless argument. I suppose it depends on how you play. I'm a fairly casual player, I do about as many runs of quests on normal as I do on elite. I think the no AC crowd tends to play on elite only and indeed the hardest quests on elite are pretty unforgiving of moderate AC. But I've run around in the vale with mid 40s ac and I get hit far-far less than mid 30s which is what most of my characters run with. (I have one character than can get to mid 40s and one who can run low 40s.)

    At low levels good AC is golden. At high levels, its just one more layer of defense that helps you stay alive but is no guarantee. That's my take at any rate. As a builder its just kind of fun to try and maximize different character values.
    Just for feedback If I run around the vale on my rogue with AC of 49 The rats, dogs and scorpions dont hit at all...maybe on a 20 but I can melee them to death wih no sneak attack and take no damage. (tested this recently to see what AC is effective..) The trogs dont seem much better but do hit occasionally, the trolls kick my but unless I use a paralyzer or banisher....

    So I definitely see the worth of High 40ish ac in normal etc...as you said hard and elite pretty well own AC below 50...
    I guess that comes because some people can hit 60-70 odd AC and if mobs couldnt hit them then those quests would become easy for the right build...
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  8. #8
    Community Member Cambo's Avatar
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    Just planning out this guy now to start levelling
    Going to drop Wiz... I've got a capped battle bard if I want self sufficiency.
    So this changes the guidelines given to Sig.

    I think - (because ive never done it before) Im happy to leave wis at 9 +1 tome 10 and use an item for wisdom and magi item for mana.

    I'll get +1 BAB

    I'll put 1 intel point into str to hit 30 and give +1 to Hit / Dam in melee
    I'll put 2 points into dex and get +1 hit with bows + 1 refelx save
    I'll get +1 AC from Barkskin due to higher range.

    Drop Mith plate and mith fluidity (11AC) to Dex bonus and 2WDefense only (9AC)
    With Barkskin +1 I'll be down 1AC

    With the extra feat take weapon prof piercing for +1 hit

    I'll be using docent of quickening so that'll alsodrop AC by 1...but will give extra DPS.
    Pretty sure it (docent of quickening) will strack speed wise with tempest but not haste
    If i'm hasted I'll switch to a +5 docent

    I'll loose a few skills but will skimp on concentration.

    All up +3 to hit with melee..+2 on bow -1/2 AC a few extra hp..less mana no Repair crit wands...
    Ill take some healers friend to shore up the wand differential.

    The + to hit will let me keep Power attack on more often for more damage...

    Feedback on the changes welcome...
    Sarlona: Cambo (14 Rogue / 1 Fighter) - Boldair (15 Bard / 1 Fighter)
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